Bitting the bullet again

[Marv02]

Lot of you Know I built a new motor for my 86 about a year ago.
I has ben a pain In you know what.
But after working most of the bugs out of it I still fighting transmission problems.
I have a new trans on the way so I started to pull the trans out getting everything ready for it I also still have a oil leak that I thought was comming from the rear of the motor.
I also found out when pulling the trans the converter they said they put in the car is not the one I paid for thats a whole diffrent story.
The oil leak from the timing cover just spreading to the rear of the motor.
So as long as I have to pull the front of the motor apart I am going to put a hotter cam in it the one in there now is a Howards 214/214 .447 /.477 lift at 290/290 Duration with 111 CL.
I also have 195 Trick flow heads and 24# injectors with 9.75 to 1 compression.
307 rear end.
Edelbrock Hi Flow intake and SPL runners.
I was thinking to go with a LPE 219/219 Cam I read with a good tune It should pass smog.
Or is there a better choice fo a new cam if so what I need to pass CA smog laws.
I looked at the LT4 and the ZZ9 I just dont want to make anouther mistake get this combo right.
I also just order a new set of 1.6 CC full roller rockers Steel I want to get rid of my 1.5 CMH brand rockers.
I know I have to change springs for the extra lift of a hotter cam do the swap from flat tappet to a roller cam at least I dont have to worry about using Zinc in my oil with a roller cam.
Ater the motor rebuild I felt the motor was weak off the bottem I know the trans did not have enough stall to it the guy told me I had a 2200 stall but I think more like a 1600 what still is the best with a 219/219 cam is 2500 stall enough.
and will the 219/219 be a good working combo for me it a DD for now.

 

[boomdriver]

Lot of you Know I built a new motor for my 86 about a year ago.

I has ben a pain In you know what.

But after working most of the bugs out of it I still fighting transmission problems.
I have a new trans on the way so I started to pull the trans out getting evrything ready for it I also still have a oil leak that I tought was comming from the rear of the motor.

I also found out when pulling the trans the converter they said they put in the car is not the one I paid for thats a whole diffrent story.

The oil leak from the timing cover just spreading to the rear of the motor.

So as long as I have to pull the front of the motor apart I am going to put a hotter cam in it the one in there now is a Howards 214/214 .447 /.477 lift at 290/290 Duration with 111 CL.

I also have 195 Trick flow heads and 22# injectors with 9.75 to 1 compression.
307 rrar end.

Edenbrock Hi Flow intake and SPL runners.

I was thinking to go with a LPE 219/219 Cam I read with a good tune It should pass smog.

Or is there a better choice fo a new cam if so what I need to pass CA smog laws.
I looked at the LT4 and the ZZ9 I just dont want to make anouther mistake get this combo right aagin.

I also just order a new set of CC full roller rockers Steel I want to get rid of my CMH brand rockers.

I know I have to change springs for the extra lift of a hotter cam do the swap from flat tappet to a roller cam at least I dont have to worry about using Zinc in my oil with a roller cam.

Ater the motor rebuild I felt the motor was weak off the bottem I know the trans did not have enough stall to it the guy told me I had a 2200 stall but I think more like a 1600 what still is the best with a 219/219 cam is 2500 stall enough.

and will the 219/219 be a good working combo for me it a DD for now.

Your car has a problem even breaking the tires loose from a standing start, right?
Its flat. Thats why.
From what I see, and its just my opinion, is too much cam, too low stall, too little fuel and a mix-match of performance parts.

Its all good stuff, but not together.
If you want to drive the streets and feel the pulling power, go to a lower stall speed. Stall is where the trans "locks" the drive train and transmits all the engines torque, or effort to the wheels. If the stall is TOO high, then half the power gets turned into heat and wasted. No pull.
If the stall is too low, too far under the real power band of the engine, then the motor bogs until it gets to the rpm where the power starts. (I've done that myself)
The rule is something like this...
The hotter or longer the duration gets a higher stall because there will be less and less low end for the longer the duration. If the power band starts at 3000 then you want a stall of 2500-3000 so none of the power is lost to slipping as it spins into the power range.
I think stock stall on a C4 was around 900 rpm because of the exceptional low end torque.They wanted you to feel every bit of the pulling power, so the trans was locked in at just over idle.

