Is It The Same..???

[richscorvettes]

Mark,

I went into the barn to search for the two "Z" bars I have. I had looked at them before but wanted to refresh my memory. I have one original small block bar and a new one for a big block. As John said they are both 11" wide and I can't see any differences between them. Also, the clutch forks are the same. The only difference in setup I can see is that the clutch fork push rod is 9" long for the big block and, on the 64-66 small blocks, it was 10 & 1/2" long.

While I converted to a hydraulic setup and didn't install the mechanical linkage, I've been helping another friend with his 502 installation. He used the Scroggins-Dickey mounting plate, a stock bell housing and his stock small block "Z" bar. He said they did have to cut the bar in half, remove a small section, and reweld it because it was too wide. That's also what 67 Heaven had to do. He also said they had to do some minor grinding on the SD mounting plate. If I get any more information I will pass it along.

Rich Lagasse

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

Mark,

I went into the barn to search for the two "Z" bars I have. I had looked at them before but wanted to refresh my memory. I have one original small block bar and a new one for a big block. As John said they are both 11" wide and I can't see any differences between them. Also, the clutch forks are the same. The only difference in setup I can see is that the clutch fork push rod is 9" long for the big block and, on the 64-66 small blocks, it was 10 & 1/2" long.

While I converted to a hydraulic setup and didn't install the mechanical linkage, I've been helping another friend with his 502 installation. He used the Scroggins-Dickey mounting plate, a stock bell housing and his stock small block "Z" bar. He said they did have to cut the bar in half, remove a small section, and reweld it because it was too wide. That's also what 67 Heaven had to do. He also said they had to do some minor grinding on the SD mounting plate. If I get any more information I will pass it along.

Rich Lagasse

Thanks Rich,
I didn't holler at you before ...as I new you had the Hydro clutch set up. As far as your friend goes ...it looks like I'm in the same boat with him and BoB.


There's gotta be some diff between the two "Z" Bars....LIC Lists them seperate. Wonder what it is.... So it looks like in either case I'm gonna be hacking up a "Z" BAr.

I know the clutch rod to fork is different ..But WTF is the Diff between the two "Z" Bars????

I wish I new what that difference was between the two 'Z' Bars..

Does your friend with the 502 have his back together and running ok ...Is the Clutch working ok with the SB "Z" Bar???? ... So he must have changed to the BB Clutch Rod ...using that with the SB "Z" Bar..WIERD....
Fill me in a little more on that one...:confused

Bob is using I Assume the BB "Z"Bar that is original to his car as well as the BB Clutch Rod original to his car.....

Something aint right here........

 

[richscorvettes]

Thanks Rich,
I didn't holler at you before ...as I new you had the Hydro clutch set up. As far as your friend goes ...it looks like I'm in the same boat with him and BoB.


There's gotta be some diff between the two "Z" Bars....LIC Lists them seperate. Wonder what it is.... So it looks like in either case I'm gonna be hacking up a "Z" BAr.

I know the clutch rod to fork is different ..But WTF is the Diff between the two "Z" Bars????

I wish I new what that difference was between the two 'Z' Bars..

Does your friend with the 502 have his back together and running ok ...Is the Clutch working ok with the SB "Z" Bar???? ... So he must have changed to the BB Clutch Rod ...using that with the SB "Z" Bar..WIERD....
Fill me in a little more on that one...:confused

Bob is using I Assume the BB "Z"Bar that is original to his car as well as the BB Clutch Rod original to his car.....

Something aint right here........

Mark,

The reason I ordered the new "Z" bar was because of the reference in the Long Island catalog. Once I got it though I couldn't for the life of me tell what the difference was whether it was length, arm position or something else. All those areas look the same. Maybe they sent me the wrong one! I ended up not using it and still have it sitting in a box.

The friend with the 502 and mechanical linkage is just finishing up his car now and they've only driven it a short distance thus far. He did get back to me today and told me that it seems to work fine. He also confirmed having to narrow the cross-shaft by sectioning a piece from the middle. He also mentioned that, while he didn't have to modify the SD bracket, the pivot end next to the block was an awfully close fit. He did use the small block "Z" bar and the 9" fork rod. His is a 67 and it appears that the rod to the fork were the same length for both small and big blocks for that year. It's interesting that Scroggins-Dickey wouldn't have mentioned having to modify the bar in their instructions.

Well, as I often say: "I've already told you more than I know" so that's all the info I have. :L

Rich

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

Mark,

The reason I ordered the new "Z" bar was because of the reference in the Long Island catalog. Once I got it though I couldn't for the life of me tell what the difference was whether it was length, arm position or something else. All those areas look the same. Maybe they sent me the wrong one! I ended up not using it and still have it sitting in a box.

The friend with the 502 and mechanical linkage is just finishing up his car now and they've only driven it a short distance thus far. He did get back to me today and told me that it seems to work fine. He also confirmed having to narrow the cross-shaft by sectioning a piece from the middle. He also mentioned that, while he didn't have to modify the SD bracket, the pivot end next to the block was an awfully close fit. He did use the small block "Z" bar and the 9" fork rod. His is a 67 and it appears that the rod to the fork were the same length for both small and big blocks for that year. It's interesting that Scroggins-Dickey wouldn't have mentioned having to modify the bar in their instructions.

Well, as I often say: "I've already told you more than I know" so that's all the info I have. :L

Rich

Yeah...this is all very confuseing...to a point. The 67 used the same size clutch rod BB & SB... as per Corvette Central Catalog. 65-66 used 2 different rods 1 for BB 1 for SB. There catalog also says "Z" Bars.. 63-66 (SB) is One Type...65-66-(396-427)another and "67 ALL"(SB-BB).

I have been speaking with John Lolli about this also and he is going to do a post on the NCRS Board and see what comes back.

Mean while the only refference I have is 67 Heaven ...Yourself ...and Your Friend as far as this Clutch thing goes......

It's like being on the Moon with you three guys....Nobody else around...who has done a 502 swap...:L

 

[67HEAVEN]

It's like being on the Moon with you three guys.

One small step for Man..................

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

One small step for Man..................

And One GIANT IRON BIG BLOCK For Mankind........

 

[JL66REDCPE]

Here is the first response from the ncrs board

John -- There MUST be some differences, however minor. Otherwise there wouldn't be 3 different X-shaft GM part #'s. [3832857 '63-'66 1st design, exc. 396,427] [3872962 '65-66 396, 427, 1st design] [3888279 '66-67 2nd design].

After a quick glance at both my '65 327 and 396, it appears the differences are only in the angle of the arms welded to the tube; early 327 shafts that use the longer lever-to-clutch fork rod have a lower lever that is about 30 degrees forward of a vertical opposed upper (clutch pedal rod) lever, whereas the BB and later SB's have a lower lever that is only about 15 degrees forward. Think the later change is for clearance of the BB exhaust manifold flange, as well as other mechancial moment/force advantages.

 

[JohnZ]

FWIW, I have two of the late ('67 SB) Z-bars, both identical, and just measured the angles; with the pedal pushrod lever perfectly vertical, the lower (fork pushrod) lever is angled 23 degrees forward of vertical.

 

[00fxd]

Many guys, myself included, have done sb-bb conversions. The Z bar/clutch system is always reused with NO issues. The width is identical.