Carbon Fiber Painting problems at BG

[Rob]

It was my understanding that there are no glass fibers in SMC? Am I wrong?

Actually, I stand corrected:

How It's Made

SMC 3374 is a special re-formulation of plastic materials that have been used in vehicles since the 1970s. But unlike its predecessors, SMC 3374 is lightweight and yet rigid enough to be a structural part, and can withstand high heat without softening. It starts out as a dough-like material called resin paste, which is rolled out thinly in a continuous sheet. Glass fibers, each about an inch long, are sprinkled across the sheet. A cover sheet of polyethylene or nylon plastic with more resin paste on it is laid over the fibers, and the entire composite sandwich is run through several rollers to "knead" the dough and ensure that the fibers are thoroughly wetted. The sheet is then either rolled into a 1,000-pound spool, or "festooned" in a large box, like taffy. The polyethylene or nylon sheet ensures that the material, which is about as sticky as toothpaste, doesn't cling to itself. These spools or boxes of material are then allowed to sit for two or three days to firm slightly. At the end of this "maturation" the SMC becomes as firm as modeling clay. The protective sheet is peeled off and the SMC is cut into sections, called charges, which may be several layers of SMC thick, and is ready to be made into a vehicle part. A charge is then inserted into a two-sided, heated die, where it is pressed at 1,000 pounds per square inch at about 300 degrees Fahrenheit for about two minutes to mold the part. A lubricant built into the material helps to de-mold the formed, hardened part. It is then ready to be trimmed and painted.

 

[berky2500]

Hey hippy,

Welcome to the CAC but if you stay around here very long, you'll learn that the vinegar isn't necessary to get your point across. No one claims to be the expert in everything discussed here, but most people do try to help one another out.

If you want to correct some one, go ahead, do it nicely, and I'm sure everyone one will benefit from your expertise. Stuff it down everyone's throat, and not only will you get everyone riled up, no one will read or care about your post anyway.

Thanks for providing your knowledge, but if you have to provide it with insults, provide it somewhere else...

 

[JBsC5]

Hey hippy,

Welcome to the CAC but if you stay around here very long, you'll learn that the vinegar isn't necessary to get your point across. No one claims to be the expert in everything discussed here, but most people do try to help one another out.

If you want to correct some one, go ahead, do it nicely, and I'm sure everyone one will benefit from your expertise. Stuff it down everyone's throat, and not only will you get everyone riled up, no one will read or care about your post anyway.

Thanks for providing your knowledge, but if you have to provide it with insults, provide it somewhere else...

Very well said.

Thank you

JB

 

[hippy]

not planning on staying here long, didn't sign up to make friends or win popularity contests. I came here originally because I was interested in info about the c6. I joined only after reading thread after thread of complete BS offered up as an answer to an honest question. To those who feel insulted by my remarks, I don't really care if I insulted you. You have brought shame to yourself and to your ancestors. I am not responsible for the things you say. Of course, it is wrong of me to say things that aren't nice, after all, it's ok to say whatever you want no matter how wrong it is, as long as nobodies feelers get hurt. Enjoy your forum, I will let you do as and post as you like and not bother to point out anything that might make you look like less of an authoritative figure.

 

[Ken]

Hardly a "true" hippy. :L

 

[Rob]

not planning on staying here long, didn't sign up to make friends or win popularity contests. I came here originally because I was interested in info about the c6. I joined only after reading thread after thread of complete BS offered up as an answer to an honest question. To those who feel insulted by my remarks, I don't really care if I insulted you. You have brought shame to yourself and to your ancestors. I am not responsible for the things you say. Of course, it is wrong of me to say things that aren't nice, after all, it's ok to say whatever you want no matter how wrong it is, as long as nobodies feelers get hurt. Enjoy your forum, I will let you do as and post as you like and not bother to point out anything that might make you look like less of an authoritative figure.

I'm sorry, but personally, I find your response above to be quite rude and in fact, BS.

Your attitude is rude and pompous. It's one thing to be an "authority" on something, (and let me remind you that taking some classes in a subject, doesn't necessarily make you an authority), it's another to declare yourself an authority and basically use your knowledge to insult people.

If the teachers in our schools treated our students the way you have treated people here with your responses, our education system would be 100% worse than it is now. Teaching and insulting someone are two totally different things and obviously, you FAIL to make that distinction.

As for shaming anyone's ancestors, the only thing I find shameful here is you.

Your "welcome" here has expired as has your account.

