Best Crate for a 1970?

[Evolution1980]

Addendum to my message above:
Also, when ya get the 454HO (versus the ZZ383), you're getting a BIG BLOCK, so your room to grow is also greatly increased. And the compression is still lower than the small block! That makes the $900 price difference even more tantalizing!

(Damn, I may have just convinced myself of my next upgrade!!! Hahahah) :L :L

 

[Bill75]

Addendum to my message above:
Also, when ya get the 454HO (versus the ZZ383), you're getting a BIG BLOCK, so your room to grow is also greatly increased.

The weight on the front springs might be increased also and may require an upgrade.

 

[Koop]

I pulled this up regarding the Aluminum heads.

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/sto...5HP-HO-with-Aluminum-Heads-24502609-P4C0.aspx

It's a big box of fun!

Yeah, you still have to buy wires, rebuild and rejet your carb, buy the right pullys, new motor mounts etc...But this is a great place to jump off! I love Big Blocks, I just didn't want to go to any extra trouble.

 

[Tom Bryant]

looking at all of those engines is enough to confuse anyone. For the price why would anyone buy a LS7 when a LS2 or even a LS6 with a Pro-Charger would make more power for a fraction of the price?

 

[AKRAY4PLAY]

build a 406. you should be able to find a 400 sb at the junk yards for about $300. get the lower end rebuilt with all forged parts, machine work and assembled for around $3000. spend another $1200 on a good set of aluminum heads, $300 for intake and distributor. maybe $500 for misc parts and you're set. the 400 sb is exactly the same as the original sb, so the oil dipstick will be correctly located on the driver's side. the newer crate motors all have passenger side dipsticks. you should be able to make a very healthy and very drivable small block with big block power. easy to make 500 hp and 525 tq for your budget.

the newer stuff is nice for fuel injection, one piece rear mains, etc. but it sounds like you are going for an old school clone of sorts. the 400 sb is a perfect sleeper and costs the same to build as a 350 sb. going big block you will need to change exhaust, front springs, acc brackets, motor mounts, etc.

if you decide on the 400 or want more info, just ask. there are a couple little quarks with the 400 that need attention, but knowing about them eleminates any problems you will encounter. Brian.

 

[Jack]

build a 406. you should be able to find a 400 sb at the junk yards for about $300. get the lower end rebuilt with all forged parts, machine work and assembled for around $3000. spend another $1200 on a good set of aluminum heads, $300 for intake and distributor. maybe $500 for misc parts and you're set. the 400 sb is exactly the same as the original sb, so the oil dipstick will be correctly located on the driver's side. the newer crate motors all have passenger side dipsticks. you should be able to make a very healthy and very drivable small block with big block power. easy to make 500 hp and 525 tq for your budget.Brian.

If building from scratch & have both tools & knowhow, I AGREE ... I have a 406 underway ... just got block back from shop. But the thread-starter (JimC) was asking about crate ... I first suggested LSx crate ... then JimC gave us a budget cap of $6K ... that nixed the LSx ... so I picked HT383 crate ... that's my "tail" and I'm sittin' on it.

Brian, how about some tips on those 400 quirks to look out for? I begin assembly of my 406 within days. Have flattops, 6" rods, freshened OE 400 crank (all balanced) ... no heads (maybe afr) or cam (budget=hyd flat tap) yet. Block baked, blasted, torqueplate-honed 30over, decked to 9.015, NO line hone needed. I'd love to run EFI ... but there's a budget again ... have Qjet & intake.

Apparently, JimC is starting with an empty engine bay, questionable 400 trans & $6K. Around here at least, BBC pickins' in junkyards are mighty slim ... sbc stuff plentiful. Whether sbc or BBC ... crate or build ... JimC will probably need lotsa bracketry, pulleys etc ... I suggest the sbc peripherals will be more available & cheaper.

I like BBC too ... this summer I built a number-matched 396/350HP to OE spec for a friend's 67 SS camaro ... it's the motor that came in the car ... beautiful 95% restored car ... runs-drives sweet (as new) ... for sale. I'm certainly no BBC expert ... but I know a thing or two about BBC parts availability ... at least in my neck o' the woods. But I do know where a complete well-worn, plain jane throttle-body 454 is for about $1200.
JACK:gap

 

[AKRAY4PLAY]

Jack,
i'll PM you to avoid hyjacking the thread.

Jim,
if you want the info, PM or email me and i'll be glad to pass it on.

 

[Evolution1980]

build a 406. you should be able to find a 400 sb at the junk yards for about $300. get the lower end rebuilt with all forged parts, machine work and assembled for around $3000. spend another $1200 on a good set of aluminum heads, $300 for intake and distributor. maybe $500 for misc parts and you're set. the 400 sb is exactly the same as the original sb, so the oil dipstick will be correctly located on the driver's side. the newer crate motors all have passenger side dipsticks. you should be able to make a very healthy and very drivable small block with big block power. easy to make 500 hp and 525 tq for your budget.

