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Dynamic vs. Static Compression

Achilles

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Joined
Oct 31, 2004
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447
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Back in Sunny California!
Corvette
1982 CE, 03 MY Z06
In reference to the thread "Performance Help", I understand the principles between dynamic and static compression. And I assume when casually discussing compression ratios, we are discussing the static ratio.

I guess what I'm unclear about is Grumpy's post reply that I may have a problem with my dynamic compression being 9.2-9.6. Is this mainly an octane issue that is implied relating to detonation? Please elaborate further.

Also Grump, you suggested that I go no further than 34 deg. "total advance" for my timing. I guess I have been out of the loop for too long since I'm not familiar with that term or the process of setting it. One thing though, I'm learning more new stuff.

Thanks
 
its obvious some of the guys on this site need to understand the differance between static and dynamic compression ratios, and thats understandable as its a difficult concept to grasp at first
but you need to understand it before selecting a combos components

the differance between STATIC COMPRESSION RATIO AND DYNAMIC COMPRESSION RATIO is where the piston is in the cylinder when the valves close and the piston can accually start compressing the REMAINING VOLUUM IN THE CYLINDER VS the STATIC COMPRESSION THAT ASSUMES THE PISTON STARTS COMPRESSING THE INSTANT IT LEAVES BOTTOM DEAD CENTER AND STARTS UPWARD ON THE COMPRESSION STROKE!


let me try and explain, the short version is that the PISTON COMPRESSES NOTHING untill BOTH VALVES ARE CLOSED, .......thats the only compression ratio that matters,.... since its the only compression ratio the engine ever sees.

static compression is simply the differance between the cylinder volume at BOTTOM DEAD CENTER(BDC) and its compressed volume at TOP DEAD CENTER (TDC), into the combustion chambers,... dynamic compression takes into account that on the pistons upward compression stroke the valves have not yet closed and nothing gets compressed by the piston untill they do, that of course depends on the cam and rockers, pistons and connecting rods, the cylinder voluum, the rod/stroke ratio, ETC.,used, in the combo, and the rpm levels to some extent BTW, ALUMINUM HEADS can usually operate at a higher dynamic compression simply because ALUMINUM releases heat to the coolant much faster than iron, its the lower heat levels that remain in the cylinder that help prevent detonation..when you increase the dynamic compression the heat levels in the heads combustion chamber rise , the differance in the RATE heat leaves the cylinder allows a slightly higher dynamic compression level from aluminum before the same HEAT levels are REACHED & MAINTAINED in the combustion chambers

heres a calculator for static cpr, which you need to figure first

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/compstaticcalc.html

or
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calccr.htm

or
http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/compression/compression.shtml
let me point out a few things
first look at this chart

http://www.iskycams.com/ART/techinfo/ncrank1.pdf

then lets assume your 350 sbc engine has a static compression ratio of 11:1 but youve installed this cam

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browsePar...lvl=2&prt=5

looking at the cam specs we see that the effective stroke is not the 3.48" that the static compression ratio is measured from ,at BDC, BUT from about 2.6 inches from tdc where the valves close as the piston moves upward, so your true working compression is closer to 8.1:1 NOT 11:1

heres a longer more detailed explanation and access to the software to figure dynamic cpr with the cam your useing in your engine

http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html

http://www.diamondracing.net/cocalc.htm

heres some differant calculators

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp2

http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php

http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/compression_ratio.php

http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/compression/cranking_pressure.shtml
average the results

keep in mind that you can easilly run a stattic compressio of 11:1 with aluminum heads if you keep the cam timing in a range so that the DYNAMIC COMPRESSION is CLOSE TO 8:1
take the time to understand the concept,it VERY IMPORTANT


read this

http://www.diamondracing.net/cocalc.htm



http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/cam-tech.htm

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/otto-c.htm

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/cam-tech-c.htm

http://kb-silvolite.com/article.php?acti...3117842f4eb4c49

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/rod-tech-c.htm

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/piston_position-c.htm

http://www.iskycams.com/techtips.html#2003

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/rod-tech.htm

http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/detonation/detonation.html

http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/showfla...true#Post397334

if cams are a mystery please take the time to read these, it will get you a good start

http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter/tech/camshaft/1.htm
(read LESSONs 1-8)


http://www.wighat.com/fcr3/confusion.htm

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/95298/

http://www.idavette.net/hib/camcon.htm

http://www.centuryperformance.com/valveadjustment.htm

http://www.totalengineairflow.com/tech/valvelashing.htm

http://www.chevytalk.com/tech/engine/Cam_Selection.html

http://www.chevytalk.com/tech/101/Cam_Theory.html

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar119736.htm



http://www.symuli.com/vw/camp1.html

http://www.symuli.com/vw/camp2.html

http://home.wxs.nl/~meine119/tech/camqa.html

http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/showfla...true#Post200511

http://www.crower.com/misc/valve_timing_chart.html

http://www.speedomotive.com/Building%20Tips.htm

]

