climate control lights

[rkortge]

Is my 81 supposed to light up the climate control panel? Its dark and wondering if there is a bulb that's out?
Rich

 

[6880 Mike]

No. The HVAC controls are not back lit. There is a tiny light at the top of the console above the cluster for this purpose.

 

[bill81vette]

You will only see it when it Is dark out....

 

[rkortge]

Thanks

 

[Lakeside49]

Thanks

I replaced my climate control downfire bulb with an LED, and drilled the downfire hole to be about 25% larger. It is a beautiful thing to actually make out the climate controls at night. Its the one thing on the C3 that is a sure sign that Zora Arkus Duntoff never test drove his prototypes at night for some reason - or he would have noticed the poor design immediately and challenged the obviously novice lighting engineer to make the downfire lighting hole to be large enough to actually light up the climate controls. It is a very easy DIY fix that, oddly enough is not posted on any forums so I had to `invent' it myself. Lucked out.

 

[Peer81]

I replaced my climate control downfire bulb with an LED, and drilled the downfire hole to be about 25% larger. It is a beautiful thing to actually make out the climate controls at night. Its the one thing on the C3 that is a sure sign that Zora Arkus Duntoff never test drove his prototypes at night for some reason - or he would have noticed the poor design immediately and challenged the obviously novice lighting engineer to make the downfire lighting hole to be large enough to actually light up the climate controls. It is a very easy DIY fix that, oddly enough is not posted on any forums so I had to `invent' it myself. Lucked out.

Do you have a picture of the result in the dark without flash? I sure like the sounds of it

Greetings Peter

 

[frank_nesta]

I replaced my climate control downfire bulb with an LED, and drilled the downfire hole to be about 25% larger. It is a beautiful thing to actually make out the climate controls at night. Its the one thing on the C3 that is a sure sign that Zora Arkus Duntoff never test drove his prototypes at night for some reason - or he would have noticed the poor design immediately and challenged the obviously novice lighting engineer to make the downfire lighting hole to be large enough to actually light up the climate controls. It is a very easy DIY fix that, oddly enough is not posted on any forums so I had to `invent' it myself. Lucked out.

So what I hear you saying, Zora got the important stuff right.

 

[Lakeside49]

Do you have a picture of the result in the dark without flash? I sure like the sounds of it

Greetings Peter

Here you go - this was taken this evening. I installed 5 DIM `warm' LED lights in the gauge body a few weeks ago, and a basic Federal Mogul (Wagner brand, I think) LED in the downfire socket after drilling it out about 25%. You might think that it looks bright in the picture that was taken with an iPhone 6, but in actuality it is a very pleasant, easy on the eyes basic brightness level while driving in the car at night. It is not as bright as the instrumentation in my new Ford Taurus, but it is perfect for me in my C3. I need to do the same for the speedo/tach one of these days. Hope this helps, as requested.

Dave

 

[Lakeside49]

So what I hear you saying, Zora got the important stuff right.

Yes - there comes a point when you have to trust your team. I am in the automotive manufacturing industry and this sub-par OE lighting design would never pass muster in a hundred years because there are now specs that test every detail of a details called "WCR" at Ford (world class requirements). The world class "photometric levels" are strictly prescribed to the levels that countless consumer testers claimed was their ideal. They did go to this extent on quality/desirability in old days. Zora literally should have caught the deficiency in the lighting, but I would bet that they entrusted a lower level engineer and did not drive the car for testing purposes at night or they would have noticed and corrected it. The climate control lighting downfire opening, for instance, would have cost GM virtually nothing to have the supplier open it a notch during the design reviews to achieve better lighting. The books all say that Zora was mostly interested in performance. If it didn't affect racing level performance it is written (i.e. Dave McClellan's excellent book) he wasn't engaged or interested. My two cents.

