Cat pipes fit and work, got sicker, now horn does not work......

[Bluemill]

To LLC5 and the rest of the Corvette GURUS, my car appears to be fixed after putting on the 2001 cat/pipes assembly. The part fit like a glove, despite the different part number for the 2 different year coupes. So a 2000 coupe can use a 2001 coupe H pipe. Not an easy job to do on jackstands, and alone. Used a small aluminum jack to squeeeze that sucka into place.


Got my Commondebt of Massachusetts safety/emissions sticker for the last time, in that at 15 model years old emissions are not a sticker killer! Yeah for that.


I come home with emergency flashers going I went to toot the horn in celebration....... and that puppy doesn't work. Now I know it worked for the inspection, so I must have popped #11 fuse under the hood?? Nope, it's OK. If you heel the wheel over, right or left, it works. I know it's likely a column ring thing, BUT I hope it has nothing to do with my aggressive spraying of white lithium grease through the firewall grommet-sleeve to stop the steering moan. Saw that one from C4C5 Specialist-" EL SUPREMO" of Corvette Technicians. Paul is the man!


Best always,


Bluemill
:cool2:

 

[Bluemill]

Odered part- the mebrane switch, but I'm skeptical

How can it be the memberane- button if it works perfectly with the steering wheel at 90 degrees right or 90 degrees left. It's super sensitive- goes right off in both R or L situations. I checked for voltage straightaway- 12volts were there, but I wonder if I'm losing ground going strait- If you turn the wheel 180 degrees, no horn either. Weird!


Best always,
Bluemill

 

[dadaroo]

Turning the wheel only affects the clockspring. That is most likely your issue, not a ground or membrane.

 

[Bluemill]

That's what I suspected ... but I ordered the membrane.

Most are saying, it's the whacko membrane, so that's the way I went. So, I'll put that in, and likely be in the same boat, then I'll try the clockspring. The factory manual talks about a "horn brush ring" as a component of the steering column. There is no diagram of this nor can I find a part with that name on the GM parts sites. Where I go to work - believe me, I need a horn! I won't be driving that car for the commute until it's fixed.

Best always,

Bluemill

 

[LLC5]

Turning the wheel only affects the clockspring. That is most likely your issue, not a ground or membrane.

Turning the steering wheel does not only affect the clock spring, it can also affect the ground source if something is loose in the column or steering rack and also anything attached to the steering wheel (including the clock spring) which does also include the membrane which are very "touchy" and finicky when they are bad/going bad. All areas need to be properly checked for an accurate diagnosis.

 

[Bluemill]

Thanks LL-C5

So it sounds like I'd be better off it were that membrane. One is in the mail now. I just don't know where the grounds would be. The clockspring I find is described as being for the airbag, and runs for $110-150. Maybe there is a big prominent ground strap under the hood I can pick out that's connected to the steering. The ground for the membrane is a copper slip-on to a male tab on the steering wheel frame.

Best always,

Bluemill

PS: Those wheels look real good on that black roadster!

 

[LLC5]

So it sounds like I'd be better off it were that membrane. One is in the mail now. I just don't know where the grounds would be. The clockspring I find is described as being for the airbag, and runs for $110-150. Maybe there is a big prominent ground strap under the hood I can pick out that's connected to the steering. The ground for the membrane is a copper slip-on to a male tab on the steering wheel frame.

Best always,

Bluemill

PS: Those wheels look real good on that black roadster!

I would have recommended the diagnosis before ordering parts, but since you have them coming when you remove the air bag module I would recommend checking the steering shaft for continuity to ground while rotating the wheel 360*. You can do this with an ohm meter or a test light (I would use a test light myself) with one lead to a known good ground source and the other lead attached to the steering wheel or steering shaft, you will be looking for any open circuits or glitches while turning the wheel. The ground circuit will probably be good, but if you need to diagnose further you do need to know if the ground is good. If the SRS cable reel (or clock spring) was bad you would normally have an SRS code to go with it, but there is always a slight chance that only the horn circuit is bad also, this is why proper diagnosis is critical. Hopefully the membrane will fix your issue. Good luck with it.

 

[Bluemill]

Got the new membrane- for the horn- it did not work.

