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Bogs at full throttle

74bigblock

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 30, 2003
Messages
1,163
Location
Barrington, IL
Corvette
2008 Z06
74 454 ... original intake, Edelbrock Performer 750 carb. She runs great at 50% throt., but any more than this, she starts to choke out. I'm thinking it might be the fuel pump, but would appreciate any other things to check. I have already re adjusted the mixture screws with no improvement.
 
I had to re-jet my 74 because I was having the same problem. I was running too lean. Running to lean or rich will produce the same problem as far as performance at WOT. Check your plugs to see if they're wet. If so, you're too rich. You can find jets/needles pretty easily. I'd get an assortment and play around with them. Hope this helps...

ian
 
does it have a fuel filter in the carb?
dirty?
did it just start doing this?
tom
 
fuel filter

The car is new to me as of 3 weeks ago... so it is quite the challenge to find out what is what. When I first picked it up, it ran fine. Now it is all messed up. Some details on the engine... it was just rebuilt... bored 030, new lifters, roller rockers, etc...

The fuel line runs up from the pump and goes thru a little glass bottle filter, then up to the carb. I checked it, and it is clean. The bog only occurs when the car is in gear. The tool who did the work used some sort of clear plastic tubing for the line that comes off the pump... but I do not think that has anything to do with my bogging issue.
 
Anyone else with input?? I'd really appreciate it.
 
There is usually a fuel filter at the tank or close by. If there is change it. Also check the air fliter or make a short run without it just to elimate it as the problem.
Sounds like a fuel starving.
 
I already replaced the air filter with a new K&N. I made runs with, and without the filter. I only found a fuel filter that the previous owner put in... it's right next to the carb, is new and clean.... it's the see thru kind. I've ordered a new pump just in case, and will make the swap as soon as it arrives.

Would an exhaust manifold leak cause the compression to drop and creat the bog? Just to re state... she bogs over 50% throt. Sometimes after this it surges severely for a few hundred yds.
 
I will try Edel's tech line.

Here is the weird thing (at least I think it's weird)... if the car is in park, there is no problem.... she rev's up nice and strong, and all 4 barrels open fine, no bog. Put her in gear and run her... choke choke choke. This just gave me another idea... I believe there is a vacuum line that runs from the carb to thy tranny to tell it when to shift. maybe there is a leak in this, and is affecting the carb??
 
Sounds like weak fuel delivery at high loads to me. I would check the fuel pump gas delivery to the engine. If you are good to 50% throttle, it seem to indicate many things such as ignition, etc. are okay. Then when load increases, the fuel gets short and your engine leans out. I would check the pump, filters, etc.

One remote possibilty, if you car has cats, they mignt be plugged and causing backpressure on the engine. This would feel like major power loss as the load increases.

Also, I would replace that clear tubing fuel line with metal. That tubing is an invitation for an under-hood gas fire if you ask me.

Regards,
Bob (Radar) :)
 
OK.. I will sort it all out over the next few days and post the results. I'll take some pix too .. before and after of the fuel delivery... it is very Ghetto right now :duh
 
All 4 barrels should NOT be opening when you rev the engine in park. Your air door spring may be adjusted too light.
 
The 2nd set of barrels are opened by vacuum, not by spring. Welcome to Edelbrock land!
 
Have you tried to see if the vacuum advance on the ignition is faulty? Just hook up a timing light to any spark. Then rev the engine to see of the advance is at full lock when you look at the crank balancer and static advance plate on the timing cover. Blipping the throttle should give enough advance vacuum to send the advancer moving to full lock.
Since you've gone this far, might as well check the ignition timing and see if it is set correctly.
You might want to get a more sensitive tach meter and do an "Idle Lean Drop" on the mixture screws again. Once that is set properly, there is no need to chase those. That's unless you see no change in rpm? If there is no change, those might be slightly clogged. And at WOT, it is still pulling fuel from those at any rpm. Simply find the highest rpm on each mixture screw and move the screw one half turn (back to lean). You might have to experiment by more or less turns from the highest rpm. Do the next mixture screw the same way.
Throttle blip with no load (parked) will drain the float bowl and act as normal. If you are driving, there is much more fuel that needs to be delivered. Float bowl level is critical. This should be checked also.
This test is safer with a cold engine. Be Very Safe doing this no matter what!!! Take contact or brake cleaner and spray the carb gasket area. If the engine revs up, you have a leak (lean condition) and you might want to change the carb gaskets at the manifold. Use caution!!! Exhaust header might set spray can vapors on fire. That's why you should do this with a cold engine and cold headers.
Have you tried to see what kind of fuel is coming out of the fuel line before it goes to the carb? Remove the fuel line, and set the hose end inside a clear beaker and watch the fuel enter. Is there very little coming out, or is it very strong like a horse taking a ***?
 
