I need some help from the legal minds....

[John Robinson]

Another Idea

I have another take on what you can use to resolve this situation. Guido and the boys (just kidding) What I would suggest is the written documentation suggested by others. Next go to a lawyer and when talking to the lawyer tell them you feel your rights were violated. In this situation the shop has the same obligation to inform you of what they are doing and what possible consequences it could cause. If you are arrested the police have to inform you of your rights and possible consequences. The same law apply's to any situation that would violate your right to make a decision about what you want to do. By doing things that were not approved by you they violated your rights. My guess is that this was an old time mechanic with 1950 training. He probable believed in what he was doing. However his work ethic as describe by the sloppy workmanship you described suggest he was not knowledgeble to work on anything newer than 1970 models and only then if they were lawn mowers.:W

 

[vetteboy86]

When I told the guy, I didn't believe in putting additives in the oil, because of what others have told me (c4c5) included he kind of smiled. He told me everyone has there myths, and that because todays oils break down faster then years ago he always runs additives in his race cars. To me that doens't make sense.

Craig

 

[Edmond]

Okay, you know the guy is FOS when he says that today's oils break down faster than oils of years ago. Sorry to put it like that but that's what it's come down to.

 

[Chris Kennedy]

I will send more details later today or tomorrow, but my initial thoughts are as follows:

1. Documentation of the problem is essential, but do it with the goal in mind that you are going to have to convince an uninvolved third party (judge, mediator etc.) who doesn't know either you or the mechanic that YOU are the most credible party. This means that you will have to go the extra mile, with detailed pictures, sketches etc etc. I would also be careful to document or preserve any types of evidence which might be subject to being lost (e.g., either keep all the smudges on the engine, or take detailed pictures before wiping them off.). ORGANIZE IT ALL IN A NOTEBOOK, TOO! Don't just throw things in an envelope. Parties who appear organized, with attention to detail, come across as being more believable.

2. Get an estimate of the damages. Most states have laws which direct whether certain claims go to small claims courts, or regular courts. People in these courts have different rights, restrictions.

More later,

/s/ Chris Kennedy

 

[vetteboy86]

Well here is a new developement. My father placed a call to him while I was at work today. He feels really bad about the situation. He is not totally sure it was his fault, but he thinks it could have been. Also it might have been a combination of engine wear, and the work he did. Anyways he want's to make the situation better for me, and his reputation. He has offered to rebuild my engine for no labor costs. All I would need to do is supply the parts.

So he pretty much admits he has done something, but not quite sure what it is.

Who knows.....

 

[Edmond]

Well, that's a step in the right direction. I'm glad the guy reacted the way he did. The diplomatic way is always the first option and it may work this time.

But my question is: do you still trust this guy to work on your car?

 

[tnovot]

Well here is a new developement. My father placed a call to him while I was at work today. He feels really bad about the situation. He is not totally sure it was his fault, but he thinks it could have been. Also it might have been a combination of engine wear, and the work he did. Anyways he want's to make the situation better for me, and his reputation. He has offered to rebuild my engine for no labor costs. All I would need to do is supply the parts.

So he pretty much admits he has done something, but not quite sure what it is.

Who knows.....

He THINKS the resulting problems could have been his fault? He thinks his work was a contributing factor. B.S. His work was the ONLY factor. Replacing an intake gasket (properly) would not cause lifter noise and the other work was unauthorized. Why did he even do the other work? Do you think that through poor work practices he could have caused some old gasket material and/or other crude to fall through the oil return holes in the lifter galley and that's why he tried to flush out something that wouldn't have even been there when you took it in? I'd really like to take a look at your oil pump screen.
If he really feels so bad, it's time to hold his feet to the fire. IMHO, he should supply parts and labor or stand for the total cost for another shop to repair all damages.

 

[kingman]

Your only course of action!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Small claims court is your only answer, but before you even go keep in mind that you are going to have to convince the judge that this auto shop hurt your car and have to be awarded whatever sum you come up.

The first thing that you will have to do is produce a bill that showed the work that you paid for. Then you will have to show 2 or three estimates from different auto shops showing what has to be done to correct the problem.

