Dynoed my 2002 Roadster B4 and after mods...

[BoeingMan]

I have put my car on the dyno twice this week. The first time to establish stock base line numbers. The second time to see the results of the mods I installed.

My car is a 2002, 6 speed Roadster, purchased new back in June, with ""factory specs"" of 350 HP/375Lb Ft for this LS1 engine.

My Dyno base line numbers averaged 300.1HP/ 315.4 Lb Ft at the rear wheels.

After installing a Vortex Cold Air Induction, Vortex Power Duct, Granetelli MAF, 175 Thermostat, Throttle Body Coolant Bypass, Corsa Pace Edition Exhaust. My new dyno numbers average 313.7HP and torque of 328.7 Lb Ft at the rear wheels wich brings my new engine rating at the flywheel up to about 364 HP/ 385 Lb Ft

Athough I can defitnatley feel the improvement and performance on my car, and yes this thing hauls ass, I thought I would have squeezed at least twice that many HP's out of these mods.

Very disappointed in these numbers. Again I thought I would have done better.

Does anyone have a similar tale....

Does anyone have similar numbers after same mods installed??
Do I need to have this thing retweeked after installing these mods yes/no?? or is this it for these mods??? :cry

Thanks Bunches

Roll It

 

[69MyWay]

How about pushing nearly 468 cid, 1,000 CFM capacity EFI (multi port), aluminum heads, roller rockers, high lift/duration RPM cam, speed pro forged pistons, and gigantic hooker headers with primary tubes large enough to stuff an entire import car inside.....and....making less rear wheel hp than your dyno numbers. That is my tale to tale with my big block fuel injected 69 Vette. Worse yet, is I copied the dyno proven 539 hp engine specs and dropped EFI on top for good measure.

So....I really don't trust or feel confident in dyno's at the moment.

I realize with the list of mods you have installed, that you have easily sunk a small fortune into your car in hopes of picking up say, 80 hp or so. That has to be a kick in the pants.

It seems like my Mustang budies have the opposite dyno luck. They have worn out 100,000 plus mile 5.0 engines with mild cam, exhaust, computer, and intake manifold work that will put down 400 hp at the rear wheels. At least that is what the dyno numbers say.

All I can suggest is make phone calls to the tech lines at the companies where you bought those parts, re calculate everything, then consider taking it to two other dyno shops with a different brand machine. Or, just go to the 1/4 mile, and run it enough times to start getting a feel for the real potential of the car.

 

[c4c5specialist]

Hi there,
I would ask for your mileage here, please.
I can tell you from personal records, as I have seen 333 straight figures on an 00 Vert, six speed, with BBK 80mm throttle body, Blackwing, and 01 intake manifold, xpipe, and Corsas.
Stock ZO6 was 345, 355 at the wheels, so with that in mind. I would remove the throttle body bypass, and the Granatelli, and attempt to look at your baseline numbers again.
Please keep us posted, c4c5

 

[JBsC5]

Rumor over the years has it that at least 3,000 miles on the motor and that the Stock Maf would be best.

Also

Remember the Cold Air induction you have on your car lowers the intake air temperature approximately 30 degrees..and that for every 10 degrees of lowered air intake temperature that you achieve on the road vs. the dyno should be worth 1% more power..

30 degrees..equals 3% or about 10.5 hp.

Dynos also have a variation factor of at least 2% (some would say 2-4%)

So don't get too concerned off dyno numbers...real world driving or at the track would be of more interest..(imo)

If your still concerned to some degree....I'd recommend stock maf/idle relearn and at least 3000 miles on your motor..

Then have at it..I bet your pleased with the results

Sounds like you have a beautiful car.

 

[BoeingMan]

milage on my car

The car was dynoed last week to get the base line numbers right at 3,050 miles.

Mods were added this week 30 miles later at 3,080miles then dynoed again right at 3170 miles

I used the dyno machine owned by Kenny Brown's shop. Kenny is a well known tuner specializing in mustangs but does do a vette now and then. He is located on the famous "gasoline alley" street off of the Indi 500 race track. His shop always has a half dozen race vehicles sitting inside in various stages of modification. ...I beleive his dyno numbers on my vehicle are correct.

What I'm going to try to do today is go down to the smaller track located a few miles from my home and querry about doing a few 1/4 mile test runs.

I'll try to post the results.

C4C5 you suggested to remove my granetelli and throtlle bypass
and look at my "base line again" . I respect your knowledge, but why do you advise to do this? Help....


I can't drive 55

 

[c4c5specialist]

Hi there,
There has been absolutely NO documented proof that either mod, the bypass, or the mass air flow can produce power gains on an 02. Earlier models, before the removal of the screen, and smaller throttle body, these do help, but for an 02, nothing documented has show gains by these 2 mods.
So, with that in mind, I would continue with this course of action, as the pursuit of power is never an exact science.
Just remember, it may take up to 7000 for the complete break in of your engine, due to synthetic oil.
All the best, c4c5

 

[BoeingMan]

got there too late...

