Help! Clicking in rear end

[joshwilson3]

I really hate "they say this, they say that" comments. Who says? What's "their" reasoning? Give me a basis and/or some theory behind "their" claims. "they" are the source of SO much internet mis-information.

Here's what I think...

Yes it is there to prevent the annoying "clicking"...which is caused by the splined spindle rotating inside the matching splined hub. Originally the spindle did not tighten up against the hub well enough to prevent the spindle from slightly rotating within the hub (there is a small amount of "play" in the splines). The washer takes up the small space originally left between the spindle and hub, allowing the spindle to now pull tightly up against the hub, and preventing the spindle from rotating inside the hub when the driver changes direction (reverse to drive for example). The "clicking" sound comes from the splines between spindle and hub making contact when the spindle rotates within the hub. The large hollow drive shaft makes a very nice resonant chamber, making for a rather loud and obnoxious "klinking" sound.

The washer is not a "wear part", as there is no movement between the two parts that it sits between, and should for no reason at all ever need replacing (unless like in the case of my car it just wasn't there!). Even if say the hub nut wasn't tightened to spec, the movement between spindle and hub is SO small...it would take years to wear that washer out.

Edit: Sorry really didn't mean to come off a-hole-ish with that first comment...I just like to have REASONS for claims.

If it wasn't a wear item. Then I don't see why it would be recommended to replace them then. Look at this link. You can see where the washer has worn.

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Corvette ©2010 Amos Auto Enthusiast - Amos Publishing

The washer I pulled was worn compared to the new washer.

I guess it comes down to, if you have it all apart. If you are willing or not to spend the $7 and replace the washer.

 

[TedC]

I don't think the washer coating prevents the clicking. Without this spacer, regardless of what you torque the spindle nut down to, not enough pressure gets applied to bearings. So you end up with play which can cause the splines to click and wear. The proper washer (spacer) has a curved edge on the inside circle to properly mate with the spindle curve. That click click click can be caused by a loose spindle nut, worn bearings, worn/dry CV joints, worn spindle (splines), or a worn/missing washer.

 

[joshwilson3]

I don't think the washer coating prevents the clicking. Without this spacer, regardless of what you torque the spindle nut down to, not enough pressure gets applied to bearings. So you end up with play which can cause the splines to click and wear. The proper washer (spacer) has a curved edge on the inside circle to properly mate with the spindle curve. That click click click can be caused by a loose spindle nut, worn bearings, worn/dry CV joints, worn spindle (splines), or a worn/missing washer.

From what I've read. That Teflon coated washer helps prevent the click noise caused by the play in the spindle. I'm sure they put that Teflon coating on there for a reason.

There have been alot of people curing a click by replacing that washer. Though, I'm sure they probably also greased the splines as well.

But yes other things can cause clicks like rusty splines, etc. If I had it all apart, I'd just spend the $7 and replace the washer. Obviously it can wear so might as well since it is torn apart.

 

[TedC]

The washer I pulled was worn compared to the new washer.

You did the right thing in replacing these washers if they were worn. Your rear hubs must of been pretty bad to have that much play. My washers (spacers) did not show any signs of wear.

 

[geekinavette]

How do we know its "worn out"? What's the thickness compared to a new one? Yeah it looks rusted...maybe the hub nut wasn't tight enough (or worn bearings or whatever) and the protective coating wore off (whatever that coating is...zinc, teflon...whatever).

With that said...you're absolutely right though, for a few bucks and the amount of work to get to it...it ain't worth fussing over! If it looks like crap, just get some new ones and be done with it. When I tore into mine it didn't even have that washer...and the "klinking" was just maddening. It has not made a peep since adding that washer!

Now for a sidetrack...browsing through that magazine link...I had to change my shirt after the "Cherry Bomb" on pg 33 cuz I freakin slobbered all over the place! Damn that thing is gorgeous.

Ok back to the regularly scheduled debate...

 

[geekinavette]

I don't think the washer coating prevents the clicking. Without this spacer, regardless of what you torque the spindle nut down to, not enough pressure gets applied to bearings. So you end up with play which can cause the splines to click and wear. The proper washer (spacer) has a curved edge on the inside circle to properly mate with the spindle curve. That click click click can be caused by a loose spindle nut, worn bearings, worn/dry CV joints, worn spindle (splines), or a worn/missing washer.

Very well put...totally agree.

 

[TedC]

If the washer (spacer) is worn thin when compared to a new one, then my guess would be something is wrong with the bearing assembly. Did you save the old hub that had the bad washer?

 

[joshwilson3]

You did the right thing in replacing these washers if they were worn. Your rear hubs must of been pretty bad to have that much play. My washers (spacers) did not show any signs of wear.

I've still got the old hub and washer. I don't know if the washer is worn out. But you could see where it looks like it has spun. Since it was apart, I replaced it regardless as it has been recommended to replace it. The splines on the spindle hardly had any rust.

The reason why I replaced the driver rear hub was a few times I had drove around with the radio off. I noticed a click when I take off and come to a stop. And sometimes I'd hear a knock from the rear every once in a while. And over 15 mph, I'd hear a wirrrrrring or hummmmm sound. It did wobble some at the 12 and 6 oclock.

