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Hugh Oil Problem - I Really Need Help.

C

CAJUN C4

Guest
Okay lets go to the basics. Did you run the same filter for 3 years or had you changed the filter just before this all started? Do you change your own filter or do you have someone do it for you? This may sound silly but my dad and I ran a 1960 250K with three different engines. The original 283 then a 327 and finally a 350. When we would go to have the oil changed usually the mechanic looked at the age of the car and tried to put a 1960 filter on it. Like Grump says I think your problem is a simply one. Sometimes we get so focused on a part of the problem, that we lose sight of every thing else that might contribute to the problem.
I used the Fram TG since inseption.I understand, now, not to. I just put on a Mobil 1 yesterday...seems fine.I guess I couldn't believe it could be the filter.
I'll keep you all posted how it makes out.
 
L

Louis Bartay

Guest
I used the Fram TG since inseption.I understand, now, not to. I just put on a Mobil 1 yesterday...seems fine.I guess I couldn't believe it could be the filter.
I'll keep you all posted how it makes out.

FYI, on your 96 LT4 Mobil makes two oil filters for it. They both will work but the M1-201 Extended Performance is the longer one and the correct one for the 96 LT4.( just tell the auto supply you have a 96 GS) Or use the K&N HP-2001 Performance Gold filter, it has a nut on the bottom and is easier to remove. Hope your problem is solved.
 
C

CAJUN C4

Guest
FYI, on your 96 LT4 Mobil makes two oil filters for it. They both will work but the M1-201 Extended Performance is the longer one and the correct one for the 96 LT4.( just tell the auto supply you have a 96 GS) Or use the K&N HP-2001 Performance Gold filter, it has a nut on the bottom and is easier to remove. Hope your problem is solved.

Thanx Louis.It is my 84' I'm having the problems with.
 
C

CAJUN C4

Guest
FYI, on your 96 LT4 Mobil makes two oil filters for it. They both will work but the M1-201 Extended Performance is the longer one and the correct one for the 96 LT4.( just tell the auto supply you have a 96 GS) Or use the K&N HP-2001 Performance Gold filter, it has a nut on the bottom and is easier to remove. Hope your problem is solved.

I think the Mobil 1 is a better filter. 99% vs 90% for the K & N Multi-Pass.
 
L

Louis Bartay

Guest
I think the Mobil 1 is a better filter. 99% vs 90% for the K & N Multi-Pass.

I use the Mobil 1 unless Auto Zone Auto Supply ( a block from my house) is out, then I will buy the K&N. Both are almost $10.00 each. The GM AC Delco PF-52 is about $3.00 each. For the last 7 years I have 95% of the time used the Mobil 1 M1-201 and the K&N the other times if they were out of the Mobil 1. And Wall Mart has the 5/30 Mobil 1 in 5 qt. bottles for about $22.00 ( a lot cheaper ) I just had my LT4 completely rebuilt, Eagle crank,rods, new pistons .020 over, decked the block and milled the heads .010 and had the complete engine Balanced, new valves, Comp springs etc. and the Corrvette shop used a PF-52 filter.??

Am I wasting my money on the more expensive filters??
 
C

CAJUN C4

Guest
I hate to say "You Told Me So"

I changed the filter Saturday with a Mobil 1 ..and Lo & Behold it seems alot better.Great Oil pressure,No Leaks and my Cold Lifter start up noise is alot better.,..Go Figure.I am going to change ths Filter adapter when it comes in.
I'll keep you informed.

Thanx again guys
 

grumpyvette

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2001
Messages
841
Location
Loxahatchee, FL, Palm Beach co
I use the Mobil 1 unless Auto Zone Auto Supply ( a block from my house) is out, then I will buy the K&N. Both are almost $10.00 each. The GM AC Delco PF-52 is about $3.00 each. For the last 7 years I have 95% of the time used the Mobil 1 M1-201 and the K&N the other times if they were out of the Mobil 1. And Wall Mart has the 5/30 Mobil 1 in 5 qt. bottles for about $22.00 ( a lot cheaper ) I just had my LT4 completely rebuilt, Eagle crank,rods, new pistons .020 over, decked the block and milled the heads .010 and had the complete engine Balanced, new valves, Comp springs etc. and the Corrvette shop used a PF-52 filter.??

Am I wasting my money on the more expensive filters??

NO YOUR NOT WASTING your money but the filters vary a good deal and the PF-52 is NOT one of the really crappy filters
read
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

the mobile filter IS better than many. if your looking to save a few bucks the PURE1 and WIX are a decent sellection... or as one of my buddies says "ANYTHING IN A NATIONALLY KNOWN BRAND BUT FRAM" as long as youll change it and the OIL every 3500-4000 miles
 

Boeingdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Messages
157
Location
Memphis
Corvette
'96 LT4 Coupe, White/Red - '03 Z06 Black/Torch Red
I just had my LT4 completely rebuilt, Eagle crank,rods, new pistons .020 over, decked the block and milled the heads .010 and had the complete engine Balanced, new valves, Comp springs etc. and the Corrvette shop used a PF-52 filter.??

