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Ken's Engine Project...

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Ken

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Of course you are correct Tom, but a person can dream, right? :L

Sometimes though, I just want to toss all form of rationale out the window and buy everything from the intake on through to the exhaust from LPE, knowing that it will be a nicely prepared package, and all of my "shopping" concerns would be taken care of at once. ;)

Actually, I'm chompin' at the bit, ready to start buyin'!! :J

_ken :w
 

Tom Bryant

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If you want to do some on site shopping At Lingenfelters hop a plane to my place and we'll cruise on down there.
 

Ken

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What do y'all think of the The New Mini-Ram III, designed for the new GM Fast-Burn heads.:

FBMiniRam.jpg


"Great combination, we recently had an article in the July issue of Car Craft about this setup. Using the new GM Fast-Burn heads, Our Mini-Ram III, ZZ-409 cam, 10.8:1 compression ratio, 52mm throttle body, 24# injectors, and our custom chip, we made 450 HP and 430 lbs/ft of torque, all on a streetable setup. And we did nothing to the heads except some milling and a better valve job. The reason we had to do a special Mini-Ram for these heads is the ports are raised .240, so a stock type intake will not work with these heads. The Mini-Ram III will match the Fast-Burn heads perfectly because we port match all Mini-Ram's before they leave."

Still shoppin'. ;)

_ken :w
 

Tom Bryant

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Wow! That would be an eye popper when you open the hood. Looks like it would fit under a stock hood too.

Tom
 

Ken

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The time has arrived when I either "walk the walk", or just "talk the talk"; my registration renewal came today and there is no requirement for me to go through smog this year, so it's "Buyin' Time Again!" :D

Decisions, decisions...

Really, I think I've got the basis down:

  • [*] Fast Burn 385

  • [*] Intake:
    TPIS "Mini Ram"
    Lingenfelter/Accell "SuperRam"

    [*] Exhaust:
    Lingenfelter
    TPIS
    (either way, they'll be coated)

    [*]Ignition:
    MSD ?
    Mallory ?
    Jacobs ?

I gotta start deciding guys, c'mon lend a hand in spending my money (on me). :L

_ken :w
 

Rowdy1

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MSD Rules

I'm not up on all the newer tech for the heads and the like but for my $$$ there's nothing like MSD ignition. Dec. 1st and 70 degrees, guess you all know what I'm doing today and tomorrow.:)
 

Tom Bryant

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Good choice on the Fast Burn 385. Can you get dyno sheets on the injections? I would try to match operating ranges of the injection to the cam you use. All around drivability would be the deciding factor. I doubt that there would be much difference in flat out performance. I would use the Lingenfelter headers with the Accel/Lingenfelter Super Ram and the TPIS if I used the Mini Ram.

As far as ignitions go all of these top brand names probably perform comparably. I would install their complete systen with coil and distributor. MSD has the reputation but that doesn't mean the others aren't as good. They just haven't been around as long.

Of course with this engine you don't have to worry about head choice. but I would go for the HOT cam and the 1.6 roller rockers.

Tom
 

Ken

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Thanks guys, I know there are a bunch more companies out there to choose from for my ignition set-up; I forgot Pertronix and Crane to name a few more. I just gotta decide. Maybe I'll just flip a coin, or put all of the names in a hat.

As for the engine, I'm still tempted to splurge and go for the entire Lingenfelter package. There is the "mystique", the "prestige", of having a Lingenfelter engine under the hood. Not to mention 440 BHP with 480 lbs-ft of torque out of the crate! Tom, they do offer it with a 58 mm TB for 14.9K, so I'd just need the 1 3/4" headers and ignition to complete the engine package. So counting labor, but not the trans, I could probably swing that for under 20-25 probably. Check this page out: http://www.lingenfelter.com/main/LPEPDF1201.pdf

Money is not really an obstacle, I'm not going to live forever and I certainly can't take it with me.