74bigblock said:
The 2nd set of barrels are opened by vacuum, not by spring. Welcome to Edelbrock land!

The air door at the top of the carb. over the rear throttle plates is controled by both vacuum and a spring. The vacuum works with a spring that is adjustable to control how early or late the air door opens. If the spring is adjusted too light the door will open too early and will cause a major bog under load.
 
I'm not very familiar with the internal differences of the Edelbrock VS the Holley, Rochester, or Carter, but I'll add my general knowledge two cents worth anyway. :L

This is the order of what I would check:

1. Look for an in-line canister type fuel filter, I can't recall where they were located, I think it may have been in the engine compartment, just prior to the fuel pump. Find it, replace it.

2. By all means, replace that clear fuel line with an approved line, that clear plastic line is a fire waiting to happen. It is not your performance problem, but a safety issue.

3. Check to see if there is an internal filter where the fuel line enters the carb. Holley, Rochester, and Carter carbs all had them, Edelbrock might also. If it has one replace it.

4. If you have replaced all the above filters, you should have a clean unimpeded fuel flow at all RPMs, if not then the next check is fuel pump pressure and flow. Check the pressure with a gauge, and the fuel flow according to the service manual. If the flow and pressure are low, determine if it is the pump, or if the fuel is not reaching the inlet side of the pump.

5. Since the in-line canister was found and replaced (I hope) then you could have poor fuel flow from the tank to the pump.
There is a fuel strainer located inside the tank on the fuel pickup/sender unit. This was made of nylon mesh, and they can become clogged, especially if there may have been high water content sometime in the history of the car.

5a. Drop the fuel tank, remove the sender/pickup unit, and check the fuel strainer carefully. Some strainers may be replaceable if they were the type that were retained only by press fit.
If the strainer looks the least bit suspect replace it while the tank is down.

5b. If the strainer looks OK, check the lines that come out of the tank for deterioration, inside as well as outside. Also look for possible rust deterioration of the steel line coming out of the tank as part of the pickup/sender unit, and the lines running the length of the car. remember, the line from the tank to the fuel pump are not pressure lines, they are suction lines, and any minute pinhole(s) will cause an airleak, and a resulting airbubble in the fuel on it's way to the fuel pump. This can cause a reduced fuel flow and insufficient fuel/pressure under high loads when it's needed the most.

6. Once you have satisfied yourself that the fuel flow is OK, and the problem persists, I would check the exhaust pipes for internal collapsing. Way back in the 70s GM was having problems with the double wall exhaust pipes collapsing under the newfound heat of the leaner burning and cat connverter engines. We found it quite by accident on many GM cars, not just Chevys. It will drive ya nuts because it doesn't feel like an exhaust problem, and occurs only under load at high throttle application.

This is really lengthy so I'll end here.



vettepilot
 
Here are the common things for a BB to bog out. Remember at WOT this thing is demanding a large amount of fuel.... fast.

1. Fuel filter inside carb plugged or having the 1 way valve still in the filter or both. Just because someone added a glass inline does not mean they took out the one inside the carb. Pull the fuel line at the carb and inlet fitting and look with a flashlight. If one is there you will see the brown paper. If so, pull it. You have the inline for filtering.

2. Fuel pump pressure. If the pump is weak <4 lbs of pressure at idle you won't have enought at WOT. Take a look at this last as you will need a gauge installed inline.

3. Crimped or bent "S" hoses on the fuel pump. Take a look under the car by the fuel pump and make sure the "S" hose from the fuel line to the pump is smooth and no bends. If someone replaced with regular fuel line they may have bent the line and reducing flow.

4. Fuel pickup sock in the gas tank having crud from 30 years of work. Look inside with a flashlight and see what you see.

5. Distributor advancing??? Put a timing light on the it and see what the basic setting is and how it advances mechanically. Pull off the vacuum advance on the dist. and plug it. The advance should be smooth and top out at 34=36 degrees. Then check with the vacuum advance connected and see if it is working.

Good luck on this. It can be a bear tracing down this problem. I know from experience.
JP
 
LOL! Thanks!

We are working on it tonight. I already know the tank is a mess. The pick up looks like what I left in the toilet after lunch. I'll have pix up tonight so you all can see how ghetto this thing is.
 
Could it be a vacuum leak or maybe the accelerator pump? I had similar problem with the rochester on my impala. revved up in neutral and park fine but in gear it would threaten to stall. It was my accelerator pump.
 
CRAP! Still bogs!

Ok, so we did the fuel pump. We did the fuel line. We replaced all the vacuum lines from the carb. Took her out for a run, and had a glimmer of hope. The first 2 times I got on her... She ran like a champ (OMG it was insane). Then... cough cough. Fell on her face. Ive got some pix here too. You can see the old lines this !##&^%) was using, and the new braided lines I put in. Note the high rise valve covers :)
 

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