The first thing the judge will do is ask you to go to the back of the court or right outside the courtroom and work it out with the auto shop. This is a ploy to save court time. What the judge wants if the bill to correct the problem is $500 then he or she would expect the bill to be split.

This is the fastest and cheapest way to get satisfaction, but 90% of your case must be in the form of documents to back up what you say.

Alan

 

[vetteboy86]

Well I am going to contact the better business bureau, and see if there are any other complaints.

NO, I dont trust him to work on my car. A shop that leaves your engine dirty, and puts greasy fingerprints all over the door and hood, should not be a shop you take your car too.

What I think is that he did knock some crap down, and thought that by putting the tranny fluid in there, it would break it down, and run normal. I do have heavy bearing noise. My question is by this guy driving it around town, is this what did it in. I put about 6 miles on the car when I got it back, and 5 of it was on fresh oil. I dumped the **** he had in there, and put fresh oil in. I know I have bearing noise. When you put the car in drive, and hold the brake while revving the car to 1200 RPMS, it knocks pretty good.

If he is willing to do the work for free, I want him to pay the labor to another shop to do the work.

 

[MoeJr]

I am surprised at how we seem to have forgotten that the guy in question is human and admitted he made a mistake. We are not all perfect and there is never any guarantee that even if we did the job ourselves that we would get it right every time. Seeings as the guy is willing to work on the car for free he is obviously open to listening to his customer. I would ask him if he would just pay the labor to have the work done at another shop of your choosing. I think he would agree so as to satisfy you. Only use court as a last resort. I think you will be able to work something out to your satisfaction. Just my .02.

 

[vetteboy86]

I totally understand he is human, and we all know it is human nature to make mistakes. I am not happy however about him doing things on my car he did not have permission to do. It was not a life or death situation, he could've called.

If I were working on the car, and did something that was potentially hazordous I would think about my actions. He is supposed to be a professional, and this is his job.

I understand he wants to make things right. However you all know the saying, "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." I am sure he can work on motors, but the motors he works on run for half a season at best. It might not be his unwillingness to do a good job, but perhaps his incompetance that screws me the next time.

 

[Edmond]

Yes, he is human but he also supposed to be a professional. If the guy put 40-50 miles on my car, my belief would be that the guy took the car home and went for a joy ride with his wife. But that's just me.

 

[Vettefan87]

Yeah I realize he is human, but when I listened in on the phone conversation, to me he admitted way to fast that it could have been his fault. It is like me doing an oil change for instance, and somebody asking me if I pre oiled the filter and doubting I did. I know how to change the oil, and I have confidence that I can do the procedure right. He sounds like he wants to make good on his mistake which is good, but I really question his mechanical skills...

 

[BoostedVR-4]

Craig,
I talked with justin and don't know what all he told you so I will say it directly to you. The mechanic at my station Ron ( he is 56 or so ) has fixed many mistakes from this shop and confirmed they do ****ty work. I told justin and this is what you need to do. You must go to the shop with your father, and tell him he has a few decisions to make and no options.

1. You can come to the house during the week and hear the car, although there is no doubt the motor will need a rebuild and many new parts thanks to his incompetency.

2. You will NOT be taking the car back to him even if he is dong free labor, but you will be taking it to another shop and he will need to foot the entire bill including parts.

3. If he wants to spend thousands on a legal battle. You are prepared to make it very difficult for any business to be conducted with a nice legal battle.

Craig. Honestly take the car to ultratech racing, explain to them what happened, and have them build the engine and make this joker of a mechanic foot the bill. Lemme know what you do, but if justin has told you anything I'm pretty agaisnt shops, especially since I've lost out 6k+ thanks to shops being more knowledgable than me, and f'ing up still, even with their VAST ALL SUPERIOR knowledge.

 

[Vettefan87]

Yeah I agree, I told craig he needs to call, to get other opinions. I doubt I would have him work on the car. The labor thing I can understand, but parts... I don't think that will stick, and kind of wouldn't expect it to. I am not sure how his case would hold up in court, but that could get messy, really fast. Craig you really need to call ultratech, and even the guy that rebuilt my motor the third time. I know he's not the best person, but he is more knowledgeable then the guy that toasted your motor.