Instead of dwelling on the failure, I went to really testing grounds and juice repeatedly. Ground is solid all the way around, all the time. I was wrong about the power. Turning the steering wheel left, voltage kicks in at as little as 45 degrees, and stays on past 90 degrees L, while if you turn right, it does not kick on until very close to 90 degrees. So this to me confirms the clockspring, but hey but I'm a banker not a mechanic! At straight, no voltage, and also with the wheel upside down or turned 180 degrees.

I used the old membrane, loose, outside of the air bag casing. Turning the wheel to the right spots, it was very sensitive to blow the horn, just with a little squeeze.

Just want a confirmation from a pro on this....Clockspring? Any other possibilities?

Best always,
Bluemill

 

[dadaroo]

In my parts info it is called a Coil, Steering Column. Most people just call it a clockspring.

 

[LLC5]

Instead of dwelling on the failure, I went to really testing grounds and juice repeatedly. Ground is solid all the way around, all the time. I was wrong about the power. Turning the steering wheel left, voltage kicks in at as little as 45 degrees, and stays on past 90 degrees L, while if you turn right, it does not kick on until very close to 90 degrees. So this to me confirms the clockspring, but hey but I'm a banker not a mechanic! At straight, no voltage, and also with the wheel upside down or turned 180 degrees.

I used the old membrane, loose, outside of the air bag casing. Turning the wheel to the right spots, it was very sensitive to blow the horn, just with a little squeeze.

Just want a confirmation from a pro on this....Clockspring? Any other possibilities?

Best always,
Bluemill

If the ground is good at the column (hopefully you weren't using the column for a ground to test for power as you don't know if you lost power or ground with a bad reading) then the next part below the steering wheel is the canceling cam (as Paul noted in your post at CM) which can get carbon build up on it or warped. Remove your steering wheel and do a close visual on the cancelling cam and spring tension for the button. Good luck with it.

 

[Bluemill]

Battle with the wheel finally won.....

I had to get "invasive" in order to get the wheel off. The KD wheel puller was still by best option, but it needed a good bite on both sides to do the job. It had torn through the original 3/16ths of aluminum on the right side, and today I tried pulling with one side, but that didn't cut it. Bizarre how the aluminum shredded- and they are sharp little pieces of metal. I also took out the lower trim panel and plastic column trim off around the stalks. I then put a flat head punch on the back and hit the wheel skelleton with a small hammer with short blows- like an impact wrench, turning it every 20 taps or so. Nothing. I also put it down all the way, and yanked, with my arms and my knees. Nope.

I then surmised that I'd either drill big holes in the SW frame, then tap them, which required metric bolts or SAE taps, and a lot of skill, which likely would lead to damaging the clockspring case. Or, it looked like there was a good sharp edge, deep inside the puller holes, but next to or flush with the same plastic clockspring case. So either way the CS case was in the way, and it's replaceable for $110-150, while the wheel is $350, and the old one is still serviceable. A good point here is that the metal all the way through the wheel frame at the original pull holes is like 3/8 thick too- probably needed with as tight as that thing was on. It wasn't easy hearing the case crack on the clockspring, but I was soon rewarded by the solid foot hold on both sides for pulling.

It wasn't immediate, I had to try it 3 times before I got a good strait pull but it finally let out a crack like a rifle, and she was off. Then the snap ring - with my new snap ring pliers-NOT. I ended up using a small screwdriver and needle nose pliers.

So now I have to figure how to get the white nylon plate off, but it was dinner time- so had to quit. Behind that piece, is the answer to the horn mystery.
Does the cancelling plate just silde off of the splines, or is there ring on that too?

Best always,

Bluemill

 

[dadaroo]

See if this helps. If not I can pull out the FSM.

**DIY Steering Wheel Removal and clock spring** - Corvette Forum

 

[Bluemill]

So Daderoo, you still think it's the clockspring huh?

Well that's good because I ordered a new one. Just in case, I'm going deeper so that I can get the the spring and the cancelling cam off to check those out too. The other 2 parts were short money, so why not. I have gotten to removal of the clock spring phase, but the circlip that holds on the lock plate is nasty.

Best,

Bluemill