For the sake of conversation... What is the cost comparison between building up a junkyard engine and simply buying an equivalent crate engine? Unless the price difference was significant (like, over $1250), I like the idea of a crate engine because 1) ya have a warranty on it. 2) It's brand spanking new. There's no question it's a solid piece of equipment. Don't have to worry about picking up an old block and then paying the money to have it 'cleaned & prepared' only to find issues with it. 3) You plug & play, as opposed to the time required to go out find all the parts, have them all cleaned, prep'd, blueprinted, blah blah blah. Basically, the time required for a crate engine is fractional to that of building it yourself. You make a 10 minute phone call and then it's on your doorstep 5 days later. Done deal. As opposed to driving all over looking for this and that, then having more parts ordered in from here or there, then assembling, double-checkin everything, hoping you got it all correct, etc etc etc, and then still not fully knowing your power numbers until you're on a dyno. With me, time is money. The required time to do this all yourself (assuming the proper knowledge is there) and then possibly run into issues because you're dealing with a used piece of equipment... this would all need to have a significant financial discount over the ease and piece of mind of a crate engine. But that's just me. It's the same logic I used when I was deciding years ago whether to rebuild or just buy new. Obviously, I stayed with the idea of a crate engine.

Back to the original question, have you figured out what building your engine has cost versus the equivalent crate engine? (I didn't have the choice given my lack of knowledge and time available.)

 

[Evolution1980]

looking at all of those engines is enough to confuse anyone. For the price why would anyone buy a LS7 when a LS2 or even a LS6 with a Pro-Charger would make more power for a fraction of the price?

I can only assume it would be for overall longterm reliability? I've always been under the impression that if you can make the power normally aspirated versus having to use induction, you're better off. I would think you'd have a better foundation for big power if you can do it normally aspirated. I would also think that efficiency has something to do with it.
Also, ya gotta figure in the price you pay to have the newest toy on the block. It's all new technology and that cost has to be recouped somewhere...

 

[steelblue75]

ZZ4 stated HP say's 355, is that chp ?

 

[Evolution1980]

ZZ4 stated HP say's 355, is that chp ?

Assuming you are referring to "HP at the crank", then yes. There is no way for manufacturers to rate engines any other way, since the overall ratings will change (lower) for every different vehicle it goes into...

 

[AKRAY4PLAY]

Evo,
to answer your question about building a junkyard motor, it is cheaper. most guys that build their own motor, use better internals than what is offered in crates. the cost is the usually the same for a better product minus the warrenty. but building clone motors of crates, you can usually save $1500 or so. or you can build a stronger motor for the same cost and have it better match the rest of your set-up.

 

[banjoey]

Dec issue of "Corvette Fever" pg39 features Smeding Performance crate engine: 350 Magnum @ 350 hp/390 lb-ft torque;blueprinted/9:01 compression..regular pump gas/2 yr warranty. $2995.00. You can call
(916) 6380899 or www.smedingperformance.com. Location: Rancho Cordova, CA.
Banjoey

 

[RodsnRides]

You may want to check these folks out. They have built me two 383's. One, an original '70 Impala 300/350 motor, I installed in my '70 Chevelle wagon and it runs (ran) great. I have since pulled it, and am putting it into my 'Vette this winter (since the 'Vette dropped a valve...:eyerole). The other one is the ORIGINAL '70 wagon motor I just had refreshed and built into a 383. It goes back in this Spring. I like their work, they offer a warranty, and can rebuild your junkyard dog or provide you with a crate engine. Decent prices, no sales tax (I love Montana), I think they still offer free shipping as well. By the way-the first 383 dyno'd at 344 hp, 436 ft. lbs.-Edelbrock performer cam and intake, pocket ported stock heads (882, I think).

http://www.dandkmotorsports.com/html/engines.php

I prefer simple, carbureted, I can work on it stuff. The other options have merit, but if you've got $6K, then one of these and a tranny refresh, with a suspension look over (shocks, bushings), with perhaps room for a brake refresh can ALL be had for your 6 large-and you will have a very enjoyable driver that will last for some time...my thoughts, anyways. Good luck on what you decide.

Rick

 

[JimC]

Well guys, thanks for all the advice. The wife and I had a new ZZ4 delivered to the house yesterday. Now it's time to get the trans out of the car for a rebuild, and start figuring out all the bits and pcs. needed to get the motor finished and into the car. Can't wait to get started! -J

 

[Tom Bryant]

Good choice. I think you will be very happy with your new engine. Did you check to see what transmission is in the car yet?

Tom

 

[Bill75]

I agree also.............good choice! Keep us posted on the progress.

 

[Evolution1980]

Certainly no arguments here on your choice of engines! I'd suggest checking out someplace like Summit Racing or someplace similiar. Putting some chrome valve covers on it really makes it look better than the blah black ones it ships with.

 

[Koop]

Great choice, lots of cool toys in that crate!

Have fun.

I failed to rebuild the trans (AMA, against mechanics advice) in my car a couple of engines ago...The fire that followed was a *****. Don't ingore the radiator either.

 

[Evolution1980]

Note with the ZZ4... You may need to swap out water pumps, as the one that came on my ZZ4 had too long a neck and it would have put the fan in the radiator. If you do have to swap out water pumps, it's a good time to replace the old OEM with a betterm hi-perf model. And then since it's new, toss a nice coat of laquer on it to keep it rust free and purty lookin'... I have a nice blue, semi-gloss finish on mine.