First oil change

[lov-n-life]

After about 2 weeks, I now have a little over 1500 miles on my new '04. I spent the first 500 miles babying everything, the drive train, brakes, suspension, etc. Around 800 miles I started "pushing" the car a bit, flexing it's muscles by bringing RPM to about 2000 before shifting during normal driving, and about 4000 when accelerating onto the highways. Also in there were a couple WOT bursts to redline to keep any carbon build-ups from happening, and pushing the car in the corners to feel out the suspension, EMT tires, and to start learning how much the car talks back to me near the limits. So far, it is not telling me how wide the line is at the limits.
Anyway, my point being, now that I'm beyond the break in period, the oil life indicator still says 86% life remaining, the dealership put a 3000 mile oil change sticker on the windshield (but I know Mobil 1 is good for at least twice that), and so I'm curious as to when to actually perform the first oil change in a LS1. Should I wait for 3k? Normal oil change cycle? Let the computer tell me when? Any thoughts on this? Hib and C4C5, what are your professional thoughts? Thanks!
Oh, and while the discussion is going, how much feed back does the car communicate at the limits. My C4 wouldn't really let you know you were at the limits of adhesion until it let loose, and then you just became a passenger. I'm still getting accustomed to the EMT tires, but so far the grip still exceeds my personal pushing limits vs familiarity with the car. Thanks for the input!

 

[Edmond]

The first oil change should come before 3000 miles. You'll want to change it sooner because during the break in period, there are things in there that won't be in there after the first oil change. Metallic shavings and things like that.

If you're doing it yourself, Wal Mart sells the Mobil 1 synthetic in 5 quart containers for $20.00 and make sure to use a good oil filter. K&N makes a pretty good oil filter. The great thing about K&N is that it has a 1" hex nut on the bottom so you won't need a filter wrench. Mobil 1 makes a good filter as well. Those filters are on the pricier side at $10-11 but it's worth it.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Here's my "spin" on first oil changes. This is the procedure I've observed for any new vehicle or new engine I've put in service in the last decade or so.

0 miles (for new/overhauled engine) fill crankcase with Red Line 10W30
500 miles. Change oil filter
1000 miles (for new car) change factory fill, 5W30 oil to Mobil 1 or Red Line 10W30 and change filter. After that, adopt normal drain and filter change intervals.
1000 miles (for new engine) change filter again and adopt normal drain and filter change intervals.

With new engines, I drive 'em easy for 500 miles, but after that, anything is ok. With new engines in C5s and C6es, you'll find (if you've run the car on a chassis dyno) that although you can run them hard after 500 miles, the engine will need to get to about 2000 miles before it "loosens-up" fully.

 

[vettepilot]

Hey Mike,
You will get hundreds of answers on this, and all will be different. I changed mine the first time at about 3000 miles, which was a little later than I had wanted, but that's the way it worked out at the time. Now I just go with the DIC oil life monitor. I wait till it gets down to about 25%. The oil life monitor does exactly what the name implies, it monitors the oil life through temperature, RPM, duration at temps and RPM etc. Therefore, when the temps and /or RPM are high and for long durations, it [the oil life remaining] counts down faster. The oil life monitor was programed with the synthetic oil properties in mind.
The Mobil 1 and other synthetic oils are better at maintaining their properties at higher temps, but they do get dirty, which is exactly one of the functions of what the oil is supposed to be doing, holding the waste products in suspension, and helping to neutralize the acids etc. that are the result of burned and unburned hydrocarbons.
An interesting conversation came up at our Panama City Beach Cruise two years ago concerning the testing of the LS series engines. The test engine(s) went over 100,000 miles on the same oil and filter, then were torn down to be measured for wear. There was no appreciable wear. The engineer telling us this didn't advocate letting the oil go that long, he was just relaying the results of their tests.
You might hear some say that you need to get the "break-in oil" out of there, there is no such animal as break-in oil in today's engines.
You may hear also some talk about using conventional oil for break-in, then switch over to synthetic after the "break-in" period. Again, the synthetic oil is in there for a reason, since the introduction of the LT1 engine in 1992, there have been no engine oil coolers installed in Corvettes from the factory. Therefore, that synthetic oil is there to operate in the higher temperature environment of the late model Corvette engines.

I think the mileages that Hib Halverson stated are a good rule of thumb if you can catch the mileage in time. Since you are just beyond that point then you should probably consider the first oil/filter change.

vettepilot

 

[lov-n-life]

The first oil change should come before 3000 miles. You'll want to change it sooner because during the break in period, there are things in there that won't be in there after the first oil change. Metallic shavings and things like that.

If you're doing it yourself, Wal Mart sells the Mobil 1 synthetic in 5 quart containers for $20.00 and make sure to use a good oil filter. K&N makes a pretty good oil filter. The great thing about K&N is that it has a 1" hex nut on the bottom so you won't need a filter wrench. Mobil 1 makes a good filter as well. Those filters are on the pricier side at $10-11 but it's worth it.