 

[Chris Kennedy]

I will send more details later today or tomorrow, but my initial thoughts are as follows:

1. Documentation of the problem is essential, but do it with the goal in mind that you are going to have to convince an uninvolved third party (judge, mediator etc.) who doesn't know either you or the mechanic that YOU are the most credible party. This means that you will have to go the extra mile, with detailed pictures, sketches etc etc. I would also be careful to document or preserve any types of evidence which might be subject to being lost (e.g., either keep all the smudges on the engine, or take detailed pictures before wiping them off.). ORGANIZE IT ALL IN A NOTEBOOK, TOO! Don't just throw things in an envelope. Parties who appear organized, with attention to detail, come across as being more believable.

2. Get an estimate of the damages. Most states have laws which direct whether certain claims go to small claims courts, or regular courts. People in these courts have different rights, restrictions.

More later,

/s/ Chris Kennedy

Following-up a bit on the above posting:

1. When you or anyone else on your behalf talks to this person be sure to be very careful what you or they say, and promptly document anything he says, especially any admissions he makes (you can do this by simply writing memos/notes to "the file" when the conversation is done. Be sure to date and sign these). Be very careful of saying seemingly innocent "pleasantries" such as "thank you very much for your understanding of the problem, but I don't agree.....". The reason is that he might say that you acknowledged he was "understanding of the problem...", which makes him sound good to a third party judging the two of you should the controversy end up in court. Also, I read about another shop which commented to you that this shop did poor work. Please contact me separately about that at: cnkennedy@earthlink.net

2. Based on what you have told us, and my own experience, I have a feeling that if this person will not give you pretty much what you want up front, that you might suggest that the two of you go to a mediation before going to court. The amount of this claim probably falls into that twilight zone between small claims court and regular court, and I think you will end-up spending more time, aggravation and (in regular court) legal fees than the recovery would be worth. Also, I have had good luck with mediation as a good mediator gets to the heart of the matter quickly, tells each side privately what they can and cannot expect if they choose the court route in an offensive or defensive capacity, and you will be able to either settle it, or see that it cannot be settled, within a day. You can then go the court route if the mediation fails. Another advantage is that this shows the guy you are serious and prepared.

Good luck,

/s/ Chris Kennedy

 

[vetteboy86]

What are usual labor costs for putting a motor together? Not to mention I will have costs in pulling the motor, not to mention all the connectors, or misc. stuff that is broke. I have one heck of an ordeal here.

How many hours labor will it take to build an engine?

 

[John Robinson]

Costs

I saw the bill this week for a mechanic to replace the engine in a car with a crate engine. The labor to remove and install plus transfer the water pump etc. was about $1100.00 In your case you can add the price of the parts for the rebuild and the machining cost. While the engine is out logic will tell you to replace things like the water pump etc. because if you don't they willl nickle dime you to death. After all they are not new. Unless you are wanting to keep the car with the numbers all matching I would suggest you get an engine from Jasper or someone that does rebuilds and nothing else. The point here is that they can come closer to matching the machiniing tolerance's of the original manufacture because they use the same kind of machinery. If the engine is hand built it is only as good as the quality of workmanship of the individual doing the work. My experience with engines rebuilt in a low volume situp is they will not have the life expectancy of an engine done in a dedicated engine rebuild facility. Good luck and let us know how it turns out

 

[volavet]

Also seems strange to me for a shopt to take a 40 mile stint with a customers vehicle. No matter what he had done, that is not normal test drive. I would take it to a prof. corvette specialist in your area and have them diagnose what exactly is wrong, then talk to him about him fooring the bill. You many not need an entire engine rebuild anyway, so until someone who knows vettes looks at it, you really dont know what damage is present for him to pay for. It could turn out to be a relatively easy fix for a few hundred vs an entire engine rebuild. He seems to be definitely at fault, but I would walk slolwly before threatening suits, etc., that is always the last resort and you will further in this fiasco with a somewhat calm/slightly aggressive approach than coming out swinging.


Just my 2 cents.

 

[vetteboy86]

I have bearing knock in the car. Either way to change them right I was told the motor has to come out, and come apart. If that is the case, I do not plan on building it back stock.

Craig