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/94138/

http://www.aera.org/Members/EngineTech/engine.htm

http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/detonation/detonation.html
 
Ill over simplify it for you, as the load rate on the engine increases the rate of accelleration of the piston away from TDC tends to slow as does the rate of increase in the number of strokes per second, cylinder pressures build rapidly from the time the spark ignites the compressed mix untill peak pressures are reached,but not nearly instantly, it takes TIME for usefull pressure to build up, as the pressure in the cylinders before or at TDC does nothing to produce power ,in fact it tends to work against the engines efficiency, but because theres a lag between ignition and the useable pressure over the piston you need to advance the timing, so that the majority of that pressure peaks slightly after TDC and maintains that positive pressure over the piston for as long as possiable, that pressure curve and the necessary required ignition advance required to get it varies with the resistance or LOAD the engines working against and the RATE at which the piston moves away from the TDC point. if that load slows the piston to much it gives the cylinder a chance for secondary ignition(detonation) to occure, as the pressure and time both have an effect. you can get away with a faster advance if the piston moves rapidly away from TDC,IE ligher loads or a higher gear ratio that allows the engine to build rpms faster, factors like, octane used,air temps in the cylinder,quench ,and valve timing, even the rod length/to stroke ratio, effect results here
things to read

http://hcs.harvard.edu/~jus/0303/kuo.pdf

http://superchevy.com/technical/engines_drivetrain/accessories_electronics/0411sc_crane/

http://www.erc.wisc.edu/modeling/multi_dimensional/ModelingMtng2004/7-NSMBpaper.pdf


look here

http://www.iskycams.com/ART/techinfo/ncrank1.pdf

now compare your cam choices and notice that the valves open to bleed off pressure and the valves close to maintain pressure while the piston is a good deal closer to TDC tham most people realize, most of the effective pressure occures in the upper 1/2 of the stroke, with very little useful pressure in the cylinder after 90 degrees past TDC

heres a cam I use alot
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browsePar...lvl=2&prt=5
notice when the exhaust valve opens, and compare that to the location of the piston in relation to the peak cylinder pressures as they relate to the pressure curve over the piston, youll quickly notice that the peak pressure occures between tdc and at most 30 degrees past TDC and has dropped off drastically by the time the exhaust valve opens
 
this may help

http://www.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system.htm

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system1.htm

http://www.familycar.com/Classroom/ignition.htm

http://www.motocross.com/motoprof/moto/secontent/seign/ignprin/ignprin.htm

http://www.northwestautorepair.com/ignitionsystem.htm

http://www.boyleworks.com/ta400/psp/distcurve.html

http://www.chevytalk.com/tech/index.html


heres other options

http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/


http://www.msdignition.com/

http://www.proformparts.com/catalog/distributors_GM.html

http://www.atlanticspeed.com/store/MSD%20Chevrolet%20Distributors.asp

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/IS/ISD/ISD.html

www.performancedistributors.com/gmdui.htm
we got plug info!

http://www.acdelco.com/html/pi_plugs_ident.htm

http://www.atlanticjetsports.com/_techtalk/00000005.htm

http://www.ngkspark.com.au/spark_plug_cross_ref_chart_index3.htm


http://www.strappe.com/plugs.html

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/cm/cm59910.htm
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/partnumberkey.pdf

http://www.eric-gorr.com/techarticles/sparkplugs.html

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/plugs.html


http://www.tsrsoftware.com/sparkplug.htm

http://www.racinghelp.com/read_spark_plugs.html

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/overviewp2.asp


http://www.projectbasketcase.com/menus/ignition.html

http://www.gofastzone.com/techtips/Spark%20Plugs%20Cross%20Reference/Spark%20Plug%20Cross%20Reference.htm

