Lubrication problem???

[C_Dogg]

I just don't get it! As of a week ago, every time I start it up after sitting in the garage all night, it sounds like there is no oil. (Lifters sound like they are dry) I checked the oil level, it is full and clean. The oil pressure guage reads 40, and if you gun it, it goes to 50. After it runs for about a minute or so, it quiets down and acts normal. This is making me nuts!:crazy

 

[leonm47]

Well thank you my brother I've noticed the same thing on my coupe. I'm gonna take it to my mechanic tomorrow. I thought maybe it was just me but I see now it's not. Perhaps c5 specialist will give us some input.

 

[c4c5specialist]

HI there,
I would ask for mileage on both your vehicles here, please.
I am suspecting that your noises are only when starting cold, and not after driving a while.
Please list the conditions in more detail as they occur, and we can proceed with diagnosis.
I have seen high mileage cars, over 30K have some carbon buildup issues, however, your information will be critical to the resolution.
All the best, c4c5

 

[C_Dogg]

Sorry, I thought I listed the mileage, it's 16, 700 on mine. Everything is stock, and never been abused. Thanks in advance for your help.

Stan

 

[c4c5specialist]

HI Cdogg,
Ok, I would say that before you start concerning yourself with oil pressure, as you have shown, yours is fine, you think about carbon buildup.
I would suggest, that you ask your local dealer if they use BG systems products. There is an additive that I have used, 44K.
So far, in 5 cases, this has burned up internal carbon deposits, and taken out the knocking, or tapping noises that occur when cold. Add 1 can to a full tank of fuel. Burn the tank driving normally, and then reevaluate the condition.
In the maintenance area, I have used another addtive from BG, called MI3000, that I suggest every 5000 miles.
This process is NOT suggested or authorized by GM. However, so far, from my test subjects, it assists greatly in the repair of a concern, which is really caused by poor formulations, of todays fuels.
This carbon buildup issue, can sound exactly like a very noisy lifters.
Please keep us posted, and now, if we can assist you also Leon, as I feel you also have some carbon issues, c4c5

 

[leonm47]

Mr Specialist,
My coupe has 45000 miles and true this only happens at stat up with a cold engine. I do let the oil pressue build up before putting it in drive. Where is the best place to purchase the additives you suggested? I really do appreicate your time and concern. Wish you'd move to Texas preferably Grand Prairie.
Thanks again.

 

[c4c5specialist]

HI LeonM,
I dont know where you can obtain this additive in your area.
I would simply ask around the local repair shops, and see if you can find out.
BG lubrication products is the company name, so with that, if you can obtain them, great, if not, repost, and we will see what we can do.
All thebest, c4c5

 

[coolvette]

Try this link http://www.bgprod.com/locator.html
It should help you locate a distributor of the products.

Paul

 

[tshac]

Get ya some AMSOIL to be on the safe side.

That is what you need to be running.:bang

 

[wrrvette]

I'm new to the forum but from other forums that I have been to this noise is normal piston slap and is nothing to be concerned about.

 

[C_Dogg]

tshac That is what you need to be running.

Well... AMSOIL is what I use, (Since I sell the stuff)!!! :cool

 

[vettepilot]

Just a silly question here... but what kind of weather/temperature changes have occured since you last drove the car? I'm thinking that if you had a huge temperature drop, you could be experiencing an initial slow oil flow due to a viscocity change from the cold weather. Or your oil filter isn't allowing a good flow when the oil is cold. Just a thought, but maybe worth considering if no other problems are showing up. One way to check this is to bring up the eng. oil pressure display on the DIC before you start the engine, then see how long it takes to begin registering some pressure. If the oil is being picked up and flowing as it should, you should see a display of rising pressure in about 1 second.
What brand oil filter are you using?
vettepilot

 

[C_Dogg]

I'm using an ANSOIL filter. (5 micron)

 

[vettepilot]

What's the viscosity rating of your oil? How much does Amsoil sell for / qt, (retail) not your cost? I have heard that the Amsoil filter construction is one of the three best currently on the market. I guess you have to be careful with your answer because your a distributor but any comments relative to the other synthetic oils and filters would be appreciated.
I use Mobil 1 and the AC PF44 filter in the Vette, but I'm thinking of going to the Mobil 1 oil filter too. In fact I just changed the oil and filter in my Chrysler T&C and replaced that filter with the Mobil 1 and I'm using Mobil 1 10W30 in that engine as well. This is the second oil & filter change using Mobil 1 oil as opposed to petroleum based oil. On our last trip the gas mileage improved about 1 mile / gallon. The weather conditions were the same so the A/C was on and used and the driving as far as roads and speeds go was varied, similar to our daily driving, so I attribute the increased MPG to the use of the synthetic.

vettepilot

 

[Bob1320]

Don't believe any of the BS about carbon buildup, or additives for your engine noise. It is PISTON SLAP and nothing but. I am a certified GM technician and competition engine builder (30+ years). The piston to wall tolerance is excessive. GM just doesn't want to pay for their mistakes.....

