Help! Front end rebuild done. . .now goofy steering!!!

[Bolisk]

So, I will try to keep this short. Two months ago, I installed a new professionaly rebuilt tilt / tele steering colum, a new rag joint, a new rebuilt steering box, new tie rods (with ends) and I rebuit the drag link joint that the pitman arm connects too. I then went and had the car fully aligned. After, the car drove and handled excelently The steering with 1,000 times better than before.

So, that lead me to the next project. I just spent the last week rebuilding / restoring my entire front end (everything else): Ball joints, springs, busihings, control arms, spindles, wheel berings, shocks, Idler arm. . .etc.

After getting the car re-assembled, and triple checking the torq settings on everything. . .I lowered the car and took it out for a drive.

Everything feels nice and tight. . .and the bumbs felt a ton better. The car even seems to track straight.

HOWEVER, and here is the weird part. . .

When the road bends slightly to the left or righ, you naturally would turn the wheel to go arround the bend. However when the road straightens back out. . .and you naturally straighten out the wheel. . .the car still goes in the direction you we headed!!! I actually have to counter stear the car to get to go straight. The car will not self correct to center!

Could this be an alignment issue. . .or did I do something horribly wrong?

BTW: I am fully planning on getting an aligment done in the very near future.

Opinions please!
-JR

 

[gmjunkie]

So, I will try to keep this short. Two months ago, I installed a new professionaly rebuilt tilt / tele steering colum, a new rag joint, a new rebuilt steering box, new tie rods (with ends) and I rebuit the drag link joint that the pitman arm connects too. I then went and had the car fully aligned. After, the car drove and handled excelently The steering with 1,000 times better than before.

So, that lead me to the next project. I just spent the last week rebuilding / restoring my entire front end (everything else): Ball joints, springs, busihings, control arms, spindles, wheel berings, shocks, Idler arm. . .etc.

After getting the car re-assembled, and triple checking the torq settings on everything. . .I lowered the car and took it out for a drive.

Everything feels nice and tight. . .and the bumbs felt a ton better. The car even seems to track straight.

HOWEVER, and here is the weird part. . .

When the road bends slightly to the left or righ, you naturally would turn the wheel to go arround the bend. However when the road straightens back out. . .and you naturally straighten out the wheel. . .the car still goes in the direction you we headed!!! I actually have to counter stear the car to get to go straight. The car will not self correct to center!

Could this be an alignment issue. . .or did I do something horribly wrong?

BTW: I am fully planning on getting an aligment done in the very near future.

Opinions please!
-JR

You will have to get it aligned,It was aligned with the other parts and there will no way it is in alignment now,the new parts are tighter than the old!!

 

[Bolisk]

So in your opinion. . .the behavior I'm seeing could very well be an aligment issue. I've had other people say it's gotta be something more.

 

[JohnZ]

So in your opinion. . .the behavior I'm seeing could very well be an aligment issue. I've had other people say it's gotta be something more.

Your caster (which provides steering self-centering action) is way off due to all the new parts, and camber and toe will also be off for the same reason. Get it to an alignment shop.

 

[LT4man]

Here's the third vote for an alignment!

You have to absolutely, positively, no doubt about it, take your vehicle in for an alignment! Then report back to us. I am betting that at that time you will be a happy camper!

AFTER ALIGNING YOUR VETTE, PLEASE DO NOT FORGET TO SAVE THE !

 

[Bolisk]

Ok, aligment complete. . .by a very trusted classic car alignment shop.

steering still all f-ed up! any other ideas?

I did notice that when I completed the rebuild, but before I put the car back on the ground, when a grabed the driver front wheel at the 9 and 3 oclock position. . .I could move the wheel back and forth about 1/2" without the steering wheel moving. Bad new ball joints?

 

[gmjunkie]

Ok, aligment complete. . .by a very trusted classic car alignment shop.

steering still all f-ed up! any other ideas?

Find a New Very Trusted Classic Car Alignment Shop!

I doubt that it is defective new ball joints,but if you had that much movement in the front,There is something definitely "Not Quite Right"!!
Without actually putting my hands on it and crawling around under it,it could be allot of things,But I would think that a alignment man should have caught it whatever it is!!
Unless of coarse he is actually a Toe and Go Artist and not really a alignment man!!

PS. Is this a Power Steering or Manuel car??

 

[Bolisk]

It's all manual everything. No power options at all

Actually, I had to pick the car up late. . .and when I did there was a big note on the bill saying "see fred". . .the aligment guy. Obviously he was long gone at that point. . .but I'm supposed to call him this am to get the word on what he found.

Just checking here to see if anyone can gues what he might have to say.

 

[Bolisk]

Now that I think about it. . .

I had one hell of a time getting the idler arm off the relay rod. Is it possible that I damaged the steering box with all that hammering on the pickel fork and the ponding that was probably relayed to the steering box?