Went to the track last night (Indianapolis Raceway Park) and they were having their "Tuesday Night Street Dreams" competition. This event is open to any street legal vehicle. No prize money, just run your car and see how fast it goes...

It is usually a 1/4 mile event but last night due to the drop in temperature they were trying to keep the speeds down so they were running only 1/8 mile. I arived a little late to run my vette. So I was just a spectator...

Does anyone know what the 1/8 mile time a stock C5 runs???

For C4C5:
Thanks for your previous posts on this thread. Your input is appreciated. I will remove the granetelli in the near future and go back to the stock Maf then recheck my numbers. I agree with you 'bout the throttle body bypass; I figured for $9.00 if I miraculously got 1/4 HP out of the deal it might be worth it, but really didn't expect much out of it....

Do you think the BBk throttle body you refered to previously would help my numbers. I did note the BBK you refered to was installed in a '00 vette but how bout in a '02 like mine? Can you also confirm that the '02 roadster/coup share the same intake manifold as the '02 Z06.

Thanks everyone for your inputs...

feelin the need...
Matt

 

[Edmond]

Matt,

i feel ya man. i'm sure that you put quite an amount of money and time into those mods and to only pick up 13 hp and 13 lbs at the rear wheels has to be a disappointment.

what mods are next...

 

[Dark Dragon]

I just dyno'ed my 2002 Vert this weekend (built end of May-5000miles-only mod is an X-pipe) and I got 300HP and 320ft/lbs, so your numbers are about right. I too am trying to figure out which mod will help the HP. Would a Blackwing provide about the same effect as the Vortex?

Thanks,
DD

 

[Edmond]

Modding a car is really more of a science than many people believe. There are combinations that can actually be detrimental in terms of horsepower.

Looks like the Vortex claim is that their system sucks in cool air from the radiator cavity as opposed to the other systems that just suck air from the hot engine area. I think Zip is running a special on the Vortex so check it out.

 

[vettepilot]

Another item worth noting if you haven't already thought of it, mods are not straight line accumulative. Way too often we read about somebody spending lots of hard earned $$$$ on several bolt-on that are "guaranteed HP producers", and each one in itself probably does produce an increase. However, several items installed does not necessarily produce an added accumulative increase. The other thing worth noting is that the LS series engine is already quite efficient and is producing about as much power as can be extracted from it's street legal form and still get past the EPA requirements. Simple bolt-ons will help, but they have to be the right combination. From reading ther posts of others that have already been this route, I think (for the cost)headers and a free flowing air filter have the greatest impact on the LS series engine, follwed by installation of free flowing exhaust, (only on the LS1, the Z06/LS6 option already has free flowing exhaust). At this point the engine is breathing much more freely, and in order to extract much more, some additional work inside the engine will probably yield better $$:HP results.
BTW, nice car and congrates!
vettepilot

 

[BoeingMan]

Thanks all for your replies...

To 69MYWAY:
Sounds like your engine build has all the right parts installed therefore I would have to ask if you have your engine properly tuned too it's absolutely peak? I would take it to an engine pro ( and I mean a tuning or race prep pro) to absolutely see what can be adjusted to make your engine come to life. Sounds like a fuel/timing or internal seal/leak problem causing your bad numbers. I'm sure you have thought about all this already though good luck.


To JBsC5:
You stated "real world driving or at the track would be of more interest..(imo)" YOur right and that is why I took the trip to the track thanks for your input. You also mentioned "Idle relearn and stock MAF" tahnks again.

To Edmund:
Thanks for sharing in my disappointment it helps :0) ...You ask waht mods are next. Well as far as bolt ons, if C4C5 Specialist or someone else that has first hand information on a 80mm throttle body in "2002" Vette and has seen positive results then I just may install one myself.

You know if it weren't for voiding my warranty I wouldn't think twice of installing a supercharger in it along with beefing up the top end. However as I said B4 warranty issues are a concern for me.

As an alternative I was thinking 'bout installing parts out of the GM performance catalog. I called the dealer service department and spoke with the manager and asked if these parts would void any part of my warranty. His reply was not if they do the install and the parts have to be GM certtified. I asked if I could have the ZO-6 heads and cam installed and he said that would work. So now I'm thinking 'bout this very hard. Anyway these are things I'm thinking about for the moment....

To DarkDragon:
About the comparrison between the Vortex and the Blackwing...I think C4C5 Specialist may have some input about that one aslo. Are you happy with your Xpipe?? What difference/improvemnet did it make on youVette ??

