Dyno Tests?

[BigBrakeFuelie]

I hear about people getting their car`s hp. measured on the dyno.What does this cost? Also what type of shops do Dyno tests.My engine is freshly rebuilt should I wait till it gets broken in more?I only have about 150 miles on it.
Do freshly rebuilt engines run hotter than broken in ones?Due to the tightness and friction.Once the engine loosens up will it build revs quicker?
????

 

[Tim73454]

Big, I have the same questions and have been told to wait until I have about 5000 miles on my new 454 crate moter before I do it.

Mine is also running hot and I was told it would until it was broke in. My original 454 ran about 210 and the new one is running about 250-60. Radiator was tested and nothing else changed but the engine. Both have/had 180 degree thermostats.

No clue on the revs after brake in.


Tim73454

 

[cntrhub]

Once all the parts are warmed and everything is expanded, you can dyno that puppy right now. Why wait 5K miles for a dyno test? The compression will sour in that time span, and the only way of knowing what an engine puts out HP wise, is a fresh engine right off the assembly stand.
Lets look at the NASCAR engine builders. They put the engine on the dyno to break them in before a race. I don't see these 700+HP engines blowing up all over the place on the track once the race starts? I am generally speaking here. NASCAR engine failure in service is extremely low. Usually it's a broken valve spring, Trans, or rear end. Not catastrophic engine failures like F1.
The Japanese factories have durability runs that last for months on end. Meaning, they design a new engine family, put the engine on a dyno and run the snot out of it (full locked redline) for hours/weeks/months on end. Never shutting down the engine. They want to know what part(s) failed when it does go.
Sure, the crank is the one with the close tolerances if set-up for durability. You want an engine to spin faster? Instead of running .002" clearances, or slightly less on the bottom end, run .003"...this will have less friction and spin much quicker. It's the oil between the crank bearings that slow down the crank under tight tolerances. This creates more heat, but I doubt it will blow up (a street engine) running on a dyno for those few seconds to capture the HP spike.

 

[Tim73454]

I'm thinking that the NASCAR motors are built with a little more care than your average crate motor off the line. When I was told to wait I was told it was a pretty intense test not just a quick one rev deal, but that might not be true...
I'm also hoping that the performance of my motor will be pretty close to what it is now in 5000 miles if not I sure spent alot of money for a few thousand miles!!!!

Tim73454

 

[cntrhub]

Right you are Tim. NASCAR engines are, "blue printed." Crate motors are built within a range of specs. Meaning if it's close to being near either side of the, "Service Limit" it's within specs... ("ahhh, close enough." << Mr. Miagi quote from Karate Kid). You have a "production" engine. I'm sure they are giving you your monies worth and making it right, but bottom line, it's still a production (Mr. Miagi) motor.
If that engine you have is tuned for ideal conditions, meaning....no jetting change, no igniton movements = perfectly tuned....one dyno run should do it, to capture the HP rating. Ideally speaking that is.
There are engines out there that are never torn down and raced all season long. I'm sure a street motor will have less wear and tear when it reaches 5k. I wouldn't worry.

 

[Jack]

engine dyno race SOP

For grins & giggles, I help a local shop & a few teams with regional circle track cars & trucks ... we're not WC but are NASCAR sanctioned. Shop has an engine dyno ... & it's used a lot. We take a fresh motor & break it in on the dyno ... if it's a flat tappet motor we break in varying between 1500 & 3K for about 20 minutes ... if temp & pressure & fuel curve & hp numbers are as expected ... we then tach it right on up to race RPM. Only a few are roller cam motors, their break in last only a few minutes ... then if numbers OK we spin it on up. Many of these motors started life as chevy school bus 4-bolt 350 that came with a white steel crank (a team owner has a wrecking yard with state contract to dispose of buses). Many use the original crank & rods & production iron heads ... although lightened & balanced & massaged. They are machined & assembled with great care & attention to detail. If one of these small-valve, flat tappet 355ci motors don't make 370 hp with a 500cfm TWO barrel carb on race gas ... then we're not pleased. BTW, dyno room has NO holes in walls ... & we're usually pleased.

BTW, our regional trucks are NOT the Craftsman trucks you see on TV ... but they're quite similar ... ours kinda compare to Craftsman as ARCA cars compare to WC. Nevertheless, shop does have two full-out NASCAR Craftsman Trucks for sale or rent.

Motors are available for sale as are new in-house supertruck chassis or turnkey supertrucks. Also have rent-a-drive supertruck with minimal crew & expert chief/trainer. Our season's more or less over. Email me if you SERIOUSLY wanna circle track motor or a truck or a drive for next season ... you arrange funding ... I'll be glad to hook you up as favor to you & shop.
JACK:gap

 

[sscam69]

errrr.....Kinda scratching my head with this statement.