Louis.....Did your engine get tired or did something break? Out of consideration for the other engines we all have (LT4s), what prompted the rebuild?
 
L

Louis Bartay

Guest
I just had my LT4 completely rebuilt, Eagle crank,rods, new pistons .020 over, decked the block and milled the heads .010 and had the complete engine Balanced, new valves, Comp springs etc. and the Corrvette shop used a PF-52 filter.??

Louis.....Did your engine get tired or did something break? Out of consideration for the other engines we all have (LT4s), what prompted the rebuild?


Me being Really STUPID. My LT4 had 75,000 miles and used about a quart of oil every 1500 miles if I played hard with it. I let it get about a quart and a half low and ran it hard on the Hiway for a few miles and it starved for oil. I spun a main bearing and a few rod bearings. I have owned it for 7 years and I Never let it get low on oil and changed Mobil 1 5/30 Syn and Mobil 1 filter every 3500 miles. I am 56 and have Drag Raced Motorcycles (Sales Manager D&D Performance Exhaust for years) and several SM Chevy's since I was a teenager. Man you have no Idea how pi__ed off I am at ME. I raised four kids and waited 30 years for my First Vette and I do something this STUPID. I will never assume it is full of oil. As my LT4 never leaked oil, really.

The oil sensor in the oil pan was bad so my IDIOT light never came on and I had good oil pressure until That Sound and vibration started. It has 1200 miles on the new engine now and I have changed the oil and filter(non syn) every 500 and have not reved it past 3500 RPM and have used the tranny for slowing down to help break in the rings etc. I have changed the oil for the 3rd time to Mobil 1 5/30 Syn and a Mobil 1 filter and pushed it to 5900 RPM 2nd thru 5th gear for the first time and the oil pressure stayed at 55 to 60 PSI and it runs better than ever. I am just out $7,000.00 parts and labor but my Vette is like NEW as last yer I had a new Duel Mass FW and OEM clutch installed.
 

Boeingdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Messages
157
Location
Memphis
Corvette
'96 LT4 Coupe, White/Red - '03 Z06 Black/Torch Red
Me being Really STUPID. My LT4 had 75,000 miles and used about a quart of oil every 1500 miles if I played hard with it. I let it get about a quart and a half low and ran it hard on the Hiway for a few miles and it starved for oil. I spun a main bearing and a few rod bearings. I have owned it for 7 years and I Never let it get low on oil and changed Mobil 1 5/30 Syn and Mobil 1 filter every 3500 miles. I am 56 and have Drag Raced Motorcycles (Sales Manager D&D Performance Exhaust for years) and several SM Chevy's since I was a teenager. Man you have no Idea how pi__ed off I am at ME. I raised four kids and waited 30 years for my First Vette and I do something this STUPID. I will never assume it is full of oil. As my LT4 never leaked oil, really.

The oil sensor in the oil pan was bad so my IDIOT light never came on and I had good oil pressure until That Sound and vibration started. It has 1200 miles on the new engine now and I have changed the oil and filter(non syn) every 500 and have not reved it past 3500 RPM and have used the tranny for slowing down to help break in the rings etc. I have changed the oil for the 3rd time to Mobil 1 5/30 Syn and a Mobil 1 filter and pushed it to 5900 RPM 2nd thru 5th gear for the first time and the oil pressure stayed at 55 to 60 PSI and it runs better than ever. I am just out $7,000.00 parts and labor but my Vette is like NEW as last yer I had a new Duel Mass FW and OEM clutch installed.

Ouch. And of all the people that this shouldn't happen to.

What do you calculate the C/R to be with .010" off the deck and heads?
 

grumpyvette

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2001
Messages
841
Location
Loxahatchee, FL, Palm Beach co
"my First Vette and I do something this STUPID. I will never assume it is full of oil. As my LT4 never leaked oil, really.

The oil sensor in the oil pan was bad so my IDIOT light never came on and I had good oil pressure until That Sound and vibration started."


another excellent reason to run a higher than stock capacity oil pan, if your a qt low on a 8-10 qt oil pan its a whole lot less important than on a 5 qt capacity oil pan
STF-2255.gif

1075_full.jpg

1074_full.jpg
 
L

Louis Bartay

Guest
Ouch. And of all the people that this shouldn't happen to.

What do you calculate the C/R to be with .010" off the deck and heads?