To VettePilot:
Thanks for your input also. Lots of stuff in your post I agree with.

Two Mods I absolutely recomend to all. The first is the Hurst Billet Plus Short Throw Shifter. Made a world of differance for me. I used to search for gears up and down it's shift range. Now I never miss a gear. No I'm not exagirating. Second to third gear used to be a 70/30 event (70% I would hit it, 30% I would miss or have to search for it) same goes for the rest of the gears. Great mod.

The Second Mod worth installing is the CAGS elliminator. No longer does the computer disallow me the shift of my choice (second or third from first gear in slow speed drving). I now shift where and when I want. But because the shift light isn't disabled I can still receive visual cues form the computer and shift to fourth from first when the computer tells me to...

Thanks again to all

Last one is a rotten egg...

 

[DRTH VTR]

1/8th mile time

Boeingman asked "Does anyone know what the 1/8 mile time a stock C5 runs???"
I have a stock '97 A4 that runs 9.2-9.3 in the 1/8th mile at 2600 ft elevation and 90 degrees F. That is an intermediate time on my 1/4 mile timeslip.
Jim B

 

[vettepilot]

Darth...
I just read somebody's post on another site someplace yesterday... darn I can't remember what site right now, anyway, they were talking 9.3 - 9.6 as the average C5 unmodded 1/8th times, and the speeds were ranging from 91 - 95 MPH. But they didn't say if those were 6spds, A4s or both. If I happen to run across that info again, I'll try to post a link on here.

vettepilot

 

[DRTH VTR]

1/8th mile times

vpilot-
I will type in the exact times that I have on the one timeslip that I have in front of me. This is still for a stock '97 A4 with 70,000 miles on it. It was a warm day and the strip is at 2600'.

60' 2.235 (slow!! tall gears)
330' 6.213
1/8 9.356
MPH 78.81
1000 12.014
1/4 14.229
MPH 102.15

I did not get a very good start on this run. My RPM was a little lower than I wanted at launch.
Whee!
Jim B

 

[vettepilot]

DRTH VTR,
Those look like pretty good times.... the speeds are off quite a bit, but I could have had a brain fart either while I was reading the speeds... or while trying to remember what I read while typing my post to this thread. Either way.... nice job!
vettepilot

 

[c4c5specialist]

HI there, Boeing,
First, yes, the LS6 and the LS1 share the same intake manifold.
Second, your most restrictive thing here is the converters, and can be changed, depending on what you would like to spend.
FLP makes a good header system, with converters.
I like it, because it installs well, and does NOT harm your emissions.
Primary issues with o2 bung locations and air injection tube mounting bolt holes have been resolved, and work very well.
If you want to open your car up, I would start here, as the power upgrade you will feel and see in the dyno charts.
Blackwing is a very good air filter, without cutting anything.
Very easy installation.
Please keep us posted, c4c5

 

[les]

My 99 started out at about 286hp and 289 t. I've been tring to bring it up to 01 spec's. I'm at 305hp and310t now. I'm going back to the dyno on the 23rd. If I can dial in the maf transator to the cooler weather I'm hoping for some improvement.

 

[Evolution1980]

Save your money and forget the bolt ons. Once you have about 8K saved up, drop your car off at Lingenfelter for his Supercharger package. You even get a new painted hood to match! He guarantees his numbers AND warranties his work!

http://www.lingenfelter.com/pac350magscc5.asp

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Cara...2/april/200204_specialtyfile_lingenfelter.xml

...or not.... :L Regardless...have fun!
How fast do you want to go? How much money do you have???

Oh yeah, regarding what 69MyWay said...I know about his dyno numbers. They're a bad joke. Dyno numbers are somehat useless. Even if you have crazy high numbers, if you can't apply them to the street, it's simply bragging rights with no real world functionality. Case & point: Mustang at my local drag strip claiming 475hp. And probably has it too! Too bad he's pulling 14's in the 1/4 mile. He can't hook up. I'm at 355hp at the crank and pulling 13.4's in the 1/4. Horsepower is only as relative as you want to make it. Take it to the track and let that be your measuring stick. Dynos are can be too far varied, even in a "controlled environment".

 

[BoeingMan]

Thanks everyone for advice....

evolution1980...thanks for you input...

I agree, I would love to take the vehicle to Mr L. and have him bolt on a supercharger for me. Hec, I would do it myself even, however, my big concern is voiding my factory warranty.

So this is why I am tinkering with all the bolt on stuff that will not void my warranty (in a big way anyway). I figure if I could gain about 40-50 horses to hold me over till the warranty expires... The install of a supercahrger would then be a no brainer...done deal.

I am sort of disappointed in GM for not making available the Z06 in a roadster style. As soon as this option is available my present roadster gets traded in...done deal.


Speed is cool