hard moral question

[Deusxmachine]

I need some help with a delima Ive been having latley. I need more power. I have a 1990 vette. Its in medium shape with a few chips a rather large crack in the hood and a worn interior. theres really no body that builds engines anywhere where i live and my knowladge and tools are minimal. So i was thinking of getting a complete procharger system with the intercooler. i feel confident that i can do that by my self. So Ill spend @5000 grand to get about 360+ hp so procharger claims. This car is a auto with 65000 miles on it. Would i be creating a timebomb by supercharging. If i want more reliable power should i just give up on the c4 and get a newer camero with the ls1. How does the handling of a camero compare to a non z51 c4. The only 2 things keeping me in the vette are the handling and the fact that there are so many cameros on the road. I have figured the prices for upgrading my car versus selling it and getting a camero. They come out about even. What would you do and why. im losing sleep over this Thanks for any help guys

 

[Edmond]

I'll tell you this much: you can build a damn good engine for $5,000.

No engine builders in your area? Try to look up the local car clubs who can recommend a shop for you. There aren't that many shops in my immediate area but I've driven an hour to get to a shop before.

I like the old school way of not having forced induction. You can have a machine shop do the heads for somewhere in the $800 neighborhood. You can get a nice TPIS cam for $275 and a set of their coated full length headers for about $700. Comp cam 1.6 roller rockers for $220 or so.

K&N air filter for $50, cut the lid open yourself.

Flowmaster exhaust system for less than $500.

All that added up is less than $2500, which leaves money for a machine shop to work on the short block. Have them assemble the short block with new pistons and rings, you'll have to check your local pricing.

TPIS Big Mouth intake with some large tube runners would probably be another $900 or so.

All that stuff and you'll be putting out more power than a stock LS1 Camaro.

As for the seat covers, get a set of covers to tide you over until you can afford new leather.

Check out: www.vette2vette.com for any parts that you might need.

 

[Moonunit 451]

I'd have to pretty much agree with Edmond. Kentucky, no shops, C'mon man, you're in the heart of NASCAR!

On the other hand Edmond, this guy is young, and in the heart of the beast, he might be happier with a flashy Comaro and a wife beater for a while :L J/K

 

[vetteboy86]

I agree with Edmond, although prochargers are hard to turn down. I would not get rid of the vette. Like you said, everybody and their brother has a camaro. I do like them, and they do sport the chevy emblem. When my brothers car went down with engine trouble, I thought oh jeez there arent any shops in our area. However after looking around I found 3 very reputable ones. I would do some customer research before I turn my motor over to any one. I guess either way you will be putting down some serious power.

Good luck

Craig

 

[Edmond]

I gotta confess that even I have a Camaro!:L:L:L 83' Z28 that I haven't driven yet. I've had it sitting in the driveway for the past year and the furthest I've driven it was across the street. I just had to lay down some rubber in front of the guy's house who thought his Escort could beat the Vette' in a street race.

I whooped him good in that race but I wasn't going to waste my SZ50 tread on an Escort.

Back to the topic: get that phone book out, talk to local car nuts and start calling around and asking questions. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. If you really want to put a whoopin' on people, bore it over .030 and get a 400 crank for 383 cubic inches. A TPI on top of a 383? That is almost unbeatable on the street.

 

[Moonunit 451]

Hmm, the guys got an auto, did you forget about the trusty old Super Ram? :L

 

[Edmond]

Hmm, the guys got an auto, did you forget about the trusty old Super Ram? :L

The stories I've heard about the difficulty with installation of the SR turned me away from it.

Would the SR setup be cheaper than the TPIS Big Mouth and a set of large tube runners? I think the TPIS goes for about $900 or so with a ported plenum.

 

[Moonunit 451]

The stories I've heard about the difficulty with installation of the SR turned me away from it.

Would the SR setup be cheaper than the TPIS Big Mouth and a set of large tube runners? I think the TPIS goes for about $900 or so with a ported plenum.

Well no, I have it in addition to the Big Mouth and large tubes ported and polished.

And I don't blame you for being leary of the install. I wouldn't want to tackle it by myself either. Fortunately Corvette0096 lives nearby and helped me install it in an afternoon! :BOW

 

[Deusxmachine]

Thanks for all the feed back guys. No one has any positives for the supercharger. There are speed shops around here but im just not sure who to trust all the car guys around suggest shipping the engine out to a professional. That just sounds to expensive and just pulling the engine seems like a daunting task to me. Just taking the egr off tonight was a pain. I do love my car but Ls1 6 speed sounds so sweet. I guess this all started when i got beat by a 2002 Mustang gt, even though it wasnt by much. Cant stand to let a ford get ahead of me even if it is 12 years newer and still only got ahead by a car length. Does anybody have any opions on the differance between the handling of a camaro vs the c4, that will probally be the deciding factor on at least what car to stick with.

 

[78SilvAnniv]

Got $5k to spend?

You can get a fabulous GM crate engine for $3-4k in the hp range you are looking at and still have $1k left over to pay someone else to do the swap.
Crate engine will also come with a warranty.
Heidi

 

[Moonunit 451]

Hey man, if ya want a blower, get a blower. I think the point was that you could probly get a different more long term dependable kind of power for your $'s. Not that you couldn't do a LOT with "5000 grand"

Considering you're situation, why not throw a shot with a couple nice big bottles at it. That would be the biggest bang for your buck and your motor is low enough mi. it would probly handle it for quite a while.

The problem when you start throwing to much HP and tourqe at these A4's is that you blow out the D36's eventually.

Sorry, I just don't know anything about the handling of the Camaro's but I think I've read that it's really no comparison with the Vette.

Just ran accross this http://digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20686

 

[Tanreall]

Since his is a 90 he should have the D44 which is a little better then the D36.