So, I figured some or most of that must of been the driver rear hub. I checked the passenger side and it was fine. But I guess I didn't check it good enough, as I checked it again, and it too was a little loose. Though, I had it at a shop and told them to torque the spindle nuts down to 185 ft/lbs. So, I'll double check that torque on the passenger side.

Those rear caliper bracket bolts were a pain at 70 ft/lbs. I've got to do the front rotors as well and the front caliper bracket bolts are 165 ft/lbs. I'll try and see if my $30 Kobalt impact wrench has enough room to try and break those bolts. If so, then I'll probably use it to tighten the bolts down a good way. I guess I'll need to get a cheater bar.

 

[WhalePirot]

Junk, et. al. UR a treasure, atop all the other helpfuls.

I am doing my first, of four, probably; all '84s. What size is that torx and can you really get to all three w/o removing the half shaft? Actually, the adapter plate for the Effie may preclude getting to two of them, and it may well be best to just replace all unknown-mileage U joints, starting fresh.

I'll be interested to see if there are any washers and while my Vette has always been in SoCal, the other suspension, the '84 parts going on the old Effie has plenty of rust (shades of WI childhood).

I was able to use good old yellow-can penetrating oil, some drops and a couple of hours of soak time, then with the tire sitting on the ground, easily broke the rusty one free with a 3/4" drive breaker bar and medium muscle.

On the Vette, I badly bent two crow bars into titanium and steel pretzels w/o the tires grounded + broke a 1/2" breaker bar.. still no break-free.

Teflon is such a soft plastic, I don't see how it could do anything to help the clicking.

TIA

 

[joshwilson3]

Junk, et. al. UR a treasure, atop all the other helpfuls.

I am doing my first, of four, probably; all '84s. What size is that torx and can you really get to all three w/o removing the half shaft? Actually, the adapter plate for the Effie may preclude getting to two of them, and it may well be best to just replace all unknown-mileage U joints, starting fresh.

I'll be interested to see if there are any washers and while my Vette has always been in SoCal, the other suspension, the '84 parts going on the old Effie has plenty of rust (shades of WI childhood).

I was able to use good old yellow-can penetrating oil, some drops and a couple of hours of soak time, then with the tire sitting on the ground, easily broke the rusty one free with a 3/4" drive breaker bar and medium muscle.

On the Vette, I badly bent two crow bars into titanium and steel pretzels w/o the tires grounded + broke a 1/2" breaker bar.. still no break-free.

Teflon is such a soft plastic, I don't see how it could do anything to help the clicking.

TIA

The washer is metal. It is just coated with Telfon.

I believe the torx is a T-55. Yes you should be able to get to all 3 bolts without removing the halfshaft. You just have to put it in neutral and spin the shaft so you can get to all 3 bolts. Not sure if you can do that and use an impact wrench.

But if you are that far, I'd just replace the ujoints as that would be the best time to do it. Clean the spline with a brass brush to remove any rust. Take a wire wheel to the ujoint strap bolts to clean off the old drilock and use blue thread lock when you install it.

The halfshaft is really easy to get out. I only unbolted 2 things from the knuckle. This is what I went by.

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Corvette*©2010*Amos Auto Enthusiast - Amos Publishing=

Follow the order by removing the end link first, then the tie rod. When it goes back together. Jack the knuckle up and press in while you push the tie rod all the way back into its hole. Then torque to spec and then install the endlink.

In that article, they show tapping the endlink out of the way. But that may ruin the upper bushing. So, I'd just remove the whole endlink. That would be a good time to just replace the bushings for the rear sway bar.

 

[WhalePirot]

I believe the torx is a T-55. Yes you should be able to get to all 3 bolts without removing the halfshaft. You just have to put it in neutral and spin the shaft so you can get to all 3 bolts.

Thanks. I did the u-joints on the Vette long ago, back when I went to full Heim-joints.

Pages 77-81: Corvette*©2010*Amos Auto Enthusiast - Amos Publishing=

TY again. I just printed that and have the FSM as well. Nice to have the torque settings but the wrench sizes..... Of course, the largest I have is a T-50.

Having plenty inve$ted in the truck, I'd be nuts not to renew the U's while it is at this stage of assembly.

 

[joshwilson3]

Thanks. I did the u-joints on the Vette long ago, back when I went to full Heim-joints.

TY again. I just printed that and have the FSM as well. Nice to have the torque settings but the wrench sizes..... Of course, the largest I have is a T-50.

Having plenty inve$ted in the truck, I'd be nuts not to renew the U's while it is at this stage of assembly.

Yeah, it's one of those things that depends if the ujoints are original or not. And if the person who is doing it has the extra money and decides to go ahead and do the ujoints as well. It just depends on the situation.

I'd recommend getting a good T-55. I think you can get them by themselves at Autozone with liftime warranty. That way if it breaks, you can exchange it for another one. Though, I had a Stanley set that had the T-55 torx.

I couldn't break those bolts loose as the wrench just kept slipping off the bolt when trying to turn it. So, I got a cheap impact wrench and had the hub bolts out in just a few minutes.

What ujoints are you going with? Spicer has discontinued the ujoints for the C4. The only thing they have are ujoints with uncoated caps that are for steel shafts. Though, I did read someone mention a different Spicer coated joint that is supposed to work for the halfshafts. Though Spicer didn't give me that number when I had called them about the C4 ujoints.

I ended up just going with Neapco Brute Force from Advance.