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How to get the KH knockoffs off!!

Andy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
434
Location
Pennsylvania
Corvette
1976 Millenium Yellow / 1979 Greenwood Daytona
Hi Guys..I usually spend a good deal of time in the C3 forum, but could use everyones advice here. Friend of mine has a '64 and is trying to take his knockoffs off....he is having major problems..The KO's haven't been off in 4 years!!!!!

What can he do.....

Thanks,

Andy
 
First of all, patience

lots of advice will pop up here, all of it good and here's what worked for me.

The '65s KO's were put on so tightly that they galled, so expect that situation. Pull the center caps and look for any safety pins. Try to pull them straight out. If they do not come out, pound on the spinners AS NOTED BELOW....turn them in the direction that results in the best alignment, even if it results in SLIGHTLY tightening the spinner. Any movement of the spinner is a good sign. If there is no way to remove them, then the pins must be drilled out . If they are aluminum, it's a 15 minute job. If they're stainless steel, it's a 2 hour job and a number of drill bits. No other way.

At the same time SOAK each set of spinner threads with a liquid penetrant (took me a full week of soaking to get the first spinner loosened). I think WD40 is a waste of time here because it is NOT designed to loosen nuts. Buy the stuff that is actually designed to do so (Yeah, I use WD40 for loosening nuts but this calls for the real stuff, save him the grief).

Now comes the interesting part of whacking the spinners off. I use the small short-handled STEEL mallet sold by The Big Orange Box and an old piece of tire as protection against marring the spinner. It will take a long time. Usually better with two guys just because it can be exhausting work and you want to get them all off once one loosens up. The car must be on the ground.

Finally, since I'm a controversial kind of guy, I'll preempt the discussion with my own personal opinion about lead hammers, dead blow hammers, fancy tools, etc. I have bought, and subsequently sold every other gizmo that alleges to loosen knock off spinners. Forget the lead hammer, use it only when you are at shows. Forget the triangular shaped wrench with the polyurethane insert - I sold mine to a good buddy who is MUCH more patient than I am. I just want the friggin' things off and it you're not careful, the handle will scratch the paint around the wheel wells. ASK me how I know. The mallet and old tire are the cheapest way to go and and as good as anything else expect for my blocks of lead.

My favorite tool happens to be a 25lb block of solid lead that I liberated from an X-ray lab that was being demolished. VNV has seen it in my garage and still can't believe there is such a thing. Problem is, you just can't find this stuff if you're a civilian.

The next part is more important. Search the recent thread here about KO's and find VietNam Vett's post of a .pdf file which is the installation instructions for the KO's. You need to pay attention to the fact that the hubs need to be on the correct side and the wheels sit in the proper holes, etc. These instructions are invaluable.

To reinstall, cover the threads with antisieze grease (Yup, that's what I recommend) and install roll pins instead of the solid pins. Mark the spinner and hub with a sharpie (or paint), drive the car for at least 10 miles, park it and check to see if there has been any movement. Adjust accordingly.

The antisieze is important because it makes a big difference in removal during a flat, for example.

Now that they are easy to remove, I would remove the KO's and place them for sale on Ebay. I had two sets and took them off of both cars - I just NEVER trusted them. Never had any problems when I understood what to do but when I was a newbie, I almost drove one wheel off the hub. Never again.
 
Kid_Again said:
My favorite tool happens to be a 25lb block of solid lead that I liberated from an X-ray lab that was being demolished.

Ok, I'll bite... How do you use the 25lb block of lead??
 
Can I nibble? What does it look like? I know you stated 25 pound block of lead, but surely it is not just a square 25 pound block.

Ok, I'll bite... How do you use the 25lb block of lead??

Would these be the same?

25 lbs lead
 
Original K-O wheel didn't have the safety pins. Some have used aluminum and others have used steel safety pins.

Removing them is not for the faint of heart. As stated above, you need a BFH lead type and then really wail on the ear.
Another option is to use a "gorilla bar" removal tool. SDeveral vendors sell them.

Installation torque is 450 ft-lbs, and check the tightness often. I do not reccommend any type of anti-seize on the threads. You just don't want them getting loose!

Don
 
Boy, I thought you almost found another supply of lead bricks!!!! But they ADD up to 25lbs. These are one solid piece of lead, rectangularly shaped, that weigh 25lbs each. I have a picture of one below. You can see the end is all smashed from the spinners.

You CAN NOT get more torque on point than taking one of these puppies, raising it over your head, pushing as hard as you can and hitting the end of spinner. It NEVER marrs. NO knock off will resist this mother if you soak the threads in penetrant. Any galled KO's in Central/South Jersey, give me a call. You come over, my brick, your sweat...no sweat for me!

If you want one of these puppies, try dating an X-ray tech. Ask her to show you her lead :rotfl
 
Kid_Again said:
...raising it over your head, pushing as hard as you can and hitting the end of spinner. It NEVER marrs.

Kid,
You obviously have a lot more confidence in your aim than I have with mine. Raising and swinging 25lbs of anything over a fiberglass fender would scare the daylights out of me! :bang But, if I was a spinner, I know I wouldn't resist... Thanks for the clarification.
Jeff
 
alps66 said:
Kid,
You obviously have a lot more confidence in your aim than I have with mine. Raising and swinging 25lbs of anything over a fiberglass fender would scare the daylights out of me! :bang But, if I was a spinner, I know I wouldn't resist... Thanks for the clarification.
Jeff


I'll tell 'ya what's scary. That triangular tool with the insert. I get all focused on extending the handle, readjusting the grip and then I notice the PAINT :hb. JL66REDCPE is MUCH more careful than I am.

