IFS on C1

[56 Texas]

I am considering disk brakes for the front on my '56, anyone have good/bad experiences or opinions on the Jim Meyer complete IFS setup vs the setup I see at Corvette Central that retains the kingpins etc.. ?? any help is appreciated.. thanks!

 

[59er]

The brake only installation (ala CC) will be much less work and expense but the jim meyer is going to really make a significant difference to handling, steering and braking.

I ran the drums (but did have the system in perfect shape) on my 59 until I sold it and never had problems stopping.

Unless you put powerassist and dual mastercylinder I doubt that you will really benefit from the discs.

Keep in mind though that there are steering union and engine mounting issues should you go with the IFS setup.

All my humble opinion of course.

Mark.

 

[56 Texas]

thanks... opinions is what I seek..

 

[Duntov-097]

I started off with just a disk conversion. Then I was going to do the Jim Meyer front end for handling and a nine inch in the rear seeing as the original rears are kinda weak.

After pricing everything it wasn't that much cheaper or easier than going for the tube frame C4 suspension conversion, especially after selling off my original frame to recoup some of my investment.

A friend has the Jim Meyer setup and it is nice, but the ride and handling are nowhere near as good as mine. JMHO

 

[Stan's Customs]

Just curious Duntov, as I am considering the Meyer set up.. You said it was no where as good as yours. What is yours? I missed that somewhere..I'm dissappointed to hear that the Meyer setup doesn't ride as good as..... I was under the impression that the ride was 100% adjustable with the upgraded coilover they offer...to the point of being able to set the ride any way you like.....Handling is another issue...even though I expected it to be much better than stock with the Meyer set up.

I have been watching e-bay etc to see what stock frames are bringing. I was dissappointed to say the least. A complete rolling '61 frame and chassis with a steering column, plus an almost complete non original 4 speed/engine drive train only brought $4500 about a month ago. I was really counting on a little more help than I think a bare frame will bring. At least according to what some other folks have told me and what I'm seeing. Did you sell yours? What did it bring if you don't mind saying?

If you did the C4 conversion what did it cost by the time you were done.

We are still in the planning stage on our '61, trying not to make any mistakes...

Thanks for any help...Stan M.

 

[Duntov-097]

Just curious Duntov, as I am considering the Meyer set up.. You said it was no where as good as yours. What is yours? I missed that somewhere..I'm dissappointed to hear that the Meyer setup doesn't ride as good as..... I was under the impression that the ride was 100% adjustable with the upgraded coilover they offer...to the point of being able to set the ride any way you like.....Handling is another issue...even though I expected it to be much better than stock with the Meyer set up.

I have been watching e-bay etc to see what stock frames are bringing. I was dissappointed to say the least. A complete rolling '61 frame and chassis with a steering column, plus an almost complete non original 4 speed/engine drive train only brought $4500 about a month ago. I was really counting on a little more help than I think a bare frame will bring. At least according to what some other folks have told me and what I'm seeing. Did you sell yours? What did it bring if you don't mind saying?




If you did the C4 conversion what did it cost by the time you were done.

We are still in the planning stage on our '61, trying not to make any mistakes...

Thanks for any help...Stan M.

Stan,

Don't get me wrong the Meyer setup is nice and the ride and handling are improved 10 times over, but the reality is you still have a solid axle out back not to mention the extra weight. You are also still using a 40 + year old frame. You still have to modify the steering column, motor mounts etc. with the JM setup. So my point is to me Its not much of a stretch to get a new frame with C4 suspension.

I'm using the SRIII Motorsports frame. I believe its still $5000 for a bare frame. If you do some searching you can find front and rear suspension for under $1000.

Sorry I'll have finish later I can't believe I actually have to work a little today:ugh

 

[Stan's Customs]

10-4 Duntov...I'm going to have to do a little too (work that is)

I'd sure appreciate a breakdown on the cost when you have the time...

What is your car...I still am unsure...if it's a C4 setup about how many man hours did itt take to set it up?

Thanks again ...Stan

 

[Duntov-097]

Continuation

Okay now that I have that work stuff out of my way back to the good stuff

I'd like to clarify that I am by no means disparaging the Jim Meyer setup. Its a great option.

My car is a 57 SRIII Motorsports tube frame C4 conversion. My car is a bare bones driver. It was built to be functional not pretty underneath. You cant see the bottom anyway. You can spend alot more than I did.

www.sriiimotorsports.com


As I was saying if you assemble it yourself

$5000 for the frame
$1000 for front and rear suspension
$1000 suspension recon.
$1000 misc.nuts, bolts, brake lines, p/s hoses, motor mounts etc.
$ 600 GMPP Accessories serp belt system.
$ 350 for steering joints, bearings for column etc.
$ 25 roll bar tubing for column.

$8975 double that at least if you want everything billet, braided, powdercoated, undercoated, overcoated, painted, clear coated, and polished.

Starting from scratch with all new parts If you have everything and the ability I think you could do the actual changeover in a weekend if you pressed, but a week is more likely. Once again your time spent can be infinitely more depending on your attention to detail.

