Convertible top headaches

[69MyWay]

One of the best top companies in the area just closed up his doors for good (of his store front that is), and will full mobile. I spoke with him and he does all jobs on site. He told me to get the top frame restored, painted, lubricated, and mounted on the car. He told me the top from Paragon and all mounting hardware is fine. If I can't handle it my self, he said he could come to me and do it in about four hours.


So, we are getting better! He also said he can professionaly install my seat covers and make them look perfect.

 

[jsimpson]

I may have to come up to Orange Park and get him to do mine! Is he providing all the materials (padding, nailing strips, etc) other than the top?

 

[69MyWay]

I may have to come up to Orange Park and get him to do mine! Is he providing all the materials (padding, nailing strips, etc) other than the top?

Actually, the new top with nailing strips, felt, stainless corner tabs, and straps was $215, less 15%, or $182.75 for everything. The installer would supply the tacks, glue, and expertise!

He told me he has done two old vettes in the last month. He also did an impala last week. He said not to sweat the bend over tabs as they often rust out, so he will use some epoxy/glue to put the tack strip in place.

I will let you guys know.

 

[Vettes Forever!]

My flop-top experience is a little off-thread (I didn't do the job myself) but should be of interest.

After we had our new '98 roadster (white top) about a year I noticed a CUT developing about two inches behind the passenger-side window and two inches above the body ... in other words, right in the corner where the top bends into the hardest folds when it's down.

My first thought was the first thing that the Chevrolet service writer said: "somebody cut your top!"

But a close examination revealed that the cut was obviously FROM THE INSIDE, OUT.

Peeling back the headliner revealed a sharp-pointed trim screw which had to be the culprit.

"No problem" he says, and they order a new top from GM under warranty.

The new top arrives and the car is trundled off to the upholstery shop that does all their warranty work on both tops and upholstery. I pick up the new top at the parts counter and take it and the car to the upholstery guy myself, pointing the problem out in great detail to both the owner and guy who will do the work.

The shop owner pats me on the head, and says "trust us".

Car comes back with top looking great.

Then, a few months later, a new cut appears, in the same place as the first one, again from the inside out. Obviously, they didn't fix the core problem.

Same process. Dealer orders a SECOND new top on warranty for the same car. (I thought sure that would blow a fuze in a GM computer somewhere, but it didn't. Maybe GM is so big it'll only notice the really BIG buck items!)

This time I insisted on MY choice of outside vendor; the shop in another town about thirty miles away who has the best auto top/upholstery reputation in this part of the state. (In fact auto tops/upholstery are all they do; no sofas in his shop!) Again, same routine: I take it there myself, point out the problem out in great detail to both the owner and guy who will do the work. And wait ALL day for the car. They seem less inclined to pat me on the head and say "trust us" this time, but rather will look to find out for sure, AND FIX, whatever the damned problem is.

That's been about six months now, and so far, so good. No cuts on the THIRD top yet.

This hasn't cost ME anything yet, but instead it's cost ALL of us, as obviously GM passes on the costs of ALL this sort of chinese fire drill warranty work episodes to ALL customers.

I shouldn't be complaining ... I've got a four and a half year old car with a near-new top on it at no cost.

And I'm not really unhappy that the top getting cut the first time... that sort of thing can happen.

But I AM unhappy about whatever system (if any!) that GM has to report unsatisfactory product events. During my years in the Air Force, if you saw something that could be done better, you were STRONGLY encouraged (really, required) to submit what were called "U.R.'s" (Unsatisfactory Reports). They were submitted on ALL sorts of things, very often things that should have been to the designer of the "DUH! Why didn't WE think of that!" variety. Plain, obvious improvements. Like a pointed screw so long that it interfered with, and cut, cloth.

U.R. submitters were often rewarded in signifcant cash awards for the really good ones that saved big bucks.

As near as I can tell, G.M. has nothing to match that system of follow up on their products.

If they have a system at all.

Fred

 

[jsimpson]

Lemme know how it turns out; if it's good, I'll be makin'a trip to Orange Park before the year's out!
Will he do a Hartz cloth top?

