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Dumping the hydraulics-???

69MyWay

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2001
Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
Clock is ticking. I have basically two weekends left to square of the last minute details before Sharkfest.

As many of you know, I have been battling clutch problems. Still not sure until I get the Quartermaster returned for an inspection exactly why/what is causing it to slip.

I love the hydraulic conversion. My pedal effort is smooth, clean, neat, and there are no engine vibrations, rattles coming through the pedal of the standard Z bar design.

However, I am concerned at least with the LUK clutch I just put in the car to get me going that I will have problems again soon. This is why. The hydraulic release bearing uses shims between the trans and bearing to get about 1/4" clearance with the clutch fingers. As the clutch wears, this space goes away causing the release bearing to end up riding on the fingers=slip=angry Vette owner.

The LUK clutch was so close when I installed it that it required zero shims. That means there is nothing to remove later as that disc wears in place, meaning a future trans removal and head scratching session.

So, just kind of thinking out loud here. The car felt great last sunday afternoon for the little bit I could drive with a non-charging alternator around the block. The LUK clutch is smooth, tight, and quiet. However, you can just tip toe the clutch pedal and it releases way at the top.

My thoughts......Yank the trans AGAIN this Saturday morning or at least get it started over the next couple of nights. Remove the hydraulic bearing, swap it with a standard release bearing, install the ball stud and clutch fork, install the ball stud on the engine block, install the Z bar, remove all the Sweet hydraulic stuff from the firewall and pedal/swap with linkages, and set up with a full standard clutch....for now (until the six speed comes back in the picture). I am thinking I would leave the resevoir on the firewall as that will come back in handing with the Richmond as I fully intend to run that as a hydraulic (got to sell something around here first so I can buy the thing).

Or...just let it ride like it is until it actually does wear enough to slip, then look into the six speed.
 

69MyWay

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2001
Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
One thing I meant to add. I think I know why my hydraulic system is so tight. I replaced the front bearing retainer on the trans. The replacement I used might have been thicker than the stock unit. This would naturally push the bearing closer to the clutch.

Still thinking......
 
V

vmrod

Guest
...and I thought that I was busy!!

Yesterday, I re-installed the last segment of exhaust pipe on my car. The fit was not so good (exhaust leak), but it is adequate enough for me to drive around the block, and eventually take it in to an exhaust shop once I have those sidepipes ready.

Ever since I installed a Muskegon composite spring, I noticed that the car sits higher now. I unscrewed the leaf spring nut, so that it is all the way at the bottom. I have a hole drilled in the nut, and a cotter pin inserted, so it will not come off. (It happened once with my old spring...not fun!) I called Muskegon, and they said that the spring should settle an inch or so. I noticed that Vette Brakes sells 10" long bolts (I have 8"). That would do the trick, but I want to see how much the car settles first.

I should hopefully have my rebuilt power steering pump today. And with time permitting, install it this evening or tomorrow. I'll start on the interior in another week or so. I won my ebay bid, so I'll have fun trying to install a 1978 glove box in place of my map pocket.

Chris,
what did you use for insulation in your car?
 

69MyWay

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2001
Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
@#@!! !#@#@!@ !@#@#$%%

Okay, I decided to dump the whole thing. I dug out the old mechanical junk this a.m. and laid it out on the bench.

I will start yanking the trans tonight, and hope to slip it back together by Wed night.

I am having to get some replacement parts on the clutch linkage.


I will have the entire hydraulic system laid out soon. I might as well dropped $500 in a garbage can and lit it on fire.


I can't believe I am caving in, but time is too short before the show to keep fooling with it. I spent about 15 minutes at NAPA this a.m. looking at different slave cylinders to figure out a way to keep the master in there.

VMROD, I double insulated with the foil back and the regular matting.
 
V

vmrod

Guest
Chris,
keep the hydraulics on the side for now. You can always tinker with it again after Sharkfest.
 

69MyWay

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2001
Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
Hmmmm, this is getting interesting.

#1, I have just proved that I can yank the trans in less than an hour with time to yap on the phone, pick my nose...etc.

#2, I inspected the bearing retainer. I had JUST replaced this before putting it in for the first time as the stock one was worn. The fellow I bought it from told me that with the hydraulic release bearing, it did not matter if it was worn because it slides on its own shaft. Well, darnit!, I wanted it to all be fresh.

#3, I have not taken a specific measurement, but if you look at the photos below you will see that the one on the left is the stock G.M. unit (good thing I did not throw it away), and the one on the right is the replacement.

#4, If you look close, you will see the final resting snout is taller on the replacement. This HAS to be why I can't get enough free play in there.