 

[madand043]

Agree with BOB 1320 100%. Same problem with an 03 convertible with 6500 miles. I ran more additive crap than gasoline through it. GM doesn't have the melons to take care of their defective product. Just an interesting note: also own a 1997 with 65,000 miles that doesn't make a sound but the 03 sounds like a piece of crap. The service manager explained it as short skirt pistons.(HA HA). THE 1997 USES THE SAME PART NUMBER 88984245 PISTONS. THE SAME PISTON IS USED FOR 1997 THRU 2004 CORVETTES. SO, GM AND CORVETTE STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR DEFECTIVE PRODUCT!!!!!

 

[c4c5specialist]

Agree with BOB 1320 100%. Same problem with an 03 convertible with 6500 miles. I ran more additive crap than gasoline through it. GM doesn't have the melons to take care of their defective product. Just an interesting note: also own a 1997 with 65,000 miles that doesn't make a sound but the 03 sounds like a piece of crap. The service manager explained it as short skirt pistons.(HA HA). THE 1997 USES THE SAME PART NUMBER 88984245 PISTONS. THE SAME PISTON IS USED FOR 1997 THRU 2004 CORVETTES. SO, GM AND CORVETTE STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR DEFECTIVE PRODUCT!!!!!

HI there,
First, pistons have changed and the part number that you have listed is for the revised teflon coated skirted piston. Corvette engineering has revised them as of the 02 model year, and has issued the teflon coated pistons as the service replacement. Second, your 03 has higher ramp camshaft lobes which may account for some of the condition that you are experiencing, than your 97.
Third, the piston to bore clearancing is as follows, 97-01 pistons .0005-.0029, for uncoated skirt pistons.
02-04, coated pistons .0005-.0019.
02-04, coated pistons with coating worn off, .000-.0029.
How can these measurements contribute to pistons slap????especially since the LT1 and LT4 were .002-004.
Piston designs have changed, due to everyone wanting more horsepower, and better fuel mileage. Hence, the shortening of the pistons skirt, to reduce drag.
Everything internally in an engine must work together to give mileage and power.
I feel in this instance, that your dealership should be consulted further.
And if there were a reliability issue, we would be seeing failure of engines, which we are not.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[madand043]

You know, everyone associated with GM has all the answers on paper but haven't fixed a damn thing. I am a retired mechanic and I know what is "normal" and what isn't. THIS IS DEFINATELY A DEFECT. The same speel I just read is almost word for word what GM told me. This is a $55,000 car, not a $50.00 used car. It is not normal. I haven't heard any other $55,000 cars rapping with only 6500 miles on them. Again have the balls to admit this is a serios problem, if it isn't maybe you should spend $55,000 for one.

 

[c4c5specialist]

You know, everyone associated with GM has all the answers on paper but haven't fixed a damn thing. I am a retired mechanic and I know what is "normal" and what isn't. THIS IS DEFINATELY A DEFECT. The same speel I just read is almost word for word what GM told me. This is a $55,000 car, not a $50.00 used car. It is not normal. I haven't heard any other $55,000 cars rapping with only 6500 miles on them. Again have the balls to admit this is a serios problem, if it isn't maybe you should spend $55,000 for one.

HI there,
Your theory about what is normal and what is not makes no difference to what is actually fact. You want 350 horsepower, and 30 mpg, then you must sacrifice somewhere, to get the power and reliability that you are seeking.
I would suggest that you look up The Society of Automotive Engineers, for a full review of this engine class. They are NOT affiliated with GM, so maybe you will believe them.
If you are that sure that you are driving a defective product, maybe you should sell the car, and purchase something else.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[vettepilot]

C4C5, there are many out there that just don't get it in respect to the new generation of engines. Yes a knocking such as was described would have mean't a problem back as late as the early 90s. But the LS series engines producing the HP/TQ and fuel economy figures we see today are testiment to the evolution in engineering and design. Back "in the day" when many of us were working with the 265, 327, and 350 strange sounds in the way of knocking was something that spelled trouble was looming on the horizon. Then, during the emmissions race the normal running temps were raised significantly, thus the need to provide greater clearances allowing for greater thermo expansion. (I know I'm preaching to the choir here, sorry). I my self remember trying to explain the new found clatter that customers were experiencing that they had never heard before. It's was often frustrating as the customer was very leary of trying to accept the new engine sounds vs his/her mistrust of the dealership / corporation line.
I imagine as the engines evolve even further, the "normal sounds" will change with that evolution.. eventually we may come full circle and depart from the internal combustion engine as we think of it today, and then the technicians may be trying to explain why the engine makes no audible noise at all ... now won't that be a hoot.
Anyway, your knowledge and technical explainations are a welcome relief to the conspiracy theories. :L :L :L
vettepilot