As I've said before, this is a first for me, an engine swap, so sometimes I seem to be going in circles.

_ken
 

Tom Bryant

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The complete Lingenfelter package would be a great system. You know it has been tested inside and out and will funtion perfectly. His headers will also match the heads and torque curve of the engine. It would take the guesswork out of trying to match parts, especially if you also install the ignition system that John recommends.

The 385 is the way I would have to do it since I'm not in your financial class. :D :L But if it doesn't bother you to spend the big bucks go Lingenfelter all the way. Just stop by sometime so I can experience it for myself. :D :D :D

Tom
 

69MyWay

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MY TURN!

Ken, ken, ken, ken, ken...........................

Okay man, I feel your passion here for some speed and prestige, but let's get it all straight so we know what you are doing.

1. Goal:

To have the fastest/very fast/competition/beat the NOS stang down the street/bragging rights/time for a rebuild anyway, so let's throw in some extra parts, etc. etc.

Sounds to me like you want more power that is reliable, occasional Autocross, bragging rights, and mostly getting big grins from raising the hood....am I on track?

2. Budget:

Not limitless, but plenty of green backs committed to getting the job done right

3. Plan:

Are you going to install yourself, hire someone to come over, or take it to a tuner shop to finish it up? This is a huge consideration in not only the budget, but if you are using parts and suppliers that your builder does not care for you may get into problems. Your builder really has to share your vision.

4. How are you going to measure the results: Dyno numbers, track numbers, seat of the pants punch, competition driving, giggles and grins at the local car show?

Anyway, all this factors into exactly what you are after.

A couple of things you really need to consider starts out with the computer in the car. With all the stuff you are doing you really should look into getting another computer (try Haltech) so that it can process the new information and have the flexibility to adapt to the changes. Otherwise, stick with a complete package from one supplier that goes from crank to throttle body so that you have a solid expected outcome and can get some help over the phone if it does not work right.

If I was doing this myself I would stick with putting parts together based on the research and design work of T.P.I.S. They have been the leaders for years now in this market. Lingenfelter is really in my opinion more tuned to the fellow with the new car and the latest stuff, after that they loose interest and move on. TPIS is always reinventing themselves.

The GM crate motors are great, but you are forced to put on a different intake manifold which then affects everything. Like I said, TPIS has done the most research that I have seen in this field so they can tell you what does and does not work on those crate engines. In any event you will have to park your current intake as it is no good for anything over 285 hsp or so without some kind of forced induction.

Sorry for the book, you should expect if from me by now.

Man, I can't wait to meet up with you at one of the 50th anniversary celebrations in 2003. That car is going to be wicked no matter which one of the choices you have mentioned.
 

Ken

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FINALLY I CAUGHT YOUR EYE!!

Originally posted by 69MyWay
Ken, ken, ken, ken, ken...........................
Okay man, I feel your passion here for some speed and prestige, but let's get it all straight so we know what you are doing.
1. Goal:
Sounds to me like you want more power that is reliable, occasional Autocross, bragging rights, and mostly getting big grins from raising the hood....am I on track?

;)
2. Budget:
Not limitless, but plenty of green backs committed to getting the job done right.
;)
3. Plan:
Are you going to install yourself?
:nono
Take it to a tuner shop to finish it up?
:D
4. How are you going to measure the results: Dyno numbers, track numbers, seat of the pants punch, competition driving, giggles and grins at the local car show?
:cool
A couple of things you really need to consider starts out with the computer in the car. With all the stuff you are doing you really should look into getting another computer (try Haltech) so that it can process the new information and have the flexibility to adapt to the changes. Otherwise, stick with a complete package from one supplier that goes from crank to throttle body so that you have a solid expected outcome and can get some help over the phone if it does not work right.

If I was doing this myself I would stick with putting parts together based on the research and design work of T.P.I.S. They have been the leaders for years now in this market. Lingenfelter is really in my opinion more tuned to the fellow with the new car and the latest stuff, after that they loose interest and move on. TPIS is always reinventing themselves.

