BWD or Cardone Mass Air Flow sensor

[joshwilson3]

I was looking at getting a rebuilt Mass Air Flow sensor. I know when these get rebuilt, that they have to get calibrated. And have read of some getting miss-calibrated MAF sensors causing a lean or rich condition.

Any preference of BWD or Cardone MAF sensors? The BWD is limited lifetime warranty, and the Cardone is 1 year warranty.

 

[93Rubie]

You are correct on the calibration thing. I got a Cardone for a 87 Buick GN from Advanced, did not run worth a crap. Totally wrong calibration for it. I got one from Kirban Performance that is a Cardone unit but built to Kirban Specs. runs perfect.

I would get the BWD just for the fact it is lifetime warranty. Also, NAPA seems to have better parts then others might give them a try.

I take it the one on the car is bad? Also, you might get/borrow/use a scan tool to read the MAF and see if it is within specs with the FSM at idle and so forth just to make sure it is calibrated correctly. I forget of the top of my head how many grams per second at idle is a good reading but I do believe it is in the 4-7 ballpark.

 

[joshwilson3]

You are correct on the calibration thing. I got a Cardone for a 87 Buick GN from Advanced, did not run worth a crap. Totally wrong calibration for it. I got one from Kirban Performance that is a Cardone unit but built to Kirban Specs. runs perfect.

I would get the BWD just for the fact it is lifetime warranty. Also, NAPA seems to have better parts then others might give them a try.

I take it the one on the car is bad? Also, you might get/borrow/use a scan tool to read the MAF and see if it is within specs with the FSM at idle and so forth just to make sure it is calibrated correctly. I forget of the top of my head how many grams per second at idle is a good reading but I do believe it is in the 4-7 ballpark.

It doesn't matter now about the BWD. The last one has already been sold. Can't get one. That's a myth about Napa having better parts. For the most part, they sell the same parts as everyone else. Though sometimes they do have parts others don't have. But the MAF at Napa is a Cardone. The difference is they charge more than double for it.

My 89 all of a sudden didn't want to hold an idle. It would act like it was dying, then it would stall out a few seconds later. I did get it to hold an idle a couple times, but something still wasn't right. Then one day I started it up, same thing. Then I disconnected the MAF, and it started right up and idled fine. I've done that a few times since to make sure it wasn't a fluke. So, I say a bad MAF. Though, I don't really know what all the ECM does when the MAF is unplugged as maybe it could be something else that gets fixed when the MAF is unplugged.

I did run a couple of scans. I had to keep my foot on the gas for the most part to keep it running. But I didn't notice anything odd. The MAF seemed to be in spec. But since it holds an idle just fine with the MAF unplugged, the best bet is it is the MAF from what I gather.

I could get a rebuilt AC/Delco for $150. But I don't really know if it is any better than the Cardone. At least Autozone keeps the Cardone in stock so I could swap it out easily.

 

[TedC]

With a MAF disconnected then the ECM should be running in open loop. You can confirm with scanner. Just because the engine runs better with the MAF disconnected, doesn't mean that the MAF is defective. I would read over the MAF sections in the FSM to try an isolate a specific MAF failure. I've had good luck with Cardone remanufactured parts, but like any remanufactured part, it is hit and miss.

 

[joshwilson3]

With a MAF disconnected then the ECM should be running in open loop. You can confirm with scanner. Just because the engine runs better with the MAF disconnected, doesn't mean that the MAF is defective. I would read over the MAF sections in the FSM to try an isolate a specific MAF failure. I've had good luck with Cardone remanufactured parts, but like any remanufactured part, it is hit and miss.

Last time I messed with it. It had been sitting for days and I started it up in open loop and it barely ran for a few seconds and stalled out. I unplugged the MAF, and I started it up and it held idle just fine all the way to 200* before I ended up shutting it off. It did the same thing a few days before when I figured it had to be the MAF since it only runs with it unplugged.