just some info solid core ignition wire and EFI/computer controls don,t always play well together
on my 1985 corvette I use TAYLOR 10.4 MM SPIRAL supression ignition wire
http://www.taylorcableproducts.com/oem7.html

http://www.racenet.net/elec/taylor-thunder-volt.php
I have tried several other types, so far all other types cause intermittant problems with the ECU,or the electronic gauges in the dash from RF, I found this out naturally by tring to find what was causeing those weird glitchs in the way the engine ran sometimes, so just keep in mind that solid core ignition wire and computer controlled efi and ignitions don,t always work well together and the problems caused are not allways easy to spot or constant! BUT I can say that the 10.4 mm ignition wire does help immensely in limmiting the RF

heres optispark info also

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0310htp_optispark/

http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/optisprk/optisprk.htm
http://www.fierolt1.com/lt1_95_up_OptiReplace.htm
http://www.noid.org/~muttvette/opti.html
http://www.gulicks.com/vette/projects/opti/index.html
http://www.houston-f-body.org/tech/optispark/


http://www.dynotech-eng.com/dynaspark.htm
http://www.corvetteclinicinc.com
http://www.corvettefever.com/howto/16758
 
I don't know about retarding the cam 4 deg. at this point. The motor is already installed in the car w/ most accessories in place. But it seems the shop that built my short block that put this combo together should have been aware of an acceptable dynamic compression ratio and possibly retarded the cam already. Since I was unaware of dynamic cpr., and what was acceptable, I never thought to ask.

If by chance the shop didn't retard the cam, are there any alternatives? This is a race only car for autocross and track days and is not used for daily transportation.

Thanks for the info Grumpy
 
"are there any alternatives? This is a race only car for autocross and track days and is not used for daily transportation."

naturally the first step is to determine exactly how the current combo runs and IF your having a problem,now thats not simple to do as it may seem because DETONATION can cause problems and destroy parts at levels BELOW the point where its extremely obvious due to noise levels in the drivers seat.
boosting the fuels octane rating is the fastest OBVIOUS CURE.


http://www.stanford.edu/~bmoses/knock.html

http://www.factorypro.com/tech/fuel_octane_vs_power.html

http://www.vettenet.org/octane.html

http://www.prime-mover.com/Engines/GArticles/octane.html

http://www.diabolicalperformance.com/hotrodoctane.html

http://www.turbofast.com.au/racefuel4.html

octane booster

http://www.sunocoinc.com/site/Consumer/RaceFuels/

http://www.batterystuff.com/fuel-treatments/OS2q.html

http://patriot.net/~jonroq/Tech/octane2.html

http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html


http://www.turbofast.com.au/racefuel8.html

http://www.team.net/sol/tech/octane_b.html
 
Is it possible to determine my static compression ratio based on the piston part number that was installed in the block? (FYI Summit part # H345NCP...@ .30 over...as refering to the piston specs).

What I'm getting at is, just because I asked the engine builder for a specific cpr, did he in fact give me what I asked for, or did he install what he knew was best for my cam application? And knowing what I asked for, did he retard the cam to an appropriate DCR value.

I know, only he can answer these questions. I'm just trying learn as much as I can about this before I approach him with my questions.
 
if you know the head gasket compressed thickness, the piston dome cc and the head cc voluums plus the piston to deck height you can get very close to the exact static compression ratio numbers, but without those youll only get a close guess

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=STL-H345NCP&N=115&autoview=sku

a good guess useing those pistons is about a 7cc valve relief notch voluum
an average deck height would be about .022 and a gasket in the .031 range is comon, heres a compression ratio calc. fill in the rest of your info...you may find your running a lower static cpr than you expected, and that will also significantly drop your DCR results

http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter/calculators/compressionratio.htm
 
grumpyvette said:
a good guess useing those pistons is about a 7cc valve relief notch voluum
an average deck height would be about .022 and a gasket in the .031 range is comon, heres a compression ratio calc. fill in the rest of your info...you may find your running a lower static cpr than you expected, and that will also significantly drop your DCR results

http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter/calculators/compressionratio.htm

Based on those estimated values, I would have a DCR of 9.5 +/-.

So I can assume I will be using high octane gas additive, or short of tearing down the engine, I could swap for a set of 64 cc heads to lower my DCR closer to 8.5
 

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