The shavings and such are exactly why I asked this question. I've rebuilt an engine before (Supra in-line 6) and so that is my only experience with "new" engines. Right now, I don't really have a convienent place to do my own oil changes, and I have two service recalls that need to be performed. I figured I would just drop the car off one morning and let them take care of the service and first oil change all in one shot.

Thanks for the inputs... and vettepilot (ie dad ), I don't think any car built during my generation has ever had a "break-in" oil Well, at least not since I was old enough to understand machines.

 

[lov-n-life]

Here's my "spin" on first oil changes. This is the procedure I've observed for any new vehicle or new engine I've put in service in the last decade or so.

0 miles (for new/overhauled engine) fill crankcase with Red Line 10W30
500 miles. Change oil filter
1000 miles (for new car) change factory fill, 5W30 oil to Mobil 1 or Red Line 10W30 and change filter. After that, adopt normal drain and filter change intervals.
1000 miles (for new engine) change filter again and adopt normal drain and filter change intervals.

With new engines, I drive 'em easy for 500 miles, but after that, anything is ok. With new engines in C5s and C6es, you'll find (if you've run the car on a chassis dyno) that although you can run them hard after 500 miles, the engine will need to get to about 2000 miles before it "loosens-up" fully.

Thanks Hib! So I imagine when I take it in for service to the dealership and have the oil changed, there should be no problem if I tell them I want 10w30 instead of 5? Although, if GM did this for emissions/fuel economy, then I think I may just stay with the 5W30 as I am all about saving at the gas pumps! It is going to be a while before I even consider tracking this car...too many battle scars on my Boxster from autocrossing, and all I tagged was a couple of cones... ONCE!ad Hehehe, got a little hot (if you consider 60mph+ in a 4 wheel drift confined in a 300X500ft parking lot hot ) on a long sweeping corner with an off camber roll right smack in the middle of the turn...went just a *smidge* wide and launched a 12" cone into orbit. It was a good day.

 

[mbwalker]

Funny timing. I just talked to the Mobil1 guys at Effingham yesterday (9/19). They said the engines are made with such tight tolerances today, that a break in period is no longer needed. Just change it at the normal interval.

 

[lov-n-life]

seems odd...

Funny timing. I just talked to the Mobil1 guys at Effingham yesterday (9/19). They said the engines are made with such tight tolerances today, that a break in period is no longer needed. Just change it at the normal interval.

From the oil's standpoint, I can understand what they are saying about no break in period because there is no "break-in oil", but it is exactly those tight tolerences that cause/allow shavings to be in the oil after breaking an engine in. The piston rings have to seat to the cylinder walls for instance. This statement reminds me of when I was playing with Toyota Supras and someone in the group said "...the 5MG/7MG motors were bullet proof and required no breaking in periods, except for the piston rings and if it weren't for that, you could run the engines to redline for 2 minutes straight right after building them with no ill effects." Well on the surface, this sounds like a pretty impressive statement until you think about it. The rings are the reason for a break-in period in modern engines. So the statement is inherently true, but also misleading to say the engine is better than another builder based off of this statement.
Oh, and for the record, the Supra's engines were pretty impressive builds. Same block was used from the early 1960's in the Toyota 2000 all the way through 1993. This block was used for the Pre-5MGE (196?-1982),5MGE (1982-1985), 7MGE (1986-1993 1/2 NA cars), and 7MGTE (1988-1993 1/2 Turbo cars). Not as long of a run as the venerable small block 350, but then again the 350 has had alot of changes through the years where the M block from Toyota stayed pretty much the same for the entire run. Just a little "off brand" history for those that like useless information!

 

[mbwalker]

Despite what I said in my previous post, I still changed the oil in our 04 after a 1000 miles, then every 4K afterwards. Did the same think in my S10 too. Better safe than sorry. Anyway, the Mobil guys also handed out a real nice pamphlet and one area talked about myths surrounding fully syn oil. Really interesting reading. They had a block cut apart that had 200K miles on it. It was spotless.

 

[fdxpilot]

My salesman, who is a approved vendor on another forum, and only sells vettes said bring it in at 1K for the first change, then follow the DIC. I change it myself at 30% Oil Life remaining.

 

[Gary7m]

My salesman, who is a approved vendor on another forum, and only sells vettes said bring it in at 1K for the first change, then follow the DIC. I change it myself at 30% Oil Life remaining.

On my '00 FRC, if I followed the DIC, I'd be changing oil three times a year at anywhere from 2500 to 3500 miles. I'm not hard on my car at all. I rarely drive it in stop and go traffic, or on short trips to the video store, yet I've watched the oil life gauge go down 3% in five miles after an oil change. Maybe I'm dense, but I can't imagine that Mobil 1 or Redline can't handle 12 months/10,000 miles of reasonable LS1 use. A local parts distributor who used to carry Amalie oil back in the day would give free oil testing vials. I never had one come back saying the oil was worn out or there was too much junk in it. And I was using dino oil @7500 mile intervals.