The GM crate motors are great, but you are forced to put on a different intake manifold which then affects everything. Like I said, TPIS has done the most research that I have seen in this field so they can tell you what does and does not work on those crate engines. In any event you will have to park your current intake as it is no good for anything over 285 hsp or so without some kind of forced induction.

Sorry for the book, you should expect if from me by now.

Man, I can't wait to meet up with you at one of the 50th anniversary celebrations in 2003. That car is going to be wicked no matter which one of the choices you have mentioned.

:D

Ok, enough of the simple smilie responses, time for some words I guess.

First off, instead of being sorry for what you call the "book" Chris, you should know that I am very thankful for the in-depth feedback.

You are correct in assuming that the "giggle and grin" factor is high up there on the list of priorities, that's why I don't want less than 400 hp (at the rear wheels if possible). And reliabilty is key as well, a good reason for the answer to question #3 "Are you going to do it yourself..." It also, as you and others have mentioned, ensures not only a well-balanced engine match-up, but it increases the likelihood of having a reliable package as well.

I do want to take it back to the track a time or two, and maybe I'll try my hand at some autocross, but I sure would like to make at least one pass through the quarter-mile before I die.

The budget ain't "limitless", but I do have some freedom. If I pursue this avenue of build-up, I'm probably looking at 25K or so, when all is said and done. Am I too shortsighted here?

Unless I can come up with another reputabl;e Corvette shop that would be willing to work with me on this, it'll probably be Guldstrand. He hasn't a problem with Lingenfelter, but I didn't talk to him about TPIS.

The original plan called for a GM Performance "Fast Burn 385" crate, with a swap to the "HOT" cam and 1.6 rockers, but then I started thinking about the "G&G" again, and Sallee was again. Then it was TPIS, then Lingenfelter, so you see I ran the gamut from a base price of around $3999 for the base crate motor, all the way now to 13K for the LPE L98 383 (EFI) engine. Did you see those numbers! 440/480!!

Keith's got a point about the rest of the drivetrain. The transmission will be dealt with at this time as well, probably the ROD six-speed, although I have yet to decide. Will the ZF take that power? John (JHL) suggested the sequential trans from Quaiffe, but I didn't see any GM applications there. Plus those are probably way too much money for what I need. And what about my differential? It's a Dana 44 whish is not necessarily a weak link right. I just stuffed new 3.73s in there!

And you also bring up a very good point that I haven't taken into consideration; the computer. Another thing to shop for. Doesn't TPIS do things with the computers too?

Which brings me back to my choices if I was to go with them. Again I would have to start with a base crate motor and swap the cam and rockers, then use their package for the rest of the build-up. It would be half the cost, but wouldn't have the "WOW!" factor.

With any of the packages, do you have any experience with the oil pan options; what works and what doesn't? I should address that issue while we are there.

Damn, these questions just keep cropping up.
  • Distributor/ignition/wiring/plugs -- So many choices!
  • Plumbing -- Hey, the plumbing has to look good too!
  • Clutch -- Will my new McLeod unit be worth putting back in, or would it be better to just drop something like a multi-disk set-up in there now too?

I'm worn out just typing this!

_ken
 

69MyWay

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Okay Ken,

First, call TPIS or Lingenfelter and have them build a complete engine for you from top to bottom including the intake and fuel injectors. Make sure they dyno test the motor and provide you with the print. Have them prepare a chip that has been custom burned for that exact application to match your gear ratio and trans. Get the headers that best match the system, new motor mounts, etc.

Now, check your calendar and plan on driving to Florida to spend about one to two weeks. Have the engine shipped to my house. You and I will yank the stock engine and do the swap while you are here.

In exchange, just give me the old engine. We will transfer the accesories right over, tweak it in and you can head home.