#5, Call me crazy, but I am putting the old snout back on and reinstalling. If all goes well I should have the extra free play we need to keep from riding the clutch.

#6----If not, I will be seeing if I can't yank the trans in about 20 minutes the next time.
 
V

vmrod

Guest
I have finally learned NOT to throw those old parts away. No matter what! :nono
Fortunately, I was able to find my old exhaust pipe last week and reinstall it. (Now I can run my car!!) Of course, it doesn't look, perform, or sound anything like Bobchad's!, but hey....it get's me forward!
 
L

Ls1smlblck

Guest
have finally learned NOT to throw those old parts away. No matter what!
Ditto I learned that also when I was rebuilding the 700r4. I had use the original stator shaft because the supposed OEM replacement was the same. The replacement was bigger and later found out they no longer carry the one for my year tranny. The old one was still in good shape and some light sand cleaned/smoothed things up.
 

Jack

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 27, 2000
Messages
1,825
Location
Florence, SC (Timmonsville SC)
Corvette
71 War Bonnet Yellow VERT 71 BH Blue CPE (SOLD)
/Chris ...#3, I have not taken a specific measurement, but if you look at the photos below you will see that the one on the left is the stock G.M. unit (good thing I did not throw it away), and the one on the right is the replacement.

#4, If you look close, you will see the final resting snout is taller on the replacement. This HAS to be why I can't get enough free play in there.

#5, Call me crazy, but I am putting the old snout back on and reinstalling. If all goes well I should have the extra free play we need to keep from riding the clutch.

Well did replacing snout give your release bearing some wiggle room ... could you have a machinist chuck a snout up & turned down a bit near the flange?
JACK:gap
 

69MyWay

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2001
Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
Ah, the parts showed today to convert back to the Z bar and have all new pins/bushings/springs etc.

Butttttt, I am back on the hydraulics. Nikki is the most awesome helper. With her tiny hands and ability to contort her body under the car, we had the trans back in, then out, then in, then out a dozen times tonight. Finally settled on the stock retainer as mentioned above with NO shims.

Just dropped her on the floor, fired it up and rolled it back and forth a bit. I get a good solid release a few inches off the floor and nice solid bite by a few inches from the top.

Now, if my stupid replacement alternator would get here I would be in business for some weekend cruising.
 

Jack

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 27, 2000
Messages
1,825
Location
Florence, SC (Timmonsville SC)
Corvette
71 War Bonnet Yellow VERT 71 BH Blue CPE (SOLD)
washers betwixt block & bellhousing?

Chris:
Virtually all of the circle track late model cars & trucks around here use the hydraulic release bearing. I'm helping with a few of the circle track trucks & late models. All have small blocks & Richmond 4 spd. All the trucks run small multi-disk (motorcycle-type) clutch packs. I see that all of them in the shop have a spacer (washers) between bellhousing & block. Some of those also have rear motor mount plates betwixt ... some not. Either way, moving trans back from block a washer's width might provide needed free play between bearing & pressure plate ... also will ventilate clutch pack (dunno if xtra air/grime's good for street use) ... while stilll providing sufficient penetration into pilot.
JACK:gap
 

69MyWay

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2001
Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
Jack,

I thought about that, but was also worried about the pilot. Actually, Nikki came up with the idea.

It is no doubt a simple direct and immediate way to create free play.

The truth is the hydraulic release bearing is an awesome piece. It is truly a clever way of doing the clutch work that is visually neat and clean, and smooth as glass on the pedal.

We will see how it plays out when I run some miles up on it this weekend.
 

69MyWay

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2001
Messages
4,364
Location
Auburndale, Florida
Corvette
1969 Killer Shark
Just finished logging a tad over 100 miles on the car. Took it out to eat at the local Japanese Steak House, then for a long cruise all the way to the beach and back (the long way)-went further west first. I was ready to bring it home after the trip way-west, but Nikki said and I quote "I did not sit in the frickin garage watching and helping you build this beast for the last two plus years to park it now! You better get this thing back out on the street and take me for another ride"

When the lady speaks, I listen.

The clutch feels GREAT! I am so thankful I did not dump all the hydraulics (yet).

If all goes well, I will leave Killer (new nickname for the car) alone for a bit while I focus on getting my truck up to speed. The stock am/fm cassett player decided to take a crash the other day. I will go shoping for a decent c.d. player to install in the next couple of days.


See you guys soon!
 
R

RalleyRed

Guest
When the lady speaks, I listen.

Oh you will live a long and happy life Chris.:L

It's good to hear that killer is actually ready. It also sounds like you two are getting real good at tearing her down and redoing things in record time.

Rick
 

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