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Engine Knock on 2001

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Black Ice

Guest
Hib I like the way GM says there is no duribility problem with the "ring thing". What a crock of Sh-t. What they did not mention is all that oil passing through there flapping rings are going to wreck the sensors the cat's, plugs and other components down the line. is GM going to cover these things for oil fowling after the warranty is up?? I see a class action lawsuit here somewhere....
 

c4c5specialist

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Nope, but someday.
Facts on operating of consuming cars

While I can understand to an extent, Black Ice, and the fears that you have voiced, I cannot concur.
PCM diagnostic function checks for slow, or non response of o2 sensors, for which there are numerous codes.
Also, non functioning of catalytic converters, which will also be tested on the next appropriate drive cycle, and set a few more codes. If any sensor, or converter degrades, due to carbon contamination, would it not show up before the end of the oil consumption test?? Of course it would. These codes for these failures are classified as a type 'A', which per EPA guidelines, MUST turn on the SES light, on the first failure. Thereby, storing a failure record in the PCM.
Your converters are covered by a 8 yr, or 80000 miles warranty. Once your converter lights off, at about 450-600 degrees, all excess carbon is burned off, as a result of the increased oil consumption. If it was to coat the converters, your p0420 or p0430 would set for converter efficiency. As long as you have not modified the converter assembly, or added cam, heads, or nitrous, you will not have an issue.
YOu will find that most, if not all of the ring replacements, have occured under 20k. After we do a ring replacement, we MUST DO A FULL DIAGNOSTIC DRIVE, in order to confirm that there are no further issues, and that the vehicle is repaired correctly the first time.
From the facts above, there will a few cases, where the service may be lacking, however, for the 99% of repairs, you will not have any issues further.
These are my reasons for feeling that the idea of any kind of lawsuit, unless because of poor service, would not be proper in this instance.
Best toyou, c4c5
 
B

Black Ice

Guest
Well just the FACT that GM changed the ring design tells me there was something wrong with the 2001 design. I can not believe that oil blowing by the rings would not cause some long term damage to components and sensers down the line. The original design intent was not for the motor to ingest a quart of oil in 800 miles. I think GMs arrogence to this matter is reason enough for a class action suit. I don't know of any other 2001 auto in the 50K+ price range that burns a quart of oil in 800 miles. DO YOU???
 

c4c5specialist

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Nope, but someday.
BMW Z3, Porshe 911 turbo,

Hi there,
The first Z3 carried engine problems and all were recalled, and engines installed.
911 had breakin issues, and pistons/ring packages were installed.
As for arrogance, I dont think so, as when the first documented cases were found, engineers were quickly on the scene, attempting to determine the correct course of action. I know, I was right in the middle of it.
All redesigned parts must go through EPA validation BEFORE THE FIX IS ISSUED. They cannot issue a correct repair before such time as the repair has been verified. They must follow legalities, as must we all in the repair field.
These are simply facts, and I ask that they be taken as such, c4c5
 
B

Black Ice

Guest
THIS HAPPENED IN THE C5s FIFTH MODEL YEAR!!!! Why?? and now the owners get stuck holding the bag!! Most Chevrolet Dealers can't manage to make small repairs correctly let alone an engine tear down. I went through this with my 2000 blazer. This kind of engine problem should not surface in a platforms 5th year. PERIOD!
 
B

Black Ice

Guest
At least BMW admitted a problem and replaced engines. GM chooses to blame the consumer for driving a sports car to aggressively, and says using a quart of oil in 1000 miles is normal. HOGWASH. I have owned SEVEN C5s including the 01 oil burner. NONE of my other C5s used oil not even my very early 1997 vin 1100. My 2001 LS1 based Tahoe has 3000 miles on the last oil change it has used LESS then 1/4 of a quart of oil. GM needs to RECALL all 2001s for a re ring. I am working on this with my lawyer, Look for my class action law suit soon.
 

Rob

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1990 Corvette ZR-1
Well....now I have to ask. You've owned 7 C5s......were they all "oil burners"? If you had similar problems with all the C5s you owned, why did you continue buying a car from that platform each time? I'm just kind of curious because personally speaking, if I purchase the same product 2 or 3 times, and all 2 or 3 times, the product fails, I wouldn't buy that product a 4th, 5th, or 6th time after that.
 