The Speed Pro Hyper pistons .020 over size is what the installed. I have to go by the machine shop today and pick up my old LT4 parts. They said I was about 10:9 to 1 comp. now with .039 gaskets. I will have to get the part# and what cc dish the pistons and go to their web site and do the math with the 54 cc LT4 heads. :-( Still Mad at ME.

Louis
.
 

Boeingdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Messages
157
Location
Memphis
Corvette
'96 LT4 Coupe, White/Red - '03 Z06 Black/Torch Red
LT4 Engine Wear?

The Speed Pro Hyper pistons .020 over size is what the installed. I have to go by the machine shop today and pick up my old LT4 parts. They said I was about 10:9 to 1 comp. now with .039 gaskets. I will have to get the part# and what cc dish the pistons and go to their web site and do the math with the 54 cc LT4 heads. :-( Still Mad at ME.

Louis
.

My guess was 10.9 too. You shouldn't have any problems with 93 octane gas but I'd be interested to know if you do. I have an 1100 cc Honda motorcyle engine with factory 11:1 that tolerates 93 octane without a problem. I'd just like to know where the limit is on street gas.

And I was going to ask whether you recovered your old parts. It might be of interest to the LT4 forum to see and/or hear your description of the condition of the OEM parts after 70 to 80 k miles. I know that the engine starved for oil, but that damage should be identifiable and separate from normal wear which is what the forum might be interested in. Having one of these engines rebuilt by a knowledgeable forum member is a little unusual and at least for myself, I'd really like to know the extent of wear that you found in this engine.....not counting the spun bearing(s) and rods protruding from the pan of course (and I'm kidding here).

Here's a story that might make you feel a little better about the situation.

Back in the '80s, Rick Mears scattered an engine all over the track at Indianapolis right before opening day qualifications. The ESPN interview guy asked whether they had uncovered a failure-prone weak point in the (at that time) Chevrolet engine. Being well-trained, Rick responded in perfect Penske Coroporate-Speak, saying; "On no, there's no problem with the Chevrolet engine, we just had an oil filter failure."

To that, the quick-witted David Hobbs said that yes, it was an oil filter problem caused by three connecting rods trying to pass through the filter at one time.

Regards,
 
L

Louis Bartay

Guest
My guess was 10.9 too. You shouldn't have any problems with 93 octane gas but I'd be interested to know if you do. I have an 1100 cc Honda motorcyle engine with factory 11:1 that tolerates 93 octane without a problem. I'd just like to know where the limit is on street gas.

And I was going to ask whether you recovered your old parts. It might be of interest to the LT4 forum to see and/or hear your description of the condition of the OEM parts after 70 to 80 k miles. I know that the engine starved for oil, but that damage should be identifiable and separate from normal wear which is what the forum might be interested in. Having one of these engines rebuilt by a knowledgeable forum member is a little unusual and at least for myself, I'd really like to know the extent of wear that you found in this engine.....not counting the spun bearing(s) and rods protruding from the pan of course (and I'm kidding here).

Here's a story that might make you feel a little better about the situation.

Back in the '80s, Rick Mears scattered an engine all over the track at Indianapolis right before opening day qualifications. The ESPN interview guy asked whether they had uncovered a failure-prone weak point in the (at that time) Chevrolet engine. Being well-trained, Rick responded in perfect Penske Coroporate-Speak, saying; "On no, there's no problem with the Chevrolet engine, we just had an oil filter failure."

To that, the quick-witted David Hobbs said that yes, it was an oil filter problem caused by three connecting rods trying to pass through the filter at one time.

Regards,


That was Funny, oil filter :). I had a 1983 CB1100 F Red&White for 10 years. Wish I still had it. I still have my 1986 FJ1200 Yamaha, 1310 Big Bore kit, Ported Head, three angle valve job, 40 MM CV carbs, Falicon Billet clutch hub, etc. I have had it for 15 years. I am 6ft 3 and I can ride it all day and my back does not hurt. Sold my 2000 Busa that I traded a 98 ZX9R and cash for in 2001.

I will PM you when I get all my LT4 used parts back and measure the block and see how much cylinder wear it had. I was a Machinist in the early 70's ran a Bridgeport Mill and Engine Lath when I was in my 20's. I still have all my tools so I will let you know.

Louis
 
L

Louis Bartay

Guest
"my First Vette and I do something this STUPID. I will never assume it is full of oil. As my LT4 never leaked oil, really.