I agree with the 383 idea you'll have great hp and unreal torque no mustang will keep up with you(03' cobras aren't mustangs)

what ever you decide on have fun with it. You might want to go test drive a camaro before you decide also.

 

[Deusxmachine]

Are you sure my 90 has a dana 44 I thought all autos had dana 36, That would be great news one less thing to worry about. I do know it has the 3.07 preformance option

 

[WayneLBurnham]

1st: Handling: No comparison 2nd: Crate Engine

No "dead axle" RWD can even remotely compare to an IRS vehicle....the camaro's handle good, but are just not in the same league. Your mid C4 with only the stock setups and not with the incredible aftermarket options offer the ability to hold maximum highway banked curves at 110-130 where the camaro would lose rear wheel control.

Now as to power...your engine is really too old to be bolting on a major power adder for long if you drive it the way GOD intended (which it sounds like you do...) Supercharging is the best power adder for most situations - nitrous is easier, cheaper (initially) and, in the lower levels not THAT hard on parts, but $40/90 secs use piles up in a hurry - but the modest power levels you're talking about (under 1.25 hp/cube or a max of 450ish in a small block) are easily achievable on "real motor" alone - and gives you a platform you COULD later put a power adder on safely to reach REAL power levels you would be hard pressed to find ANY rivals for, let alone the bargain American sportscar or some silly ricer.

GM offers some nice ones, so does Edelbrock and Bill Mitchell and a half dozen others. Do a little net research on JEGs, Summit, Scoggin Dickey and you'll find a crate engine exceeding your power levels for less than your proposal. The Edelbrock RPM package isn't 350hp, but 425!!! Spend another $300-750 and have it installed for you. Any local large chevy dealer could install one of the GM crates for you easily.

With some of the crate engine offerings, aim at killing vipers, Z06's and anything you're likely to see from Europe rather than just a cute little pony car or anything from across the Pacific with a 22' triple decker wing....

The 6 speed is going to be better than your rig - but especially if you like changing clutches... )) (More power, MUCH shorter clutch life...) A much better alternative in the tranny upgrade world is a Gear Vendors OD for that auto and a decent rebuilt/shift improver on your current one. With a much more powerful crate engine, you'll want a different torque converter at the least. Another alternative is a swapped 700R or 200. You C4 people have many of the best options.

Your diff should be able to handle routine abuse from anything up to 450-475 ft-lbs and easier use (like not off the line) as high as 600 and not go out prematurely - so that's pretty much anything in the really built up AND power added small block world.

If you don't like the hood or body panels any of the catalogs have them cheap as dirt - Corvette Central, MidAmerica, Eklers....all the usual half dozen suspects...

Now if only my new 415ish short block would COME IN at my shop!!! Argggh! the WAIT!!!!

 

[Edmond]

Don't know who to trust? Start asking around. The people who work on their own cars are generally the non BS types when it comes to their opinions on shops and brands, etc... Ask your neighbors. Visit the shops and check out the shop and their credentials.

There are probably some CAC members in your neck of the woods who could help you.

I would take the 383 over a SC for a few reasons:

1. If your car is aging, it may be burning or leaking something and rebuilding is probably in the near future.

2. Gotta love the extreme torque of the 383.

3. No replacement for displacement.

There is also the GM ZZ383 crate motor. You can get it at GM performance parts or Jegs or Summit Racing.

Have the shop do the short block for you and do the rest yourself. Trust me, it's much more gratifying building your car with tools than it is with a credit card.

 

[Moonunit 451]

With the exception that I would not consider 65,000 aging, I agree. There are some nice 350 crate motors out there at a very reasonable price that would be a significant upgrade. But I'm thinkin' if it were me I'd sure use the rermaining 40 - 100,000 mi left in the motor that's in the car in some fashion if I didn't just HAVE to have a new one now.

Also, not sure on the D36 - D44 issue myself as far as all Vettes having them.

 

[bossvette]

with $5000 and a 90 to trade you could step up to a 96lt4 or a early C5

 

[Deusxmachine]

I like the earlier c4 body a lot more than the later so trading in for a newer one is not realy an option for me. I have given up on the supercharger idea nobody on the forums or around here has much good to say about them. Im pretty sure im sticking with the vette now. Im not ready for a engine swap yet, but how about this: the big mouth manifold and slp runners, ported phelum, 52 milli throttle body, and long tube headers. I already have the borla stinger cat back and a KN with a open lid. All this with a nice chip should get me a some more power right? These are things i can do myself and ill need the better intake and exaust for a GM 383 crate or something like that latter on. What do you guys think about that set up, would it get more HP and keep the tourqe too. How much could i expect? Thanks for all the help and replys everybody

 

[Edmond]

I like the earlier c4 body a lot more than the later so trading in for a newer one is not realy an option for me. I have given up on the supercharger idea nobody on the forums or around here has much good to say about them. Im pretty sure im sticking with the vette now. Im not ready for a engine swap yet, but how about this: the big mouth manifold and slp runners, ported phelum, 52 milli throttle body, and long tube headers. I already have the borla stinger cat back and a KN with a open lid. All this with a nice chip should get me a some more power right? These are things i can do myself and ill need the better intake and exaust for a GM 383 crate or something like that latter on. What do you guys think about that set up, would it get more HP and keep the tourqe too. How much could i expect? Thanks for all the help and replys everybody

According to my TPIS catalog, you can get:

22HP with a fully ported Big Mouth
10HP for the runners

I suspect the long tube headers could get you another 10.

I think the Stingers have got you about 8-10 and the K&N with the lid is probably around 5HP.

That being said, you can't add HP in a linear way.

If you really want results, you have to do the heads and cam.

If you want acceleration, do the gears.

 

[Daryllawman]

Forget the Camaro.........Keep the Vette !!