A simple mistake like a 3000 rpm stall in a stock 84 Corvette would have ruined the cars place in history....

The inj at 22 lbs/hr are stock size in a motor thats got a BUNCH better breathing. If it were me, I'd go to at least 24, maybe 26 and vary the pressure to find the best performance. Right now it gets all the air it wants, but its limited on the available fuel.

Its just my opinion, but I'd get bigger injectors, a dyno print out of the power band, THEN buy a converter thats appropiate for the kind of driving that you want to do.
People run around babbling about "I got me a 3500 stall speed converter" and such BS tells me there are more happy salesmen at the trans shop than there are customers on the streets...

Most people have no frigging idea of what 'stall speed' actually means or how to match it to their motor. Everytime you make a major change in the engines performance, the stall speed changes, and so should the converter if you;re looking for peak performance AND fuel economy. Wasted power from a free-wheeling torque converter between stop lites benefits NOBODY except oil company execs...
BTW...whenever there is higher stall speed, all that energy below that number turns into extreme heat, and is the #1 killer of adult transmissions in the United States... Get a good cooler or a spare tranny.

 

[Marv02]

On the other fourm they are telling me dont change the cam just put a good trans in with a good conveter then I should be a lot happyer with the set up.
But I hate to spend $450.00 for a custom made chip just to find out It still not what I am looking for.
I have a performance chip now not a custom chip.
I wish I knew where to get a good custom chip for less money I still think $450.00 is high in price.
The set up I been running make the car feel Lazy not what it should do.

 

[boomdriver]

On the other fourm they are telling me dont change the cam just put a good trans in with a good conveter then I should be a lot happyer with the set up.
But I hate to spend $450.00 for a custom made chip just to find out It still not what I am looking for.
I have a performance chip now not a custom chip.
I wish I knew where to get a good custom chip for less money I still think $450.00 is high in price.
The set up I been running make the car feel Lazy not what it should do.

I agree...on both counts. $450 is high for a good tune. Thats more in the $250-$400 range, I'd think.

And your car should jerk your head off. With all that stuff, it should take off like a scared rabbit. If its mushy or lazy, fuel, wrong stall speed not capturing all the power, and a tune thats not perfect is the reason why.

The cam is probably alright, even a bit much. Right now I'd try to figure out how much fuel it can handle, test it, tune it, and last get the appropiate torque converter.

I had an idiot shop put the wrong TC is mine once, and the moron tells me how nice and smooth it shifts.
I did'nt get 2 blocks away and turned around and took it back. They admitted putting a higher stall speed in, so half the power never got to the wheels in city traffic. It drove like a minivan.:ugh If you're really on the cam and looking at 1/4 mile of WFO....by all means, install a 3500 or higher stall TC and have a blast. If you just want to get to work and maybe mess with some kid in a fart can car on the way....stick to a low stall for street driving and low end torque...cause its the low end that sold us ALL a C4 and the reason most other performance oriented folks do not pick fights with vettes (since C4 and up)...they know they'll probably loose or have to run the crap outta their car tryin not to..

Good luck trying to get it figured out. You will. Call Jon (FIC) and get his opinion on the fuel. Mines a 357 with some enhancements and it took 26lbs/hr easily.

 

[Marv02]

I know Jon from FIC and John Injector Plus, he help me pick the parts for the motor He also sold me the chip He said I pick up some H/P by going with a custom chip he the one telling me $450.00 for a custom chip.

John from Injector Plus also thinks a 2500 stall just about right for what I have as for the Injector size both Jon and John told me to with the 22# Injectors I got the injectors from FIC.

I been saying for a long time I felt it was a trans problem other just told me I dont know what I am talking about.

When I told them I think thats why the car felt lazy and I though it was not a 2200 stall convertor it was a lot less.

I agree...on both counts. $450 is high for a good tune. Thats more in the $250-$400 range, I'd think.

And your car should jerk your head off. With all that stuff, it should take off like a scared rabbit. If its mushy or lazy, fuel, wrong stall speed not capturing all the power, and a tune thats not perfect is the reason why.

The cam is probably alright, even a bit much. Right now I'd try to figure out how much fuel it can handle, test it, tune it, and last get the appropiate torque converter.