The oil sensor in the oil pan was bad so my IDIOT light never came on and I had good oil pressure until That Sound and vibration started."


another excellent reason to run a higher than stock capacity oil pan, if your a qt low on a 8-10 qt oil pan its a whole lot less important than on a 5 qt capacity oil pan
STF-2255.gif

1075_full.jpg

1074_full.jpg
Thanks Grumpy, will I have a clearence problem? My house is on a hill and my driveway is a angle, I am just able to get the Vette in the garage. It scrapes the air dam if I drive straight at the shop. I have too drive up at a angle. :-(
 

Boeingdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Messages
157
Location
Memphis
Corvette
'96 LT4 Coupe, White/Red - '03 Z06 Black/Torch Red
That was Funny, oil filter :). I had a 1983 CB1100 F Red&White for 10 years. Wish I still had it. I still have my 1986 FJ1200 Yamaha, 1310 Big Bore kit, Ported Head, three angle valve job, 40 MM CV carbs, Falicon Billet clutch hub, etc. I have had it for 15 years. I am 6ft 3 and I can ride it all day and my back does not hurt. Sold my 2000 Busa that I traded a 98 ZX9R and cash for in 2001.

I will PM you when I get all my LT4 used parts back and measure the block and see how much cylinder wear it had. I was a Machinist in the early 70's ran a Bridgeport Mill and Engine Lath when I was in my 20's. I still have all my tools so I will let you know.

Louis

.....I kind of figured that you had this background.....both with hot bikes and with machinist experience. That's why I'd like to hear your impressions of the parts.

I'm a pilot and have spent time (too much) burning 100 octane in big displacement piston engines. That kind of work gives you plenty of time to think about what's going on inside the engine and makes you quite sensitive to little sounds, vibrations, etc. We use 50 wt. straight weight oil in those engines and expect to burn a certain amount during flight. The piston to wall clearances are set up pretty loose as these are air-cooled engines and the oil is expended to help seal the rings. Sort of like the theory of two-stroke motorcycle engines with total loss oil systems.

Anyway, let the forum know what you find with those parts and thanks for the warning about how sensitive this engine is to oil level. I topped mine up last night after I drove home.

Regards,
11-25-2006-22.jpg
 

grumpyvette

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2001
Messages
841
Location
Loxahatchee, FL, Palm Beach co
"Thanks Grumpy, will I have a clearence problem"


thats easy enought to find out/prove/disprove, your current stock oil pans 7" deep if your thinking about installing a 7.5" deep an put some 3/4"-1" thick measured squares of modeling clay on each of the 4 corners of the sump and drive into the drive/garage if its untouched your home free
 
L

Louis Bartay

Guest
"Thanks Grumpy, will I have a clearence problem"


thats easy enought to find out/prove/disprove, your current stock oil pans 7" deep if your thinking about installing a 7.5" deep an put some 3/4"-1" thick measured squares of modeling clay on each of the 4 corners of the sump and drive into the drive/garage if its untouched your home free


Thanks Grumpy

I will try that this week end. The new pan ( if it will clear the driveway) will have to wait until after Christmas. My wife is about to make me sleep in Vette after all the $$ I spent. :)
 
L

Louis Bartay

Guest
.....I kind of figured that you had this background.....both with hot bikes and with machinist experience. That's why I'd like to hear your impressions of the parts.

I'm a pilot and have spent time (too much) burning 100 octane in big displacement piston engines. That kind of work gives you plenty of time to think about what's going on inside the engine and makes you quite sensitive to little sounds, vibrations, etc. We use 50 wt. straight weight oil in those engines and expect to burn a certain amount during flight. The piston to wall clearances are set up pretty loose as these are air-cooled engines and the oil is expended to help seal the rings. Sort of like the theory of two-stroke motorcycle engines with total loss oil systems.

Anyway, let the forum know what you find with those parts and thanks for the warning about how sensitive this engine is to oil level. I topped mine up last night after I drove home.

Regards,
11-25-2006-22.jpg


My parents had a Flying School here in Ft. Worth when I was a kid. My Dad is/was (retired) AC Tech. Air Frame and Power Plant. He use to restore WACO Bi Planes. It's no wonder I like Fast toys. I remember setting in Mom's lap doing Touch&Goes when I was about 10. Roller Coasters at 6 Flags were boring after Flying with Mom. Dad would not do anything Cool when we flew.

I will make a post when I get the block back. Before I worked at D&D, I sold MS, NAS A/C hardware and AN fittings at ASC INdustries in Arlington Texas for years. When Northrop lost the B-2 program I got laid off and went to work at D&D.
 
V

vetdaddy

Guest
From a past experience (another one of those "don't ask" experiences)- Sometimes when the old oil filter is pulled off, the gasket from that filter remains on the block. So when the new filter is installed there are now two gaskets. I can tell you from my personal experience that this does not seal well and creates the opportunity for a whole lot of oil to escape very quickly.

I can only hope that your problem is this simple, other than that I will yield to others more experienced. Cheers!!!
 

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