What else could cause the car to only be able to hold an idle with the MAF disconnected? I had read of others having a similar problem, and they replaced the MAF and it fixed it.

I've already had replaced the MAF relays and did some MAF wiring checks like checking that the MAF female plug has a good ground. And that you can see the plug get power briefly when you put the key to the run position.

The problem I've read with rebuilt MAF's, is that the MAF is calibrated. So, some say when they rebuild them, they either don't calibrate them, or they do it poorly. If the MAf isn't calibrated right, it could cause the car to not run right or cause a rich or lean condition.

 

[aklim]

My 99 E300 Turbodiesel has a MAF. I changed out the SENSOR part but it didn't work. Yes, that was also an MB part. I tend to think that the sensor gives feedback and this feedback is calculated for one specific application. It would give a CEL every now and then but it would "work" most of the time. Changed to the right MB part and it was fine. I think that the other MAF SENSOR was calibrated differently.

If it were me, I would get a known calibration from GM just to avoid the aggravation unless I knew my MAF was taken into account when they wrote the ECM program

 

[joshwilson3]

My 99 E300 Turbodiesel has a MAF. I changed out the SENSOR part but it didn't work. Yes, that was also an MB part. I tend to think that the sensor gives feedback and this feedback is calculated for one specific application. It would give a CEL every now and then but it would "work" most of the time. Changed to the right MB part and it was fine. I think that the other MAF SENSOR was calibrated differently.

If it were me, I would get a known calibration from GM just to avoid the aggravation unless I knew my MAF was taken into account when they wrote the ECM program

I'm not paying $700 for a Maf. Wells sells one for $1500. It's all aftermarket now anyways. I've read the new MAF's have a circuit board inside instead of the hot wire. Which means the tune will be different with a circuit board. So, I don't think paying extra for new would really be beneficial with regards to the tune since they are now using circuit boards.

 

[boomdriver]

I'm not paying $700 for a Maf. Wells sells one for $1500. It's all aftermarket now anyways. I've read the new MAF's have a circuit board inside instead of the hot wire. Which means the tune will be different with a circuit board. So, I don't think paying extra for new would really be beneficial with regards to the tune since they are now using circuit boards.

There are many MAF designs. They are all model specific and calibrated to each application.

"hot-wire" measures temp variations between 2 wires.

A "flapper" measures based on air flow velocity that moves the flapper.

Blade (or circuit board as you call it) is similar to the wire.

There are many ways to measure how much or how fast air is moving. Every mfg seems to have a preference.

If you go order a new MAF (OEM) for an old car, you;re going to get one exactly like you had. They cannot be traded around or interchanged. There are some aftermarket MAFs that have some nice features, like a Granatelli that has an adjusting screw so the range can be moved up or down to better fit the application. People with enhanced engines enjoy that feature.

Its a Corvette....when a part is labeled "Corvette only" then its a specific app and its just gonna cost more because they sell less of them and the lack of vol sales forces the price upward.
The problem with the generic cheapo MAF sensors AND why they are less expensive is that the cheapo mfg makes them as generic as possible so the same part number will fit a camero TPI or a firebird or other tpi motors that are actually quite different in their tune, and operating systems.

BTW..

MAF sensors don;t usually just fail. Physical damage accounts for most MAF replacements. They are pretty durable. Mines been peachy for 15+ yrs with no screens and the heat-sinks ground away. Same 'ol MAF sensor...on my 3rd or 4th plug.

The plug is not as tough.. The purple wire seems to like to break internally and cause problems. Take each of the 5 wires, separate them each by spreading them apart,. and use needle nose to press each into the plug. See if that makes a difference.
Beyond that, the relays can fail at anytime and the cheapos will. Same for relay wiring. Look at the wire 6" under the relay as it goes into the sleeve. You may see broken or exposed wire. Pull the plugs and see if there is corrosion or water. You say the MAF plug gets power briefly....thats a relay problem, not the sensor. Only the power relay should be operating. The other one (burn-off) is not for normal running. Thats the self cleaning oven system. Thats why there is no need to "clean" (damage) the MAF filaments with Q-tips and solvents.
The FSM did'nt help? The flow charts are usually so accurate that its like they were written for each car.