 

[berky2500]

Some people...can't teach 'em, can't shoot 'em...but you can kick them to the curb

Good call Rob.

 

[VettePainter]

Rob,

Long time, no speak... Concerning the material differences between the C4 and C5 (question a few posts/flames ago), here is my recollection:

C4:
SMC: All exterial panels except fascias
Bexloy: Front fascia
RIM: Rear fascias

(RIM: Reaction Injection Molded Plastic, Bexloy: Dupont high flex plastic)

C5:
SMC: Hood, doors, rockers, halo, hatch, gas door, roof
Flex SMC: Quarter panels
Lightweight SMC: Z06 roof, starting around MY00. Pre Z06 fixed roof coupes were regular SMC.
RIM: Fenders, front fascia, rear fascia

Now the SMC on the main body panels of the C5 is very similar, if not identical, to the C4 material. The exceptions are the quarters, which include a flex agent in the SMC, and the Z06 roof, which is a lower density SMC. The RIM used on the C5 is also a lower density than the C4 material.

Concerning the plant tune in runs for new materials, the significant problem during this process is getting panels that are representative of production parts. As suggested, this process begins well ahead of the intended production data, at a point where production tools are usually not available to make the body panels. This means the plant tunes to prototype panels that may not be identical to the production parts. For the paint shop, this can be a problem, as the biggest problem with composites in a paint process is porosity in the parts - a problem directly related to how the panels are processed in the mold. Until the panel supplier starts producing parts on production tools, the problem areas in the molding process may not be fully understood - resulting in potential problems with the production parts that were not observed during the initial prototype trial runs...

Hope this helps,
Dan

 

[Rob]

Thanks Dan! Good to hear from you!

 

[LongTimer]

Rob,


Concerning the plant tune in runs for new materials, the significant problem during this process is getting panels that are representative of production parts. As suggested, this process begins [B}well ahead of the intended production data, at a point where production tools are usually not available to make the body panels. This means the plant tunes to prototype panels that may not be identical to the production parts. For the paint shop, this can be a problem, as the biggest problem with composites in a paint process is porosity in the parts - a problem directly related to how the panels are processed in the mold. Until the panel supplier starts producing parts on production tools, the problem areas in the molding process may not be fully understood - resulting in potential problems with the production parts that were not observed during the initial prototype trial runs...

Hope this helps,
Dan [/B]

Thanks for the great info Dan.

So, just to be redundant, I still don't think we will see much, if any Carbon Fiber pannels on the '05 C6.

 

[ROCKETBLOCK]

Thank you for the responses on the old Fiberglass vs SMC. I learned a LOT from this thread! I guess the dumb question was worth it.

 

[jdm86]

Hippy needs a hug

 

[VettePainter]

Concerning the use of carbon fiber and other "space age" materials on the C6, I am on the fence....

Why to use exotic materials:
- Light and stiff
- Cutting edge engineering
- Owners can brag about the special CF hood/fender/etc

Why not:
- HUGE cost premium, could alienate some potential buyers
- Negligable benifits in the "real world"
- Same cost could go to better "real world" use in powertrain/chassis engineering improvements
- Aftermarket panels are available for fair prices for those who can use the added benefits
- The primary competition doesn't use them (911, etc)

That said, I can see the potential for a "SuperVette" priced in the $100K arena with these panels, along with all of the other world class performance improvements - ie ceramic brakes, adjustable aero parts, etc. For my money, I could care less about the composition of the external panels, I am spending on the running gear first. On an autocross course, the guy with the Brembos will have the advantage over the guy with the exotic panels. Same goes for other suspension and powertrain upgrades. As a 'vette enthusiast, I want the baddest car for the price range - even if it is not the most technological vehicle.

I am betting the ZR-1 crowd will agree...

Dan

 

[LongTimer]

Re: Super Vette

I can't help but get some bleed thru here from the "Corvette as it's own Brand" thread. In that vein....

If Corvette was a brand, then yes, I'd really go for an all out Corvette, with styling along the lines of a Mosler MT900S, Lamborghini Gallardo, or Ferrarri 360.

Make it the baddest on the planet at half the cost. A dream come true.

C'ya
D

Yes, this belongs in the "own brand Thread"..... and yes, a Mosler tye vehicle would be a good base to start designing the "King of the World" vette that would be the top model in a 3 tier offering.

 

[Rick Daniel]

According to the dealer business center today, the Z16 production is delayed for at least 3 more weeks.