What are the restrictions/goals of this kinda racing.

If one of these small-valve, flat tappet 355ci motors don't make 370 hp with a 500cfm TWO barrel carb on race gas

Sounds like fun Jack!!

 

[Jack]

errrr.....Kinda scratching my head with this statement.

What are the restrictions/goals of this kinda racing.

Sounds like fun Jack!!

Frank:
We expect such a motor to make at least 370hp or it ain't competitive ... ours are. Two hp can be the difference between winning & not.

Each regional track has it's own rules ... but they're mostly similar ... but it's in the form of a book (lengthy & complex) ... so you'd need to read it. In some parts of the US, their supertrucks run a sealed spec crate motor ... some even run auto trans. Ours are much more powerful and use richmond or jerico trans and quickchange reargear. Virtually all our regional circle tracks are asphalt & 3/8 - 5/8 mile long.

Quite simply the goal is like in any other racing ... to win. Top performers may be "noticed" & offered opportunity for bigger & better series. Not a whole lotta money to win ... but it takes a good bit to participate ... mostly winning/competing for the love of it. We do have sponsors & their $. It is fun ... but you have to pay to play. Don't get me wrong, while it's fun ... it is serious business. We have a big race at Myrtle Beach Speedway next weekend ... We have a repeat rent-a-drive customer flying in from Oklahoma; I'll help crew for him next weekend ... just this evening I was helping prepare his truck. BTW, I come from an SCCA road-race background ... but right & left tracks are few & far between around here. So I fell into circle track which is so much more accessible here. There's probably circle track action near your home ... be it dirt or asphalt. If you haven't been to a local circle track race, I urge you to go spend $25 ... that'll get you in pits too. You'll be in chevy heaven ... they're so dominant in circle track. Regional circle tracks are where the stars of WC, Busch, ARCA & Craftsman come up from. BTW, the shop is owned & led by a young fellow who's driven WC, Busch & Craftsman ... a real good boy named Ron Barfield ... he's the chassis/setup expert & his daddy is the main motor man ... dad & I are same age. Heck, I'm helping these young fellows who may one day be the next Tony Stewart ... one or two of em are just as talented ... one of em's got even more "spirit" than Stewart (which I think is a good thing).

Anyway, go to a local circle track ... get in the pits & rub shoulders ... that'll enlighten you more than I can explain by writing or even talking. If you see that's something you wanna pursue ... and have the resources ... go for it. If we here in SC can help equip or train you ... email me.
JACK:gap

 

[BigBrakeFuelie]

What type of shop will do a Dyno test? What does it cost?ballpark.I was told a racing engine is built looser ready to roll from the door.As opposed to a street engine that is built tighter.Is this correct?

 

[Tom Bryant]

There is a section in the Portal that lists High Performance Tuners and Dyno Shops. There may be one in your area that you could call for the details of getting your car tested or dyno tuned. Just click on the Portal tab at the top of this page.

Remember, if you find a shop or service that isn't listed in the Portal please submit it. That is how our vast listings of info grows.

Tom

 

[billybob]

We have a shop locally (1 hour away) that does both engine (flywheel and/or wheel) and chassis dyno

cost = Dyno rental including dyno operator only - $100.00 per hour.

The above is a full restoration shop, specializing in High perf cars, they do top fuelies and the likes so have an amazing shop.

While we have another shop (30 mins) away that does just engine (flywheel). They are basically a rice rocket shop.

cost = Dyno rental including dyno operator only - $130.00 per hour.

The above prices are in CAN funds, but once converted into US funds seem to be at par with most shops I have seen listed in the US.

Bill

 

[sscam69]

If you see that's something you wanna pursue ... and have the resources ... go for it

I have a lot of dreams and there are a lot of things I want to do.

I actually want to try roadracing/autoxing (don't really know the difference). I really love straight line performance as well.

I have already talked to my fiance and we are going to go to a driving school. Bondurant now has C5's including ZO6's for thier classes. And its only a few hours away. It would be cool for a weekend getaway. I am sure we would both learn a thing or two about how to REALLY handle a car.

Then I want to give RR/autoxing a try. I think I am really going to enjoy it.

I used to skate (w/ a skateboard) and I was actually pretty good and probably could of have gotten sponsored by someone. The only thing I regret is not getting into competitions. It only makes you that much better!