 

[joshwilson3]

What I said is that the MAF plug gets power on start up. That confirms full power is getting to the sensor as sometimes bad wiring can prevent full power getting to the MAF. It's just for a second that you see power when you turn the key to "on". That is the way it is supposed to work from the people who described how to check the MAF wiring. I also checked to make sure the plug had good grounds.

It's my understanding all the "new" MAFs are now the circuit board design. The OEM is hot wire. They say the circuit board style MAF's aren't calibrated correctly. Circuit board style like the Microtech MAF. I recall someone saying the brand new Bosch MAFs are also this new circuit board style. So, looks like even if you buy a brand new OEM MAF, the calibration can be off. People have had check engine lights come on with the Microtech.

That MAF's I'm looking at are rebuilt and are the OEM hot wire style. The reason why the MAF's I'm looking at are less expensive is because they are rebuilt. Though some places are charging $300 for a rebuilt MAF.

There's no where to start looking at in the FSM. My 89 is fully tuned up bumper to bumper. All settings already set and checked ie. min air, TPS, timing, fuel pressure, etc. And since I got no codes and nothing odd showed up on the scan. That meant it could be anything with no where to start looking. I was fixing to have it towed to the shop as I had already done just about everything you could check for. I went ahead and replaced the fuel filter again just incase it crapped out, sucked out the gas and put new in just incase of bad gas, etc. My last ditch thing to check was running it with the MAF unplugged, and it idled just fine. Others have reported similar to mine with it running fine with the MAF unplugged. So, they replace the MAF and fixed the problem.

 

[TedC]

There's no where to start looking at in the FSM.

The ECM used with our early C4s is very limited on the diagnostic logical when compared to computer like ECMs available today. The FSM outlines testing procedures if a code was set. Test as if a code was set. The MAF related codes are 33, 34 and 36. Start with the lower codes first and verify all is OK based on provided procedures. This level of testing has helped me uncover issues that posted no codes. If you uncover no issue then it makes sense to replace the MAF with a similar designed unit.

 

[joshwilson3]

Looks like the Maf was bad.

I did the Code 33 tests, and that all passed. I checked that the purple wire at the Maf plug got 12V, and it got 14V with the engine running. I assume it means to get at least 12V. While doing the continuity and volt checks on the Maf plug, I bent the plug around to make sure there wasn't a wire problem at the plug. And that passed. Code 34 says if it runs better with the Maf unplugged, to replace the Maf.

I put the new Maf in and it idled fine. I ran a scan too while I let it idle and noticed my BLM's were dead on where they should be. So maybe the old Maf was causing me to run lean as I was having that problem. I'll check the BLM's when I run my scans while driving to see what they do. I idled it for 10-15 minutes till the data quit flowing.

The one problem I have doing my scans is the data will always at some point stop flowing. It may be in 2 minutes or 5 or 10 or 15 minutes.

 

[aklim]

I have tried cleaning the MAF with a gentle spray of MAF cleaner and sometimes it works, sometimes not. I usually would clean it every so often as a PM thing

 

[joshwilson3]

I have tried cleaning the MAF with a gentle spray of MAF cleaner and sometimes it works, sometimes not. I usually would clean it every so often as a PM thing

Yeah, I've got a can of CRC Maf cleaner. That didn't do anything to the old Maf. Though that had already been cleaned anyways. I went ahead and sprayed the new Maf though.

 

[TedC]

Great news. I would reset the min air speed since you have nothing else to do now. :L What MAF rebuild did you go with?

 

[88RedVette]

Josh, I'm facing the exact same issue with my '88. What MAF sensor did you end up getting?

 

[joshwilson3]

josh, i'm facing the exact same issue with my '88. What maf sensor did you end up getting?

bwd.