Fuel Pump Issue ?

[Bwmurph]

I have what I think is a Fuel Pump going bad, but thought I would ask the experts what they thought of my problem.

A little background: This has happened twice now on the same route. I finish the lawn work at the house and decide to take the "Hot Rod" for a spin. My little route consists of 3 - 4 miles of stop & go traffic, then down Main St. at 15 - 25 MPH with several stop lights, then onto a 4 lane at 55 - 65 MPH for 4 or 5 miles. At the end of this 4 lane (going into another little town), at almost the exact same spot on two different days, the "Hot Rod" begins to buck and shudder like it's running out of gas.

The first time it happened I nursed it into town and slowed to the posted 20 MPH and the car did OK; got back out of town to a 50 MPH limit and headed home, about a 4 - 5 mile ride. Seemed fine on the way home, but I didn't really press it, either.

Yesterday, same thing: THe car started acting up at within 20 yards or where it startred the first time. Nursed it through town again and started heading home. THis time it game me trouble on the way home. It really feels like it's running out of gas, even to the point where it actually died on me going up a steep hill. I nursed over the hill, just about coasted down the other side and into a gas station, put US$ 20 in it and headed home (only about 1/2 mile). Still wsn't running right on the way home.

I get home, pop the hood, an don't see any thing out of the ordinary, except maybe that the glass fuel filter bowl doesn't seem to be full enough for me.

How full should this fuel bowl be ? Should I see little air bubbles in it as I hit the throttle and increase RPM ?

More info: Early Crate motor (350 CID / 300 HP) with original 2 x 4 carbs and intake; converted to Crane "Fireball" electronic ignition with original distributor last fall.

Other strange stuff: I originally, maybe still do, thought it might be an electrical problem. When I returned home from both trips all my radio pre-sets were gone. ????? When the problem first occurs it happens right underneath some massive power lines ?????

Any and all suggestions / help will be appreciated; sorry I got a little long winded.

Thanks,

Bernie O.

 

[BarryK]

Bernis

just a wild stab in the dark here but I honestly haven't a clue as you are well aware.........
If it happenes at the same exact place each time and it's under massive power lines, perhaps the power lines are radiating enough electromagnatic energy to screw with your electronic conversion kit in the ignition?

When I was doing car audio there were these massive power line cluster towers not too far away and I know customers complained all the time of strange, various electronic problems while driving past them.

can you try driving the same exact distance (mileage) down another route and see if the same problem occurs. or drive back to the same area yet again and see if the problems rears it's ugly head again to maybe conform it? Just not this weekend please - I'm leaving 3am tomorrow morning so won't be around to pick you up if the car dies on you completetly and you are stuck!

 

[Bwmurph]

Barry,

Sorry, had to shut the computer down last night for the big storm.
Anyway... that's what I was wondering: Will something like those power lines screw around with the electronic ignition. I would find it hard to believe, but just don't know. ALso, on the second trip the car continued to act up as I put a load on the motor.

ALthough I'm still leaning toward a fuel pump issue, it's strange that my radio pre-sets go away just like the battery was dis-connnected. Could it be something else electrical that, as things heat up, it causes a short that just happens to occur at the same time / place ? Horn relay ? Voltage Regulator ? I'll have to take another trip on a different route and see what happens I guess.

Thanks,

Bernie O.

 

[garth64]

If you have an additional internal carb filter I'd replace that first. When it stalls, take off your air cleaner, pump the accelerator and see if gas is squirting into the carb.

 

[Ken Anderson]

If your sender is original, then the sock may be stopped up.

 

[Bwmurph]

Garth,

Thanks for your reply; I doubt if it's the carb filter as all this was replaces when I rebuilt the carbs last fall; probably doesn't have 500 miles on it since the rebuild.

Ken,

thanks also, but the gas tank as well as sender were replaced approx 1.5 years ago. ALthough, I still can't trust the gas guage - never reads completely full and will run out of gas before it reads empty.

Bernie O.

 

[MidShark]

I had a similar experience with my '66, and it was a bad ignition coil.

Rich

 

[Subfixer]

I had a similar experience with my '66, and it was a bad ignition coil.

Rich

Same here......

 

[Bwmurph]

MidShark & Subfixer,

Thanks for the info; never considered the coil. How do you determine if the coil is bad or not ? Or should I just replace it ?

I'll be taking the car out for a ride (different route) sometime this afternoon to see if the problem comes up again.

I'm still leaning toward replacing the fuel pump anyway and now maybe the coil, although I hate to just throw money at a problem without really undertanding what's going wrong and why.

Also, does anybody know how full the glass fuel bowl on these dual quad carbs should be when the car is running ? Just one of those things I've never paid attention to and now I need to know.

Thanks,

Bernie O.

 

[BarryK]

Barnie

sorry, I was away for the weekend and just got back.
I really don't know the reason, but since it was electrial I was just throwing out an idea because of something I've come across in the past since you mentioned the massive power lines.
If others are suggesting the coil I'd probably try their ideas first. You know I don't know crap and barely muddle thru on my own problems.

BTW, we need to find a way to get that other project car you found down south here to home!! I want it!!

 

[Bwmurph]

Barry,

Hope you went and did something fun this weekend !