Don't worry about the axles, trans, etc, because you are not racing the car. What you have will hold up just fine for the way you responded to my other questions. Plus, if you do break a stock part, replacing with another stock part is much less in the long run than carbon fiber shafts, or oversized yokes, etc. Those are only really needed for hard core racing and bragging rights. Plus, you can only really open the hood at a show, nobody is going to climb underneath to look at the u-joints.

What do you think? Sounds like a plan to me. Plus, we have a fellow right around the corner that can rear wheel dyno the car before you head home.

ROAD TRIP!
 

Ken

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Hey Chris, you have to remember that the Vette is basically in the same condition as when I returned from the road trip of this past summer. In other words, I don't think I want to sit beside the road waiting for AAA again too soon, so I don't think I'll be driving to Florida. Sounds really tempting though. ;)

If you do want the old engine, you'll have to come get it. :L

_ken :w
 

69MyWay

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Ken,

I don't think the GEO Metro can haul that engine back.

Alright, but just like Motel 6 (I call mine Motel V8), we will leave a light on for ya,


Chris
 

Ken

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New, reformulated plans, maybe...

Tell me what y'all think of this; I met a guy last year who as it turned out, went to high school with Gordon Killebrew, name of WILL BROGDON. I told Gordon, while at the Rendezvous last June that I met Will, and I guess when I told Will that I talked to Gordon, it must have spurred one of them on to get in touch because they have spoken for the first time in years. :cool

I have to ask here though, have any of you guys heard of him before, or his reputation?

I discovered in our conversations, that Will was a drag racer (gasser, I believe) and has built many an engine in his time. He especially likes to build small-block 427's.

Well, I stopped by there today and we had another chat, only this time I had the print-outs from Lingenfelter, TPIS, Edelbrock, etc. with me, so I was able to show him what they used to build up the engine. He told me that he can do it for less; it'll still be costly, there's no doubt about that, but it will definitely be less.

I left with the agreement that he'll call next week, after he gets a few other jobs out of the way, then we'll sit down and start laying a plan and adding figures. I'm thinking cool, this is much closer to home for me (he's here in the South Bay).

If I go this route, we are going to be starting with a bare block (he likes seasoned truck blocks) and adding all the right parts. He looked down the list that LPE provides for their 383, and agrees with most all of the pieces used, the differences seem to me to be very minor, like instead of 2.00"/1.56" valves, Will said he used 2.06"/1.60". :eyerole He also said he liked the Edelbrock heads Chris, along with such others as World Products and Dart. :L

Even though we'd use new parts, he mentioned that he still like to check everything before assembly.

I don't think he's just BS'n me. I've heard from one or two others that he's a good engine builder.

Whatya guys think? Should I pursue this method of building my engine, or should I stick with a crate? :confused

To tell you the truth now that I see other options (local -- Sorry Chris :L) I have, it makes it easier for me to deal with the project, and I can also probably do a lot of my own parts running here in LA and save on S&H, and it should be even easier to move it around between there and my body shop, when the engine comes out and I gotta get it around for engine bay detailing.

_ken :w
 

69MyWay

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So what intake, throttle body, computer, and fuel rails are you going to use?

Sounds good to me.

Keep us posted.
 

Ken

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Gotta work that out Chris, but I AM partial to the "Mini-Ram" and headers from TPIS, and probably, in that case, talk to them about the computer issue as well.

_ken :w

BTW, how's your shoulder?
 

Ken

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Keith, he also mentioned a piston manufacturer, the name of which escapes me at the moment, that he likes. He said they were used and preferred by the oval racers, and I immediately thought of you. ;)

He said they were light with a short skirt, but I don't recall what else he said about them except the they were located here in Gardena. Makes it easy for me to run and get 'em. :L

_ken :w
 
J

jerrys96lt4

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Ken Gm crate engine Maybe a ZZ4 . All new parts . roller rockers And under $4500.00 What about CA sniffer test?:cool :grinsanta
 
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