I think that most of the time frequent (3 mo/3k miles) oil changes are the modern equivalent of throwing salt over your left shoulder: it makes us feel good, but I don't think it significantly improves longevity over a 6 mo/6k mile or 6 mo/7.5k mi interval. At (say) $36 per change (DIY) 99,000 miles of 3k changes = $1188. 15k changes=$237.60. I'm not sure there's going to be a thousand dollars less wear on the motor with 33 oil changes.

Now, just so you know, I'm as guilty as the next person when it comes to too frequent changes. I just DIYed a 30,000 mile maintenance and the only liquid I didn't change was the windshield washer fluid. I replaced the serpentine and the old one was fine. Go figure. In my case, it's superstition or pride...

Regards,
Garibaldi

 

[Edmond]

Maybe I'm dense, but I can't imagine that Mobil 1 or Redline can't handle 12 months/10,000 miles of reasonable LS1 use.

The synthetic oil can hold up, it's just the oil filter that will get clogged up with enough crud to not be able to filter anymore.

There are quite a number of cars out there that state their oil change periods. My Camry says to change it at 3,750 miles under "normal conditions." I have no idea what normal conditions means. :L

I think it's a cheap and safe way to protect your engine life. Think about it, you spend $40,000 on a car but don't want to spend $30 on an oil change 3-4 times a year?

 

[Gary7m]

The synthetic oil can hold up, it's just the oil filter that will get clogged up with enough crud to not be able to filter anymore.

<<SNIP>>
I'd be inclined to change a filter ever 5k and oil every 15k and my guess is (no data of course) that the oil would still be fine. Terry Haines who was the prototype engineer on the Contour SVT project categorically tells his customers to change filters every six months and top up the oil.

I think it's a cheap and safe way to protect your engine life. Think about it, you spend $40,000 on a car but don't want to spend $30 on an oil change 3-4 times a year?

Not to be rude, because I don't mean it that way, but I'm willing to spend any money I need to to keep my cars running well; I'm also willing to not spend one nickel more than I need to. Although when it comes to oil (because I only drive my FRC 5k miles a year) I change my oil& filter when I park the car up for winter.

 

[Cessna 182]

Tight toleraces?

What tolernces are tighter - and before what? Just coursious.

 

[mbwalker]

What tolernces are tighter - and before what? Just coursious.

Wow, this is an old post! While not trying to be a salesman for Mobil 1, I did find this on their web site. I do have a flyer the Mobil 1 guys gave me at Effingham that discusses it in a little more detail. If your interested. I can scan it and e-mail it to you


Q: I know that you say that Mobil 1 should not be introduced into a new vehicle until after the manufacturer's recommended break-in period. I also note your comments concerning coking with regular motor oil in turbos. I'll be picking up a new PT Cruiser GT Turbo in a few days. Would it be acceptable to switch to Mobil 1 at about 1,000 miles or even less? Because of turbo coking and the fact that my previous PT Cruiser seemed to just run smoother and better when I switched to Mobil 1, can I switch right away?
-- Richard Frith, High Point, NC

A:Thank you for taking the time to write to us regarding Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ in your brand new PT Cruiser. You can start using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ in new vehicles at any time, even in a brand-new vehicle. In fact, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:

• Chevrolet Corvette
• All Porsche vehicles
• Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
• Dodge Viper
• Ford Mustang Cobra R
• All Aston Martin cars

One of the myths that persists about Mobil 1 is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. Current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design these "factory-fill" high-performance cars, Mobil 1 can be used in an engine from the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.

Q:Can I use Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ as the break-in oil for a rebuilt engine?

Yes, but the timing of your first oil change will depend largely on the quality of the rebuild. Due to tighter tolerances and improved machining of today's engines, the traditional concept of "engine break-in" is not as critical. However, if the engine rebuilder is using older machining equipment or lower-quality components, abrasive material can be left inside the engine. In this case, you should use a short drain interval on your initial oil fill.

 

[vetteboy86]

Ok guys, on a side note. You are going to save the oil filter aren't you, and put it up somewhere for safe keeping.:L I think I would if I had the chance.


Craig

 

['04 Torch Red]

First change=2600mi.......then every 3,000mi or 6 months...I change it myself , its really easy and cheap...get the Mobil 1 for $2 a quart(with my coupon) and the GM filter for $4...so it costs me $17 to do a change

 

[Mr. Lucky]

If you really want a cost-effective DIY oil change solution, go to Pep Boys and buy their 2005 COOLCARS calendar (proceeds benefit MADD) for a buck. There are two pages of coupons in the middle (good through the end of the year). One of them if for Mobile-1 - buy 3 get 3 free. Can't beat that!

 

['04 Torch Red]

If you really want a cost-effective DIY oil change solution, go to Pep Boys and buy their 2005 COOLCARS calendar (proceeds benefit MADD) for a buck. There are two pages of coupons in the middle (good through the end of the year). One of them if for Mobile-1 - buy 3 get 3 free. Can't beat that!

Thats what I did for the oil...see above post...(about coupons):L