Anyway, I think I found the culprit: Took the car out for a spin late yesterday afternoon on a different route (Rt 896 S). As soon as I got out of Newark I got it up to 55 - 60 MPH and within minutes it starts shutting down. I pull over to the side of the road; pop the hood and check the fuel bowl: It's almost empty ! I nurse the car back home and get underneath and find that the flexible hose from the steel gas line that runs from the gas tank to the fuel pump is kinked to just about closed. I never did like the way this hose was run: it seems to me that the hose (which is supposedly "correct") is much to long. It always was bent at an odd angle since when it was installed, but I guess over time it has weakened and just kinked shut.

I started the car; the fuel bowl is almost empty; I reach under the car and straighten out the hose by hand and the fule bowl fills up immediately.

I have a picture to show you, but my dumb a** can't figure out how to get into this post; I'll e-mail it to you.

I may just go ahead an replace the fuel pump anyway and might step up to a hooteer coil as well. I also read a recent thread from someone about checking all yoiur grounds a reducing the electrical load; I have NEVER liked the way my starter has to crank and crank before it starts.

Later,

Bernie O.

 

[BarryK]

Bernie

here is your pic you sent me to post up for you.

yep, that hose looks to be pretty restrictive!

I can help you on the radio wiring anytime you want and give you a hand on the ground cables also. Come by whenever is good for you.

 

[Kid_Again]

...i think you found your problem and suggest you save yourself a LOT of time and make one change at a time......very good that you could see, and understand, the problem

...before I saw your final post, I thought MAYBE you have a vapor lock problem where the fuel line coming up off of the pump is touching the lower radiator hose (is that fuel line a hard line as it is supposed to be?)....you JUST have to see daylight (>1/8") between the ascending fuel line and the lower hose and you'll be fine.....

...you may have been referring to one of my posts about the alternator load, the results were absolutely astounding on the '65 sb and pretty darned impressive on the '66 bb when i had time to look things over....the '65 battery gauge now demonstrates much less draw than before (i run a Spal electric fan AND an underdrive pulley) and the '66 gauge QUICKLY returns to normal after startup (no electric fan but still run an underdrive pulley)...if your coil is shot, OK, that's one problem but if it's not, correcting the current grounding problems will make a small, but measurable difference in the quality of your spark


BTW, if it is your coil, replace the ballast resistor also


good luck

 

[BarryK]

Barry,

Hope you went and did something fun this weekend !

well, it was kinda fun, in a warped kind of way. I took a shower already so don't feel as dirty as I did while I was there......... but I was at the, are you ready for this one, All-Ford Nationals at Carlisle over the weekend!

Yep, I felt dirty being arounf all those Blue ovals!

Actually, there were a number of really nice cars there and few I wouldn't have minded seeing in my garage next to Baby.

Linda is a vendor in the Women's Oasis tent for that show, the Chrysler show next month, and the Corvette show. Plus, while we were there I took up a really nice '67 Mustang convertible to sell for my sister-in-law.
I got the car sold too and at her asking price so she was thrilled.

 

[JohnZ]

The photo of the hose looks like it's the incorrect (too long) replacement part that many vendors sold years ago; they were about 1-1/2" longer than the production part, and were prone to kinking. Paragon has the correct-length hose assembly.

 

[Bwmurph]

Kid,

Thanks for your comments. Yes, it is a hard line coming out of the fuel pump up to the carbs, although I do have a pressure regulator spliced in the line just about at valve cover height (regulator really helps during cornering).

Just how do you tell if a coil is bad,or going bad ? I have NEVER liked the way this car has started. I can understand that after the car sits for a few days or a week, but I have several friends whose cars start with just a touch of the key, some while standing OUTSIDE of the car (although I wouldn't recommend that).

I think Barry and I are going to tackle the chasing all the grounds and securing them when I get some time off from work. I'm assuing this will have the same or similar effect with a generator car.

Thanks again,

Bernie O.

 

[Bwmurph]

JohnZ,

Thanks, I think: I just orderd the part from Chicago Corvette; if they send one that's the same length as the one I've go I'll send it back.

I'm not sure who I got the last one from, but I know I never thought it was the "correct" part. I sure couldn't make it fit right without cutting and re-flaring the steel line from the tank (didn't want to do that !). Could that line be too long ? Mine looks a little longer than what I see in Noland Adams book.

Thanks,

Bernie O.

 

[Bwmurph]

Barry,

Nice cars are nice cars; I just happen to like GM's version of the sports car genre. I doubt if there's many of us who would turn down a Boss 302 or even a nice Porsche or Mercedes Gull Wing if given one.

I'lll send you some pic's of something else I saw in Argentina; I don't even know what it was, but it was pretty cool in it's own way.

Bernie O.

 

[BarryK]

Bernie
I agree, a nice car is a nice car.
My cousin has a '69 Mach 1 sitting in a shed up on our farm in NJ for about 15 years untouched, I'd love to be able to get the car from him as a project someday......
My favorite car of all time is a 1962 Ferrari 250GTO Tessa Rosa.

I'd still take your beautiful "Hotrod" over most anything (except that Ferrari )

 

[Kid_Again]

Here's what I saw when my coil was fried. The engine would start with great difficulty, and ran real rough. The coil was hot to the touch, hotter than usual. Suggested to me that I had a short in the coil. Don't know if all coils do that when they go. I changed the ballast resistor also because I threw an Ohmmeter on it and it was shot. Not sure if the resistor took the coil or vice verse.

Anyway, as noted before, make one change at a time to isolate your problem. Gas line first.

My bb fires up right away, the sb takes a while to crank. The sb was much improved by just making better ground conenctions.