I got $3500 for my rolling chassis. No engine, trans, motor or trans mounts, driveshaft etc. There are so many conversions going on out there that frames have really tumbled in price

If you need anymore info let me know.

Bob

 

[John Mcgraw]

I too went with the SRIII Chassis, but probably at the opposite end of the spectrum from Bob's car. My car was more a pile of parts than a real car, and I had to restore almost everything in addition to the conversion. The body had severe damge to it, and almost every nutplate and fastener was rusted to oblivion. I went with a LS1 engine and 4L60E trans, and this added some complexity to the conversion because of all the computer issues and custom fabrication. I have been working on my car for over 18 months, but will be finished in the next couple of weeks, if I can find time to work on it. I ended up with over $40K in my car, but I would do it again in a heartbeat. As a matter of fact, I am doing it all over again with a 65 convertible and a SRIII chassis! Mike Stockdale at SRIII builds one hell of a nice product.

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubgallery.asp?id_=339303

Regards, John McGraw

 

[Stan's Customs]

Thanks Bob for the information..


I haven't tried to find a C4 doner car or just suspension parts alone...I was under the impression that that stuff was considerably more expensive than $1000..... plus the initial frame expense. If C4 stuff can be had for a grand I can see where the chassis can be done for the $9000 or so you outlined. In fact maybe for a little less...seems like an ample allowance has been made for the miscellaneous and rebuild parts. I really expected the total to be closer to 12 grand. which made the Meyer setup for 4 grand including steering and linkage look pretty good for a starting place......and depending , a 4 link and 9" for a scrounger might not real expensive...depending on what you consider real expensive. Ain't nuthin' inexpensive...

Looks like I'm going to have to look into this further...just when I thought I had a plan...decisions...decisions..Ha!

 

[Stan's Customs]

Hey John..


Sorry didn't see your post right off..

Real nice set up....looks like you have spent the hours on that dude...good job! I imagine mine will be pretty plain compared to yours...but very neat.

What suspension did you use on the front...?

 

[IH2LOSE]

Boy you guys are depressing me with all of these dollar figures,I never add up what it cost to build a car its just way too depressing

 

[Stan's Customs]

.......boy it is depresing isn't it. Almost as depressing as not being able to finish the project. That's why it takes about 3 owners to finish every started Corvette rebuild..they either die or just go broke. I'm the second owner of this started project. Trying to be the last......hope to have it finished by the time I'm 60...in about 3 years......he he. Takes me about twice as long as it used to, so maybe 3 years is enough....Course I'll be doing a little fishing once in a while too...might be part of the reason it takes me longer now....hmmm

 

[John Mcgraw]

The front and rear suspension are both 1988 C4 Corvette. It is just stock components that I took apart and polished. I am a little anal retentive, and tend to get a little carried away with the detail work, but what the heck, is is only time! It is not like I am paying someone to do the work. If you shop around, you can pick up a front an rear C4 setup for $1000- $1500. This goes up dramatically if you want a Dana 44 rear, with those bringing $1500 or better alone. I went with the D36 rear on the 59, but have bought a D44 for the 65 since I am planning on way more horsepower on it than the 59.
Dont get too discouraged, I spent almost 3 years on the restoration of my 60, and I don't plan on getting in too much of a hurry on the 65 since I will have the 59 to drive in the meantime.
There is also a buddy of mine that builds chassis for C1 cars that use more of the stock parts. His name is Billy Dawson, and his website is www.corvettecorrection.com Billy builds a real nice chassis that is strong as hell and uses the stock transverse springs from the C4, and is a little easier to build. Both frames are about the same cost, and Billy will build you a rolling chassis that is ready to drop your drivetrain in and mount the body.

Larry, I am not sure I want to know exactly how much I have in the car, and I know for sure that I dont want to count up all the hours that I have in it! This little detail work at the end of the project will eat you alive!

Regards, John McGraw

 

[IH2LOSE]

This little detail work at the end of the project will eat you alive!

Regards, John McGraw


John
I said it before and I will say it again,Your attention to details is outstanding,It shows the work of a true craftsman,I am in awe of your work.Dont kid your self what you call the little detail work at the end of the project, I have seen it thru out your entire build.Remember I have studied your pictures of your suspention and can see you have cut all your bolts a couple of threads short of the nylon lock nut.

I hope to be able to see your car in person some day

 

[Stan's Customs]

Thanks again John....

The extra cost for the Dana 44 rear was probably why I was remembering the C4 suspension being kind of pricey...I was really surprised to hear that a C4 chassis could be built for the numbers in the above post. Maybe that why I thought it was higher.

I have heard of Billy Dawson ..probably because I'm in Texas too. Being sorta old school I kinda like the looks of the square frame rails..Just curious , is there a significant advantage with a tube frame over one of the Dawson type frames or is it just a matter of personal preference ?? Being similar in cost..."best" would win out over my personal preference, since both can be really sharp.

Being a little anal retentive myself, I'm particular to a fault...and stubborn when it comes to dramatic engineering changes.. My initial plan for this car was 4 link with a 9" rear to handle some horsepower. I have always been a street drag racer and always thought of the C1's as one that followed (or began) that trend, along with the GTO's, Chevelles, Mopars and others that were gaining in reputation very rapidly.