B

Black Ice

Guest
I have owned 1 1997 2 1998 1 1999 1 2000 2 2001s. Only my 2001s burn oil. none of the other cars including 13 C4s ever burned oil.
 

c4c5specialist

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Nope, but someday.
GM engineers were trying to save gas mileage, and give us better performance, that is why the lower tension in the second compression rings. They try to give us better mileage, and your upset??
And it is not onlythe fifth year, the bulletin applies to cars back to 99. The major issue is that engines consistantly run over 3200rpm, will start to cavitate, and therefore, use oil. GM builds alot more vehicles than BMW or Porshe. The situation really presented itself with LS6, due to the higher peak torque, and horsepower curves.
And if GM didnt want to fix the issue, there would not be a bulletin for Camaro, Firebird, and Corvette. Your Tahoe is LS1 based, however, not the same. Camshafts, compression, calibration, and torque peak, gearing, and final drive are totally different, so you do not have to rev to 3200 consistantly to gain powerful acceleration
I would suggest that you sell your Corvette, and buy something else, as I feel you are being unrealistic. Everyone makes mistakes, even multibillion dollar corporations, and I dont know what you were fed at the place where you bought your car, but noone was blamed on this, but the rings, plain and simple. Your case is obviously different, because you were blamed, not the car. That was wrong, and I concede that.
However, give it some thought, as this is not something that I agree with. Due to the facts that I have listed. c4c5
 
B

Black Ice

Guest
I buy a $52,000,00 car it burns 1 quart of oil in 800 miles and Im unrealistic?? YES!!! Multibillion dollar Cos. DO make mistakes my point exactly. That's why I want all 2001 C5s to be recalled to REPLACE the rings or at the owners option take a 100.000.00 mile warranty on the engine and its components. GM will not admit there is an oil consumption problem. GM is openly blaming the consumer for there driving habits causing this problem. I want a court to examine the facts. I have employed an "Expert" to monitor oil usage on several (8) 2001s over a long period of time for court documents. What I can tell you so far over this 4 month period it isn't looking good for GM. Look for a class action suit headed for the courts in about 6 months. Oh yea better start getting ready to do a LOT of LS1 ring jobs :)
 

c4c5specialist

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Nope, but someday.
Sir,
If this is the case, that GM is directly blaming the customer for this issue, I will be interested to see exactly what documentation comes out of this suit, as to the GM document, which states this.
Because I, for one, have never seen any documentation that GM denied this and blamed it on anyone. And I have not heard one GM representative state anything about customers causing this issue.
Even the service bulletin, which has been release, says nothing about customer fault for this condition. It states that engines routinely run over 3200 rpm for extented drive times, nothing else. If GM didnt admit oil consumptions issues, why is there a published technical service bulletin??
And how did this go from piston movement issues, to ring overhauls???
c4c5
 
B

Black Ice

Guest
Please see Hib Halverson's informative article in the C5 registry. You can go to the link in this thread Hib listed it I think on page 2.
 

c4c5specialist

Technical Advisor
Joined
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Messages
3,682
Location
New Haven, Ct. USA
Corvette
Nope, but someday.
Sir,
In the remarks made by John Juriga, he states that this issue is caused by light load higher rpm usage, like not taking the car out of 2nd gear in city driving. He states that imbalance within the cylinders creates the condition, due to oscillation of the piston rings, under these type of driving conditions.
It is also stated that it mostly is due to driving styles, not that the customers are responsible for the problem, which aggravate the condition, to 600-800 miles to a quart. On those cars with this type of consumption, we were told to contact technical assistance. Now, we are instructed to install rings per GM TSB,01-06-01-023.
There was never a statement made that the customers are the reason this is occuring, nor that GM does not acknowledge the condition. On the contrary, they were working on this condition back in Jan and before. BUT, they had to be absolutely certain that the fix was correct, and that the consumption would be back up to the 1 quart in 2000 miles, which the rings do exactly that.
Not only based on the information on the internet, and within the GM, but on my personal experience.
With 15 ring jobs under my belt, all 15 cars have exceeeded 1 quart in 2000 miles, and every one is happy. This fix is it, and I stand behind the results, here, and across the Corvette community.
Best to you, c4c5
 
B

Black Ice

Guest
Isn't saying the customers "driving style", blaming it "Partly" on the owner? It really sounds like it to me. I still think its GMs duty to make ALL 2001s right. All 2001s then have the potential to burn oil with different owners/drivers. I will continue ahead to get all 2001s recalled for this problem, via a class action suit. We are also testing several cars to see if they meet EPA standards while drinking oil. I will leave you my E mail address Firstaid4film@aol.com. Thank you for your opnions and insights. Ross
 
B

Black Ice

Guest
Now there is a thread in the Corvette Forum about the knocking noise on 2002s!!!!!!!!!!! I thought GM fixed this... Yea Right.
 
C

corvette0901

Guest
Ring Replacement

After reading all the messages regarding the oil consumption and the ring replacements, can anyone tell me if they have actually been through this and what are the risks if I do this or don't do this. My dealership out here concerns me a bit and the thought of them performing what I call heart surgery on my first corvette leaves me very uncomfortable. Heavy Sigh
 

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