I had an idiot shop put the wrong TC is mine once, and the moron tells me how nice and smooth it shifts.
I did'nt get 2 blocks away and turned around and took it back. They admitted putting a higher stall speed in, so half the power never got to the wheels in city traffic. It drove like a minivan.:ugh If you're really on the cam and looking at 1/4 mile of WFO....by all means, install a 3500 or higher stall TC and have a blast. If you just want to get to work and maybe mess with some kid in a fart can car on the way....stick to a low stall for street driving and low end torque...cause its the low end that sold us ALL a C4 and the reason most other performance oriented folks do not pick fights with vettes (since C4 and up)...they know they'll probably loose or have to run the crap outta their car tryin not to..

Good luck trying to get it figured out. You will. Call Jon (FIC) and get his opinion on the fuel. Mines a 357 with some enhancements and it took 26lbs/hr easily.

 

[Paddywhack]

Marv, I feel your pain. I also built a new motor for my '86 a little more than a year ago. 4 bolt main, 060 over, the list is similiar. Call TBICHIPS.com at 336-471-2827. Check out his website, he has advice on datalogging and a form to fill out to help him create a chip for you. I talked to him several times during and after my build.
As far as the oil leak, i just got my engine back in, my leak was at the intake manifold, front seal.

 

[Marv02]

What do you think about the LT4 cams but Comp Cam makes all diffrent spec for them but which one to get much cheeper than the LPE or TPIS cams.

But the 219/219 can use the stock distributor gear which is a plus.

 

[Marv02]

I ordered a Lunati 60101 It anouther flat tappet for the money I stay with a flat tappet.
I can reuse the push rods LOL.
And I will be able to use the chip it for now I hope.
It makes a little more power not alot more but I has the mean sound to it and it works with in my RPM range where I what the motor to be running at.
It not a race car but a DD for now.
I had to go the next size up Valve springs extra $70.00
So it cost me for now $270.00 to get where I want it instead of $1300.00.
Heres a U tube video what sold me on the sound alone Plus I think I shouild pass smog with a good tune.
YouTube - 55 Chevy Montana Voodoo Cam

 

[John Robinson]

I would suggest you recheck the valve adjustment for the rocker arms. I have seen many engines that were upgraded with a hotter cam and then they were flat for power. In most of the cases I have experienced the valves were set to tight. You may have an issue with the transmission but if I were you I would take off the valve covers and start the engine and loosen the rockers until they are all clacking. Listen carefully to how the engine is running and I think you will hear the idle pick up significantly which is an indication that the valves were hanging open from being over tightened.

 

[Marv02]

The valves adjusted good i just had a set of CMH rocker arms I never heard of them before I dont know much about them so rather finding out the hard way having one break on me I just ordered a sett of CC steels full roller rockers to make the valve train bullet proff and i dont have to wory about them brecking on me.

Like I said I found a oil leak from the timming cover so Might as well do things now it up on jack stands and apart now.

I was thinking at least once a week I wish I went with a diffrent cam.

Not what I wanted I wanted a meaner sounding car the cam I am getting now give me a coulpe more HP and TQ the rummble I wanted but not to wild it a 1000 to 5500 range cam it a steet car that once in a whlie gets reved out.

And what I have read with a good tune it will pass CA smog.

I would suggest you recheck the valve adjustment for the rocker arms. I have seen many engines that were upgraded with a hotter cam and then they were flat for power. In most of the cases I have experienced the valves were set to tight. You may have an issue with the transmission but if I were you I would take off the valve covers and start the engine and loosen the rockers until they are all clacking. Listen carefully to how the engine is running and I think you will hear the idle pick up significantly which is an indication that the valves were hanging open from being over tightened.

 

[Curious George]

Here is a link to a 350 (355) rebuild.

As almost everyone has said... it is in the selection of parts and how they interact with each other. I am very satisfied with the results of my rebuild and drivibility of it.

I want to improve the cat-back exhaust because I still think this part of the exhaust is limiting some flow at upper RPM's, but other than that it runs strong. I am using the OE size tires on the OE wheels and I can boil the tires without even trying. 1st gear will shred the tires and it will shift into 2nd and I still get some good spin, then it hooks up.

I don't drive like this, but it is fun to do from time to time.

Another 355 build... - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

CG