Dave

 

[Antz81]

Here you go - this was taken this evening. I installed 5 DIM `warm' LED lights in the gauge body a few weeks ago, and a basic Federal Mogul (Wagner brand, I think) LED in the downfire socket after drilling it out about 25%. You might think that it looks bright in the picture that was taken with an iPhone 6, but in actuality it is a very pleasant, easy on the eyes basic brightness level while driving in the car at night. It is not as bright as the instrumentation in my new Ford Taurus, but it is perfect for me in my C3. I need to do the same for the speedo/tach one of these days. Hope this helps, as requested.

Dave

Looks good to me.
Might look at doing this on mine when i replace the dash.

 

[6880 Mike]

...Its the one thing on the C3 that is a sure sign that Zora Arkus Duntoff never test drove his prototypes at night for some reason...

Zora Duntov had retired from GM before your car came out. You can't blame him for 77-82 HVAC illumination.

 

[Lakeside49]

History Lesson?

Zora Duntov had retired from GM before your car came out. You can't blame him for 77-82 HVAC illumination.

Mike, I've learned an awful lot from you these past couple of years, sir. For once, your turn?
I disagree that Zora was not in charge at the time the `77-`82 lighting system was conceived/approved. I've lifted info from the Corvette history books as you recommended reading.
The issue, as scribed almost monthly forum members with dim instrument lighting complaints, isn't just limited to the C3's weak downfire light that illuminates the HVAC controls. It is the entire cockpit illumination system... which was overseen by Zora Arkus Duntov, without a shadow of the slightest doubt. It started with the `68 and carried through the `82. The `77 - `82 design, released in the early Fall of 1976 would have been frozen two years before Job 1, meaning that it definitely happened on Zora's watch before he retired the year before the `77 model debut. In those days, even a moderate refresh was easily allowed at least 30-36 mos. Bottom line, the entire C3 program's poor instrumentation illumination shortcomings happened on his watch. He had underlings who lasted well into the C4 as Dave McLellan denotes per the attachment, and Zora was/is fully responsible for their training, and end product on the C3s. Having been on the production planning side of the house of an OEM, I personally believe that he preferred to avoid driving at night or he would have caught it with his extreme attention to detail - and, that is the only way he would have caught it. Nobody would have wanted to come to him with something that would add time or cost to correct (weak HVAC downfire light design) and his heart & soul was in the powertrain, braking, suspension and steering systems, anyway (attachment). Corvette driver comfort was a renown secondary objective for Zora - high performance was his mission per the "history books" you wisely recommended. He was a legend and genius in his day and thank God he was around to almost single handedly spawn our beloved C3 hobby. But, the one gripe I have is the shortcomings in the instrumentation lighting across the C3 series which started on Zora's watch. Yes, McLellan could've, should've fixed it at least for the `78 model where he started to have a hand in things, but you'll recall from his "Corvette - From the Inside" book that he had his hands more than full with meeting the formidable government emissions and fuel economy requirements so that they could continue to sell C3's, and just as significantly, most of his focus was on the C4 of which he is the undisputed `father.' He was also dealing with idiotic wastes of time such as resisting the Wankel engine proposal. He didn't have time to dink around with the C3 lighting systems he inherited from his predecessor. He had bigger fish to fry.

We're lucky to have you on this forum! So, I took your advice and read up.

 

[frank_nesta]

OK already. I have driven my 1977 for 38 years and never thought once about that light. In my opinion it did its job. I never said once it need a better light and that I could not operate the climate controls. For many of those years I drove it day and night without a problem using the climate controls.

I still believe that Zora and his engineers got it mostly right on the things that count and trying to keep within the bounds of mother GM. Old cars do not operate to today's standards. If you want them to, modify them and enjoy the fun of upgrading your car. Stand back and smile at your accomplishments.

OK, I said my piece or is it peace? Good night and enjoy you rides. Nuff said or reply!

 

[6880 Mike]

Lakeside: we can agree to disagree. Keep in mind Zora Duntov had a lot of things he had to live with and could not change. He had to work with what he was given.

 

[Peer81]

@dave, looks great in the picture! And enough light on the climate control panel. I wanted to put warm leds in mine a few years ago till i saw the price back then so i went back to bulbs. Great to see the perfect result!

Greetings Peter