Because of my experience as a mechanic at Corvette Specialist in Odessa, Texas back in the mid Seventies...and because I came up prior to that, when there was real muscle everywhere on the street. My friends and I developed a healthy dislike for the poor performing, run of the mill, independent chassis Corvettes we had to work on daily. Old school ways I guess...like many mechanics we just didn't like the changes they had made or the way Corvettes drove (or wallowed we thought).....Most of us had always had solid axle muscle rides to that point. Seemed like back then there were the Porsche type owners and the street racers, and not much in between. The general opinion among my group was that Corvette missed both ways...didn't really handle well and was slow....not to mention expensive. There were exceptions like everything of course, and I don't mean to be bashing those that own these cars today. There are some really nice ones if you look in the right places, then and now... I'm just explaining the mindset our particular group had way back then... and what I have to deal with in my own mind today. All the while trying to formulate a car I am pleased with and don't have any "gremlins" from the past gnawing on....if you get my drift. That's tough some times......

Builders like yourself John, and many others on this forum have brought the resto/rebuilds to a new and higher standard than was ever exibited on the old factory cars...and certainly given cause to reconsider my initial plan. I applaud the professionalism and expertise you guys have lent to these cars....and of course to the companies that have risen up to provide the frame and suspension options that make it so easy to do...comparatively that is. All it takes is ca$h...and of course many, many hours of loving dedication to build something special.

Sorry for the long post...but you can see why it might be hard for a guy like me to do an independent suspension after all these years...I'm trying to get over it I just don't know if I can...sooo. Decisions ..decisions

I know you have come along way on these cars John and obviously have decided that the tube frame/ independent chassis is the best. However I was curious to know if you had ever built one with the 4 link rear and rack and pinion front, on what is basically the old stock frame 's humble beginnings?

Thank you again...for all the help..hope to continue to learn from your evaluations and first hand expertise. "Experience in the field".. my old Daddy would say...nuthin' can replace it.

Also thanks to the forum for all the help...and once agin PLEASE don't think that I am bashing any particular Corvette....It's just an old mind set gremlin I'm trying to overcome..while trying to plan a first rate project.

Best regards..Stan M.

 

[Duntov-097]

Stan,

I was street racer for years too. I grew up in Dallas and raced a 57', a 67' coupe, and an 85' in the mid 80's. The original rear in the C1 is useless for drag racing. If it hooks it blows, if it wheel hops it blows. Had to really abuse the clutch to make the rears last. The 67' just needed some massaging to work right. The 67 would hook though. I had mostly mid 1.5's 60 foots.
On the 85' I ran 15 inch wheels with PRO Tracs. Remember those ? That car would 60' in the mid 1.5's too. That car was an auto with a Dana 36. I ran that car 50 times a week between the track and the street and never broke the rear.

I agree on the wallowing handling of a stock C2-C3 they always felt that way to me too. Things changed drastically on the C4 and C5. the handling and ride are precise. No more troublesome wheel bearings, pain in the ass alignment shims, leaking calipers. The new IRS is a completely different animal.


I'm running a 550 HP 406 small block with a 5 speed with a DANA 36 and while I haven't bolted slicks on it I have been beating the snot out of it for over 2 years and it hasn't broke yet. I don't think the breakage problems in the C4 are going to occur as often with our cars. My car without me in it is under 2900 lbs on the scale at Englishtown. My friends 94 was just over 3500 lbs. I think the 36 will survive as long as there are no 6000 rpm launches on slicks.
Even if it does break you can replace the pumpkin 4 times before you reach the cost of a 44.

As far as the tube frame vs square frame goes I am not an engineer but I would think the tube frame is stronger and less likely to flex.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Whoa am I glad I got my stuff last year,Today I just received a 2005 IKERDS cataloge

Prices

front suspention dana 36 only $950.00
front suspention d44 with 13" rotors $1,400.00

Rear suspention Dana 36 $950.00
rear suspention D44 $2,500.00

I got all my stuff from them but I did not pay these prices,It seems the hot rod guys are using this stuff also.

 

[Duntov-097]

Whoa am I glad I got my stuff last year,Today I just received a 2005 IKERDS cataloge

Prices

front suspention dana 36 only $950.00
front suspention d44 with 13" rotors $1,400.00

Rear suspention Dana 36 $950.00
rear suspention D44 $2,500.00

I got all my stuff from them but I did not pay these prices,It seems the hot rod guys are using this stuff also.

Is that stuff reconditioned ? I just bought an 86' 4+3 that runs and drives for $4500 for the whole car. Its going to be the donor car for my next project. Ther are C4's around here on a fairly regular basis for $3-5K for the whole car.
I'm hoping I can sell the rest of the parts and maybe get my money back.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Is that stuff reconditioned ? I just bought an 86' 4+3 that runs and drives for $4500 for the whole car. Its going to be the donor car for my next project. Ther are C4's around here on a fairly regular basis for $3-5K for the whole car.
I'm hoping I can sell the rest of the parts and maybe get my money back.

No not recondtioned,But useable as is except for the soft brake lines and pads.

Yes it seems an entire car would be a better option