 

[Gunther]

Hi
Your top frames look like my one did. The header was badly corroded, the tak strip was rotten away. I had to make up a new one .
As the guys already mentioned, the top has to be installed to the car and adjusted in order to get the canvas installed correctly.
I did my 68 convertible canvas myself and it was the first one I ever did. Came out very good, so not too difficult if your patient.
Only the aft windshield is slightly wrinkled, only visible from outside. No way I could get writ of this wrinkles.
May be you let us know how yours comes out.
I ordered from ZIP and it was a AK INTERIORS ' AL KNOCH ' canvas kit. It came with installation instructions.
Don't forget to install new seals. I got them from ORANGE COAST.
( 119.95 winter 2000/2001 )
Good luck. Gunther

 

[jsimpson]

Gunther, "canvas kit" intrigues me! Is it hartz cloth (a synthetic woven canvas-like material), or vinyl?

 

[bioandy]

Curious to see how you proceed with the top, as a new top for my '70 is on the list.

Planning to do the work myself at this point. (Maybe next year)My only other experience was a recent new top for my wife's 65 Corvair. Aside from it being a Chevy, the similarity ends, but the experience gave me a new outlook and respect for convertible top replacement.

As for the Vette top. I was told that many adjustments to fit the top were part of the car body. Door window adjustments, and possibly door adjustment and body weatherstripping all become part of the final fit. Wouldn't imagine a shop could guarantee fit without the car.

I vote for "do it yourself." Not only won't you have to give up your car, but you'll become the expert for next time. The only problem is time - plan on many hours - my guess for first time.
I'm sure your wallet could use a break too.

Good Luck.

 

[69MyWay]

I am 100% convinced now that the frame has to be on the car to make it work right.

Last night I dropped the top frame off along with the modified (to clear the side pipe) rocker panels to be clean, prepped, welding in some spots, and powder coated.

Right now we don't know to what extent the top can be powder coated with the hinges assembled. I don't want to take it apart, so we will consider media blasting, and good quality epoxy type paint.

He will call. At this time we are looking at 2-3 weeks. No hurry on that, as my wheels are not here yet anyway.


The rockers won't be a problem getting a good semi gloss powder coating.

 

[jsimpson]

I polished my rocker panels and clear powder coated them. didn't work out too well.

 

[Gunther]

Hi jsimpson

No, my canvas is not hartz cloth. It is more like vinyl with embaded woven cloth. I ordered via ZIP and it arrived directly from Al Knoch. Al Knoch is suppost to be a very reputable soft top manufacturer ( aren't they even used by GM ? ) .
I have not seen a C3 with hartz cloth soft top so far ?
Gunther

 

[jsimpson]

Gunther, it sure would be a lot easier for me to use an Al Knoch top since I'd probably have to get a Hartz cloth top custom made!
-John

 

[Tom Bryant]

I see that this subject has been pretty well covered but from having the top in and out of my '59 several times I can say with absolute certainty that you need to install the restored top frame with weatherstrips and seals attached into the car. Make all adjustments for windows, bow height ext. following the body service manual instructions until it fits and operates perfectly. Then, and only then, will you be ready to install the top and padding. Try Al Knock for an installation video. I'm sure that if you apply the same dedication to perfection that you have displayed on the rest of the car that you can do the top yourself.

If you do take it to a shop and have the frame in and adjusted they shouldn't need it very long. You could probably wait on it and watch what they are doing.

Tom

 

[69MyWay]

top came in the mail today. It is a Knoch brand top. The frame is still MIA over at the speed shop.

No hurries at the moment.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Forget the top. Chop the windshield and call it a McSpeedster.

 

[69MyWay]

:L

 

[69MyWay]

Got the top frame back from the welding/powder coating shop last night. Man, it looks SCHWEEEET. Total cost to blast, weld, powder coat the top, and even my rocker covers was $250.

I will post some pics soon.


Here is my question. The upper bar was pretty pitted after blasting it, so it had some indentions on the upper surface. The powerder coating sealed and covered it all, but you can see the indentions where the little rust pockets were.

Can the top be installed right over that, or will the imperfection show through the material?

 

[jsimpson]

I doubt that it will show through. The top is stretched pretty tight.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Chris,

I'm betting that the indentions will show once the top is stretched over them. I would fill them and shape the contour to the rest of the bow. Better safe than sorry.

Tom

 

[69MyWay]

I will check that out Tom.