Extreme hard starting problem

[69MyWay]

Okay guys, you are batting 1,000 so far with all your help on bringing my 85 back to life.

Here is the next problem.

Granted there is still a bit of 2 year old gas left in the tank messing up the mix...but...the car just won't start!

What I mean is, I spin it over, and over, and over, and over, and after a while of turning it on, then off, then on, and spinning it over, it will start to combust. If I hold the starter engaged, the motor will eventually pick up and fire and run on its own.

As soon as it starts....I am home free.

It will restart within a few minutes of the original running time. However, if you wait more than five minutes, it won't start.

I have to squirt a tiny amount of starting fluid into the intake (I just shoot it in the power brake hard line), and it will fire immediately, and run fine..no problem.

So......What gives?

If you suggest fuel pump...where the heck is my fuel pump relay? I am still waiting on the manual from the prior owner. I should get that this weekend.

I am getting a code 36 (MAF relay burn off problem).

I am getting that after it is warmed up and I nail the throttle.

 

[rrubel]

This sounds like what happened when my fuel pump relay had a bad connection last year. The relay is on the firewall between the brake booster and the brake fluid reservoir. On my car, it's the relay that's not the closest to the firewall of the pair (believe the other is the overdrive).
[RICHR]

 

[c4ever]

Got to agree with the others. I had the same issue right before the fuel pump let go. It's a quick change out, especially for you:L
By the way, is the 85 making it to Kissimmee?

Carlo

 

[Mart]

Check the relay wires

My 86 had some bare wires leading into the fuel pump relay (the insulation must shrink back after 17 years), and they were shorting out making me think it was the fuel pump, even the codes led me to believe it.

I'm not sure if the fuel pump relay is in the same place on the 85. but after this problem I checked other wires leading some other relays and found one other that was causing a problem.

Check them wires.

 

[c4c5specialist]

Hi there,
I would suggest a few other things here.
First, your MAF burn off system is actually tied into the MAF power relay system.
These have been known for problems with the contacts within the relays themselves.
Second, the fuel pump sender assembly itself.
If you remove the unit from the tank, its not really hard, you will find the wiring comes in through the steel plate, and there is a plug at the underside. Sometimes, under heat, stress and other things, this connector will melt, or create other problems, like NO FUEL PRESSURE.
Give the unit a look see, and let us know what you have..
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[69MyWay]

Sounds like a plan.

1. Remove and inspect the pump assembly, checking the rubber hose connections between the pump and the steel lines.

2. Remove the relays (MAF and FP), and make sure the connections are clean...if not just replace them.

---try a cold start----

Sound about right?

I had a GM car once that when I replaced the pump, the fat little rubber hose between the pump and hard lines was split. For the life of me, I can't remember what car that was on...and if it was having a running problem.

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rrubel]

Mart, that's the identical problem I had... bare wires on the relay socket touching and keeping the pump from working. I just thought that someone had replaced the socket and done a bad job.
[RICHR]

 

[69MyWay]

By the way, is the 85 making it to Kissimmee?

Carlo

GREAT question!

I am humping it this weekend and next to get the six speed swap done in the 69. "IF" I run into a snag, I will roll down in the 85. However, I have to steal time away from myself to wrap up these details on the 85. I did not realize until yesterday that OctoberVette is on the 11th!!!!!!! I thought it would be closer to the end of the month...YIKES...not much time!

It is really weird. As soon as it starts...it runs, accelerates, etc. just fine. It is the intial firing up that is no good.

I have some great info here to work with. When I hit a spot on the 69 that I am waiting on something to dry, etc, I will pull the fuel pump out and have a look.

 

[69MyWay]

It started without starting fluid!!!!!!!

Testing--etc,

I put a gauge on it.

When you turn the key on it slowly climbs up to about 35 or so psi. When cranking it holds steady, or increases.

When you turn it off, it bleeds back to zero pretty fast (testing at the rail).

I pulled the pump. There is a strange plastic baffle thing between the pump and metal lines. The bright orange rubber seals on each side of it looked pretty bad. I can't figure out what it does, as you can see straight through..no valve...so I guess it is some kind of a baffle.

Anyway, I bypassed it with a fat piece of MPI hose and clamped it all in tight. I also cleaned and pressed tight all the electrical contacts at the pump area.

Back in the car, I spun it over and it started right away. I adjusted the timing up a bit.

I tried 20 minutes later, and it was hard to start, but after three tries it lit up and started running....

So...??? Bad fuel still? I am down to a few gallons in the tank. Time to go back to the gas station.

Oh...when running, the adjustable fuel pressure regulator is running over 50 psi. I need to turn that down a tad, no need for that at this time to be that high.

 

[P-ColaVette]

Stealing time from yourself......

Hi Chris !

Man, you just crack me up I just wanted to say that it was good to finaly meet you, and thank's for slowing down and extending such good hospitality ! I really hope you don't find some new mod to do to killer right before MC IV, because we all would really like for you and Nicky to join those of us in the SE Region for our next little gathering !



Steve.