C3 Steering?

[Zektor]

Hi Guys,
I think I have a problem witht the steering in my 1982 Corvette. But I am not sure, because it has done it ever since I bought the car over a year ago. At first I thought it might be normal, but as I have got used to driving the car more often... it's beginning to feel like it's unsafe and therefore cannot be right.

Here's the problem:-

I appear to have "play" in the steering around about the wheels centered position. If I have the engine running and move the steering wheel slightly, the driving wheels do not appear to move. I can move the steering wheel right and left about half an inch either way and the driving wheels do not move.

When I am out driving on the road it doesn't feel right too. If I get onto a nice flat bump-free road it drives pretty much straight as you like. But hit a small or big bump and the car seems to jerk into a new direction even though I hardly sensed anything through the steering wheel. I know these cars suffer with bump-steer but, I should of at least feel the steering wheel being jerked in my hands. This makes it difficult (and tiring) to drive at speed on a windy bumpy road. If your concentration isn't there for an instant, you could end up going off the road!!!

Now, I've had a look under the bonnet and wiggled the steering wheel a bit. As far as I can tell the "play" is at the end of the pitman arm, this is where it joins onto the steering rods etc.

Can someone tell me if this is a common wear point, or does my pitman arm need replacing.

Someone please help me on this, as I have posted this on various forums in the past and no-one has come up with some solid idea on how to fix this problem. Surely, someone else out there with a C3 has had a similar problem??

Help!

Cheers
Dazza

 

[dmrodco]

This is a real common problem with the C3 steering. You will need to go through it . My suggestion is to get a VETT BRAKES and PARTS cataloge and start ordering parts. They sell a kit with the ram and valve two new hoses and fluid. You will probably need to rebuild the steering box and might need tie rod ends and pitman arm. http://www.vettebrakes.com/ the other choice is to do a retro rack and pinion kit from STEERIODS. good luck

 

[Zektor]

dmrodco,
Thanks for the response. At least I now know it's not normal!!!

Question is though, is it dangerous to drive in it's current state, and can it fail completely leaving me with no steering at all???

Cheers
Dazza

 

[mmvette80]

I drove it like that for a while. It wasnt too smart. If I had known about the steeroids I would have done it. The C3 steering isnt that great to begin with. I replaced every thing from tire to tire, rag joint and steering box. I STILL HAVE PLAY.

 

[dmrodco]

You will still have steering it will just be a handful and I sure would not want to get distracted at a crucial moment and loose control. I would drive it sparingly and start buying parts. the replacement of the associated parts is prety easy for someone with the tools and know how. I have done it many times. Just be sure to get it into a alignment shop as soon as your finnished rebuilding it. It might be a good time to just tear into the busings and the entire front end that way you will have years of troublefree service.

 

[smurfvet]

I suggest you check the following items

1) Check the idler arm first. The GM ones are prone to failure. If the arm has any movement in it at all as you alternately push-pull, it's bad. Some people say to change them after 10 years to a good one with a lifetime guarantee like a Moog.

2) Check the inner and outer tie rod ends and the connections on the center link (any place there is a grease fitting). If any of these "wobble" or can be moved, change them. The same goes for the bolted connection at the pitman arm. If you jack the car up on one side and have someone move the jacked tire back and forth, you might be able to see movement in these different pieces to narrow it down....

3) When I got my car, the steering box was "loose". There is an adjustment screw and jam nut on top of the box. Center the steering wheel, then loosen the jam nut. Turn the screw in ONLY until yoy feel a litle binding or resistance. Tighten the jam nut, and tru it. If the steering seems "stiff", loosen the screw a 1/16 turn and try again. Don't overtighten or the steering box will be damaged.

4) I can't help with the power steering, if you have it.

5) There is a fabric joint in the steering column shaft between the steering box and the firewall. These usually don't fail, but it is possible. As you turn the steering wheel, see if this moves.

6) Ball joints usually don't cause this kind of problem, but check those as well. Failure of a ball joint will throw the car out of alignment.

My car did the same thing as yours is, and it got scary at times. I did the idler arm and steering box- that's all that was wrong.

 

[dmrodco]

All of that being true.... how many times do you want to work on your OLD front end before you just put all new parts in. its REALLY not hard and will keep you from working on it for another 10 years at least why take the chance on just piecing it together ? I think VETTES deserve the best treatment we can give them . Its your vette your money and your life so you make the call

 

[Vette/Berlina-coupe]