I've discussed with my fiance about building a drag car to compete in the "Cheap Street" competition class. In fact she wants me to use a Nova!:eek I was like :dance. Win or Lose I can honestly say I gave it a shot!

Those are some of the things I want to try.

 

[JHL]

In it`s original icarnation I took my Vette to the local dyno for a run and it cost me about £25 ($40) to watch a mechanic thrash the living daylights out of it. For that I got four runs and on the last run after wheel spin problems he had another two of his tech guys sitting on the rear deck to try and keep it on the rollers. This did not include any tunning it was what they advertise as a "POWER RUN" only

Not something for the faint hearted to watch your pride and joy receive this sort of treatment. Peak power was determined buy keeping his foot to the floor in fourth gear and waiting for the digital readout on the dyno to level off then go down a little. The noise was incredible and as it is right in town he told me not to bring it back without a proper exhaust.

He also had a big disclaimer notice on the wall basically telling you if it blows up it`s not his problem. I asked if he had blown any engines and got no comment but an odd looking grin on his face.

Have fun

J.

 

[MsSchroder]

I actually want to try roadracing/autoxing (don't really know the difference).

With roadracing, it is multiple-lap competetion with an entire field of cars on the course simultaneously. You are racing with other vehicles (i.e. passing, etc). Generally, victory is awarded to the first one to finish.
Autocross (from what I have seen) tends to be set up in a large area, like a giant parking lot, with cones set up. You are competing against a clock for a single lap at a time; the one with the best time at the end of the day wins. There may be a couple of other cars out on the track at the same time, but you are not racing directly against them, and if you get too close to them then you have to slow down and that race is voided.
From what I understand, with roadracing you have a greater risk of making contact (i.e. damaging your car!).

 

[cntrhub]

Autocross racing is fun and cheap. Have as little fuel in the gas tank as possible. Makes the car lighter and your times quicker. Autocross is like drag racing. It's over in just a few seconds. If you hit a cone, you just rub out the scuff marks with a little wax. You'll spend less time with chassis and engine set-up. The only thing you need is to be, "mentally up and ready" for your run....and it better be good.
Road Racing is a whole new ball of wax. Lets talk about the wax first. Forget the wax! You'll need new clips, door panels, suspension parts, engine, Trans, rear-end spares and a good health insurance policy. If you get tangled up with some novice that keeps looking at his/her rear view mirror instead of looking at the track, they will no doubt collect you when you pass them. Those are the racers that move out of your way knowing you're coming up on them. They plow right into you, thinking you're going to go this way, and they think the opposite and....Boom!....the both of you are out of the race, and to the hospital you go.
What about preparation for a road race? You'll spend hours at night and in the mornings before work, to get the car ready for a race. Road Racing is an all time job. The dedication evolves into an obsession of hours and hours of work and only minutes of racing.
With Autocross, you better be mentally ready for your run. In Road Racing, you screw up a turn, you have another lap to make it up. Both take 100% concentration.
I've known guys who were so obsessed with racing, that they mortgaged their house just to keep racing.
Racing is addictive. Look at A.J Foyt. He retired and then came back out. So did Mario Andretti, and a NASCAR TV commentator who just had to get back out and eventually died.
I've seen many racers die, and wind up in wheel chairs because they just couldn't quit. I am fighting myself not to go back out at my age. It's a great sport, racing. I know what it takes and what it takes away from you.

 

[BigBrakeFuelie]

JHL-Thanks for the warning bro.maybe l`ll take a pass on the dyno if it`s like that.My baby has been through enuff anyway.

 

[Jack]

What type of shop will do a Dyno test? What does it cost?ballpark.I was told a racing engine is built looser ready to roll from the door.As opposed to a street engine that is built tighter.Is this correct?

In this area of SC, either type dynos are few & far between ... a few performance engine build shops have em. Some states (not SC) have required emissions testing ... I "think" chassis dynos may be more common in those states.

Engine dynos require a lot more work to setup for each customer than chassis dyno as motor is is bolted into an engine dyno ... rather than car being rolled onto a chassis dyno. Expect to pay $150 minimum for engine dyno. Dunno about chassis dyno cost ... I understand it is less and many have "dyno days" when cost is minimal.

In general, race motors are assembled with looser tolerances than production or most performance street motors. That is a generalization & does not necessarily apply to all tolerances. In general, motors with closer tolerances tend to run a bit warmer when fresh.
JACK:gap

 

[JHL]

Here`s the ticket from the last two runs. As you can see he just gives it a bit in the first three gears and then nails it in fourth. This is with the old engine and it topped out at just over 200 rwhp but the wheels were still slipping a bit on the rollers.

J.