The nice part about the lead brick is that you can angle it in and avoid any problems. It gets a BIT heavy.
 
Vetsvette2002 said:
Installation torque is 450 ft-lbs, and check the tightness often. I do not reccommend any type of anti-seize on the threads. You just don't want them getting loose!

Don

What holds the wheels on (and keeps the spinner tight) isn't torque on the spinner, it's the clamping force developed in the joint (where the spinner meets the wheel) as a result of torque on the spinner; a film of anti-seize on the threads and on the chamfer of that joint pretty much eliminates thread and sliding friction, which dramatically increases the clamping force with the same applied torque on the spinner. Without a lubricant, as much as 60% of applied torque is wasted overcoming thread friction, which eventually results in galling the threads and sliding surfaces.

Any highly-stressed threaded fastener (which the spinner and adapter are, like head bolts, main bolts, rod bolts, etc.) and any washers or sliding elements in the joint should be lubricated in order to ensure that the desired clamping force is developed in the joint with the specified applied torque.

Learned the above during a six-month stint as a Fastener Engineer at Chevrolet Engineering in the 60's, has served me well ever since. ARP, SPS, and the other specialty high-stress fastener manufacturers will tell you exactly the same thing; they stake their reputation on it every day.
:beer
 
Andy said:
Hi Guys..I usually spend a good deal of time in the C3 forum, but could use everyones advice here. Friend of mine has a '64 and is trying to take his knockoffs off....he is having major problems..The KO's haven't been off in 4 years!!!!!

What can he do.....

Thanks,

Andy

Besides the aluminum or steel pins that have been mentioned, I've also seen Allen Head set screws used.

Tell your bud to stop beating on the wheels. Pop of the center cover of the spinner and look for these pins or screws. If they're there, remove them as previously stated.

Original KO's did NOT use them. Repros may or may not use them. Chuck
 
JohnZ...



;worship
 
I have seen this done. Blocks of lead are very easy to find. Go to a plumbing supply house. I purchase these from time to time. Get a big soup can drill two holes on the sides make sure the holes are big enough for the handle (get a big handle not one that is hammer size). Insert the handle. Heat up the lead pour it in the can. Let cool remove can. It works. Mark. I make a mean meatloaf as well.
 
Mark Stahl said:
Get a big soup can drill two holes on the sides make sure the holes are big enough for the handle (get a big handle not one that is hammer size). Insert the handle. Heat up the lead pour it in the can. Let cool remove can. It works. Mark. I make a mean meatloaf as well.

Mark
What a neat idea!
Just for the record, I measured the head of my 6 pound hammer. It's 3 3/8" long x 2 1/4" diam., a tad smaller than the internal dimensions of a small Campbells soup can (inside dimensions roughly 3 3/4" x 2 1/2" diam.). A large soup can filled with lead would make one hefty hammer (and would probably be about as heavy as my grandmother's matzah ball soup...).
A few words of caution about handling lead, however. You don't want to be breathing the fumes of the molten lead. Make sure there's adequate ventilation. Also, wash your hands thoroughly after handling, as you don't want any hand to mouth contact. And it's not something you want children to be exposed to (even though many of us probably played with lead soldiers - which may explain a lot about us...)
:J
With that disclaimer, thanks for the 'recipe'.
Jeff
 
What good ideas. Well, he had these KO's drilled and pinned 4 years ago as one came off and caused a bit of damage, that he had quickly replaced, therefore the pinning. He had them pinned as he was told they were original KH KO's. From what I read, during 63-67, KH KO's were installed on only 3% of the midyears produced.....

I hope to get over his house tonight.

I'll post an update.

Appreciate everyones reply on this........

Andy










alps66 said:
Mark
What a neat idea!
Just for the record, I measured the head of my 6 pound hammer. It's 3 3/8" long x 2 1/4" diam., a tad smaller than the internal dimensions of a small Campbells soup can (inside dimensions roughly 3 3/4" x 2 1/2" diam.). A large soup can filled with lead would make one hefty hammer (and would probably be about as heavy as my grandmother's matzah ball soup...).
A few words of caution about handling lead, however. You don't want to be breathing the fumes of the molten lead. Make sure there's adequate ventilation. Also, wash your hands thoroughly after handling, as you don't want any hand to mouth contact. And it's not something you want children to be exposed to (even though many of us probably played with lead soldiers - which may explain a lot about us...)
:J
With that disclaimer, thanks for the 'recipe'.
Jeff
 
Some background. The original KH's that came with the cars or were available OTC from GM when the cars were in production did not have the slots for pins.

Some time later, Western Wheel reproduced the wheels, they have KH markings, spinner either unmarked or marked "Made in USA" but they had the holes. I have a pair of those repops myself.

These are completely different than the currently available repops which are made 'WAY offshore.
 
KO WHEEL REFERENCE

I would also suggest you get a copy of Corvette Enthusiast March 2006. there is an excellent article on the care and feeding of these wheels. Good luck!!!
 

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