-Firstly, I wish to note that "SmurfVet's" -advise is particularly thoughtful to follow carefully point-by-point (he has a perfect spot-on understanding of what's involved)!!! -Additionally, after recently carefully studying the engineering of the C3/Steering-box, as an SAE-member I assure you it is very well designed; -and actually employs a type of rack&pinion principle therein, whereby the ingenious old recirculating-balls in fact moves an internal/linear-rack member which is fully lash-adjustable against a pinion-gear on the output/pitman-shaft (so is rather just the opposite to a C5/R&P-unit wherein the steering-wheel turns the pinion-gear against a linear-rack). Nevertheless, sufice to say that the C5/R&P-unit really only has the advantage of simply eliminating the Idler-arm & Draglink. These external parts of the steering-system are problematical only if worn, --so keep'em greased only with black HP-MollyGrease, -not the JiffyLube GreasyKid stuff (and if your joints don't have Zerk/Lub-fittings, then look closely to see if there is a screw-plug by which to readily install a grease-fitting)! If the C3/Steering-box is carefully adjusted (with fnt.-wheels off ground) so that you can indeed better feel the critically important center/high-point of the straight-ahead steering-position (never attempt adjusting steering-box with wheels turned); --and frankly, if you want to precisely feel that critical high-point adjustment, --best remove the steering-wheel as to accurately twist the steering-shaft right between your fingers to "feel" the tiny'est minute adjustment affect (you will be amaized at how much better you can "feel" your delicate-adjustment changes. The Big 2"-nut adjusts the S-box end-bearings lash, while the adjustment usually made is to the small/end-screw, -which adjusts the actual impingement between the rack & pinion therein, --which needs to be done most judiciously with sensitivity as I have eluded to here. I prefer to pack the S-box with black moly-grease, as it offers the greatest resistance to wear. [Reminder (nag): --always place safety-stands under the frame before you venture thereunder!] Armed with better understanding of the C3/S-box, I believe some of you owners will no longer make negative-remarks about it being inherently sloppy; --simply t'aint true. You will gain nothing but compromises (and a thinner wallet) by converting to a Steeroids/R&P-kit, -which is not well suited to the C3-chassis layout. I have gained new respect for the C3/Steering-unit after coming to truly understand and appreciate its quality engineered design. My C3/Steering-system is functioning so snug, that I am thinking of disconnecting the Power-steering sys. entirely, -because you only really need it during parking (and the exercise is what some pay-money to feel in the gym). All of the extra belts/pump/hydraulic-components just rob the engine of power (and waste fuel); --it should have been designed with just an electric-pump and a 3-min.-timer one could switch-on when parking; --and like AC is really intended for sissys.....
:nono

 

[smurfvet]

V/B- I have read about refilling the steering box with moly grease other places. A couple of questions for you...

How much of the gear oil has to be removed? All, or just most? If it all has to come out, I expect the box needs to be removed and properly drained. Is it possible to "pack" the box while it is in the car with grease from the "bottom up" using a needle probe, then draw the old gear oil off the top with a suction pump?

What "weight" or consistency grease is to be used? I would expect a lighter body grease with a decent temperature range- as compared to a thicker grease more suited for wheel bearings. I have a moly grease that is rather thin which I use for u-joints with great success. Can you give a manufacturer and type?

Thanks

 

[Shawn's 78]

I have got to say, this is one of the best comprehensive posts on Steering I've seen yet!

This helps to answer a few questions I had myself regarding a little "slop" in my own steering.

Thanks again - you guys Rock!
Shawn

 

[Vette/Berlina-coupe]

RE: SMURFVET: -well actually, the lable on the Grease-cartridge I'm presently using reads: " Gen.Purpose HD-Lithium " -but is same as molydium-disulfide (does not state weight / viscosity); and flows sufficiently well for warmer-climates, but it does not actually pour in any case, --so if it gets really cold where you are then may need a lower-viscosity.
Short of pulling the S-box apart, the procedure you have given for replacing or supplementing the present grease is the best possibility; the object being to remove as much of the original ordinary/greasy-kid-stuff and pack-in as much Black-grease as possible (then with front-wheels off-ground, turn your steering-wheel full stop-to-stop numerous times to get the new-stuff worked-in nicely). -BerlinaBob
:TALK

 

[hotrodd]

This is stricly my opinion,if the steering has'nt been rebuilt and rear end redone I would bet it need's part's from the coupling down.Sorry but 20 year's is hard on bushing's and joint's.I rebuilt mine because of what you are experincing.To say the least it was unsafe and now it drive's like a dream.I used O'reily's part's and can't be happier.I hope this is'nt your case mine had 90,000 mile's but I feel it was overdo.Alot of good info.in this thread!I have learned more on this sight,been real helpful.Good luck!

 

[dmrodco]

RE: Vette/Berlina-coupe

I think you missunderstood my post. I suggested he replace all the componants of the original system and not piece meal it. As you are SAE certified ?? you should be able to appreciate not having to replace one part one week only to have another go out in two months why not do it right the first time? The parts are easy to get and even easier to install. the system is a good one just prone to leaks. the rack and pinion is great system and replaces EVERY componant in the older steering system including the box. I never bashed the older system just providing options. try and keep your comments alittle less inflammitory no one here is bashing anyone or anything just offering advice from our perspective.

 

[smurfvet]

Thanks BerlinaBob, I'm going to pull the top cover next month and see what's going on in there.

Hotrodd has a point, and that's more or less what I did- my car had 81K on it. The steering box adjustment was part of the front end work- including idler arm, adjustment to the steering box, ball joints and replacing all the a-frame bushings. Rear end had all new bushings in it. With a front and rear end alignment- $500 well spent! A rebuilt steering box is $250 or so, but I didn't need it.

Depending on what you read, the old rubber bushings "take a set" in a few years. Handling goes downhill from there. I toyed with the idea of the poly bushings, but a friend had serious problems with squeaks. I thought it best to stick with rubber and just plan on changing them every 7 to 10 years.

I know the steering boxes on these cars are tough. I have a coouple of older Chevy Corvairs that are also mostly original. Tie rod ends, idler arms, front end bushings, ball joints all changed. Never toughed the steering box except to check the oil level though.

 

[Last Ride]

Mine has had play in it from the moment I took it home. Rather than getting the steering rebuilt, however, I recently went the extravegant route and will soon be installing a Steeroids power rack and pinion setup with a Vette Brakes Performance Plus system. That oughta clean things up nicely! My wife might even feel comfortable driving it after this is done. As far as the rebuilt steering goes, I have heard that you can still find some play even at BEST with the C3 system. And for the price of an entire rebuild, an industrious person could probably build his own power rack. Just my $.02