 

[Bolisk]

So I talked to the aligment shop. . .as requested.

The aligment specialist (by the way this guy has done litteraly 1,000's of classic cars, and is the ONLY guy the local Vette restoration shops recommed) said that everything is VERY tight. . .and that I should drive the car a couple of hundered miles and grease all the fittings a couple of more times, then call him back and let him know if it gets any better.

I will say that I noticed that when I got everythign back together. . .the sterring was noticeably tighter. . .even up on jack stands. The idler arm being the tightest of them all. My vette shop guy gave me the heavy duty idler arm. . .saying it was better.

-JR

 

[Tstorm]

I am just wondering what was moving in the front end when you where able to move the wheel 1/2" at 9 and 3, which is generally in the linkage, 12 and 6 is the ball joints. Just a thought, the alignment guy checks all the things mentioned in previous replys, but not the steering column, could it be from the steering box back???? since the wheel did not move when you pulled on the tire???

 

[Bolisk]

I was thinking about that this morning actually. . .

And if memory serves. . .when I did that. . .there was a bit of a squeek acompanied with the movement.

Also, if memory serves. . .I had not yet conneted or torqued down the corntrol arm end caps. So I'm guessing that the movement was in the control arm to frame links.

Does that sound logical?

I will jack the car up tonight. . .and test it again.

 

[Bolisk]

with regards to the steering colum.

Before I did the suspension rebuild. . .the steering was perfect. I had just replaced the steering box, tie rods and ends, drag link ball joint thingy, and installed a brand new rebuilt (by a very trusted vette restoration shop) tilt- tele steering column. I even had the same guy do the aligment way back then after I did all that work.

So before I did the front suspenion. . .I was pleased as punch. Steering was shrap and a pleasure to drive.

Now, it just feels like there is too much play in the nutral (straight ahead) position. . .and the steering sticks slightly to the left or right when making slight left or right turns.

 

[Tstorm]

It does sound logical that the movement at 9 and 6 could be at those points, especially if everything else was real tight. But still, you are saying this is still happening after an alignment! I would think the alignment guy would have caught that!!! When you test it again, pay very close attention to where the movement is occuring in the linkage, and you will find your problem.......Good Luck and I hope trhis helps!!

 

[Bolisk]

Actually I don't know if that movent at the 3 and 9 postion still exists. . .I haven't tried it since I put the car down on the ground and tightened up the end caps. I will check that tonight.

 

[GTR1999]

Where is the lash screw on the box cover, are any threads showing above the nut? If not the gears are bottomed out and this may cause binding or slop.
To check the box get it on center then there should be no play in the S-wheel.
If you have a manual car then you just have the box & linkage to check.
You can contact me and I'll go over the steering system.

 

[Bolisk]

I may take you up on that offer. . .this evening.

for now. . .if memory servers. . .when the car is just sitting there. . .and I have everything straight. . .and I rock the s-wheel back and forth. . .the wheels do move as I would expect them to. . .with very little slop.

But I will double check everything. . .including torq specs on all the bolts tonight.

 

[Bolisk]

So re-double checked everything. I made two changes:

1) I reset the drag link end plate to the correct "flush" setting. It was seated to tightly before. . .like 2 or three threads tight.

2) I re-seated the wheel bearrings.

This was a marked improvment in the steering. In fact it's now close to where it was before I re-did the suspension. So, I'm feeling a lot better.

HOWEVER, I did notice one detail that is concerning me, when I was able to get a firend to help preform a test that was given to me by GTR1999 (thanks for your help Gary), which was to set the steering to dead center. . .(flat spot pointing strainght up) and check to see if the pitman arm moves the moment the input shaft to the steering box moves.

To answer GTR1999's question, yes. . .and no. Yes it moves but it does not rotate. . .it actually appears to have about a 1/32 of an inch of side play in the output shaft (pitman arm shaft). So when you turn the wheel the shaft moves to the side before the shaft rotates. Not sure this is correct. . .and am begining to think this is a badly rebuilt steering box.

So two questions. . .is this normal? And if not. . .how concerned should I be. . .in that can I drive it the remained of the season?

Thanks for everyones help,
Regards,
JonR

 

[GTR1999]

Jon
That is not correct and should be addressed. You will have sloppy steering but the box should not lock up or break. At a minimum I would remove the box and bench test it. I suspect from our conversation it has worn gears, fairly typical with some "rebuilt" boxes.

General note on boxes to others. You will see many prices on rebuilt boxes out there. Look at the lash screw when you buy one, if there are 1 or less threads showing above the lash nut,chances are the gears are done or very close to it.I would check them very closely. I've had many send to me that were recently rebuilt only to find them painted and over-greased and not one was in the correct range for preload or lash. Rebuilt boxes sold for $100-$200 will not have new gears in them.