need help setting timing

[BarryK]

ok all, I broke down and just bought my first timing light. Never used one before.
It's a Sear's Craftman # 21023 Advance Inductive Timing light with the dial on the back.

I have it hooked up properly and it's working.
According to the manual it says for initial timing leave the dial on the light at 0 than just read where the line is falling on the index scale of the balancer.
Now, this is where I ran into my first problem........... are there actual numbers on that index tab thingy? ( yes, THINGY is a new technical industry term ). I see index marks, but no numbers so have no clue what the reading is. From what I can see, I think I'm seeing the white line hit towards the top of the index plate (?) at either the 1st or 2nd mark - it's hard to see. This is the top part of the index plate towards the top or center of the motor where the plate taperes off to a point. What reading would that be if it's the 1st or 2nd mark?

Aren't there supposed to be numbers on that plate by the lines?


ok, just went back out to look again more carefully. There are numbers on the plate but I only see two of them. The very bottom mark says 0 than the middle mark says 4. I think I counted a total of 10 lines on the plate. Should I assume that each line is 1* of timing? so that if my timing light is showing a white line on either the 1st or 2nd mark that would make it either 10* or 9* of timing at idle?

 

[BarryK]

ok, a little more info if i did this right.

Based on 0 marked on the very bottom mark of the index plate over the balancer, I turned the dial on the light until the white line moved down to the o mark (last line on the index plate). When it reached 0 the timing light dial was at about 15. so if I'm understanding correctly this means I should have 15* of timing at idle with the hose disconnected from the vacuum can and plugged.
If I did this right I now need to loosen the distributor and rotate it until I get an inital timing of 10* on the light?

 

[Bob Chadwick]

Barry,

My car has a notch and some degree marks that I can't read on the index plate (Fortunately with a set back light you don't need to be able to read these marks ). There is a line on the balancer.

I think I have the same light you have. I set the timing on the back of the light to 8 degrees (the base timing on my car according to the emission plate on the firewall), unplug and cap the line to the vacuum advance and turn the distributor until the line is in the middle of the notch.

Bob

 

[ctjackster]

ok, a little more info if i did this right.

Based on 0 marked on the very bottom mark of the index plate over the balancer, I turned the dial on the light until the white line moved down to the o mark (last line on the index plate). When it reached 0 the timing light dial was at about 15. so if I'm understanding correctly this means I should have 15* of timing at idle with the hose disconnected from the vacuum can and plugged.
If I did this right I now need to loosen the distributor and rotate it until I get an inital timing of 10* on the light?

As for your effort to assess where your timing is currently at, yes, that is the method Dave was describing in the other thread, essentially using the dial back feature of the light to read timing (twisting the dial on the light until the mark on the balancer lines up with "O" on the tab). Using that same method, if you want to set your timing at 10 deg, set the dial on your light at 10, and twist the distributor until the timing mark again lines up with the "0" on the tab.

Alternatively, you can keep your dial at "0" and twist the distrib until the mark lines up with the hash mark associated with "10" on the tab, like everyday folks do.

 

[BarryK]

Barry,

My car has a notch and some degree marks that I can't read on the index plate (Fortunately with a set back light you don't need to be able to read these marks ). There is a line on the balancer.

I think I have the same light you have. I set the timing on the back of the light to 8 degrees (the base timing on my car according to the emission plate on the firewall), unplug and cap the line to the vacuum advance and turn the distributor until the line is in the middle of the notch.

Bob

so I'm looking for a line on the BALANCER, and not on the index plate that has all the lines on it?

 

[BarryK]

As for your effort to assess where your timing is currently at, yes, that is the method Dave was describing in the other thread, essentially using the dial back feature of the light to read timing (twisting the dial on the light until the mark on the balancer lines up with "O" on the tab). Using that same method, if you want to set your timing at 10 deg, set the dial on your light at 10, and twist the distributor until the timing mark again lines up with the "0" on the tab.

Alternatively, you can keep your dial at "0" and twist the distrib until the mark lines up with the hash mark associated with "10" on the tab, like everyday folks do.

cool, ok Jack

now I just hope i'm reading the correct line for 0 as what Bob just wrote seemed to indicate I was looking at the wrong place. He mentioned a line on the balancer rather than the 0 mark on the index plate.

 

[Bob Chadwick]

The big notch on the index plate is 0. The other marks represent advance and retard degrees and go back to the days before these advanced lights. By setting the timing into the light, it makes the necessary adjustment and puts the mark on the balancer at 0. If you rotate the dial on the light you will see the timing mark on the balancer move. If you go all the way to zero, it should line up with the index mark that corresponds with the timing that you had initially dialed into your light.

 

[ctjackster]

cool, ok Jack

now I just hope i'm reading the correct line for 0 as what Bob just wrote seemed to indicate I was looking at the wrong place. He mentioned a line on the balancer rather than the 0 mark on the index plate.

the line on the balancer is what you see alongside of the tab or in the neighborhood of the tab - this line appears stable because the timing light is really a strobe light that is flashing at the same point on the balancer's rotation, so it freezes the balancer line for your eye. The tab, with the "A" on it (for advance) is the scale you use to set timing - if using the dial back feature of the light, you can only concern yourself with the "0" mark.

couple of tricks - when engine is not running, wipe the tab clean, and wipe the balancer clean in the area of the mark. Some folks will dab a line of white out in the balancer groove to make it even easier to see.

 

[Mac]

Some folks will dab a line of white out in the balancer groove to make it even easier to see.

White-out works very well.

-Mac

 

[BarryK]

Bob,
yep, I see the 0 mark and what i thought was a 4 looks more like a "A" now which tallys with Jacks description. I did see the white line move as I changed the dial on the light.

Jack
Ok, so ignore the "A" mark completely and just concentrate on the "0" mark at the bottom of the index plate and with the timing light dial set at 10* I just rotate the distributor until the white line is on the "0" mark on the index plate and intial timing at idle should be correct.
I've got to leave in a little while so may or may not get that done today, i'll have to finish up tomorrow.
Any chance you have Lar's timing article? I thought I had it but I don't. if you do would you mind emailing it to me?
After I get the intial timing set than do I have to go and make other timing adjustments with the engine revved up past idle or with the hose reconnected to the can?

Sorry to ask so mant basic novice questions but when it comes to doing timing i AM a novice.

 

[Bob Chadwick]

Lars' paper.

 

[BarryK]

thanks Bob!

 

[Bob Chadwick]

My pleasure.

 

[ctjackster]

Bob,
yep, I see the 0 mark and what i thought was a 4 looks more like a "A" now which tallys with Jacks description. I did see the white line move as I changed the dial on the light.

Jack
Ok, so ignore the "A" mark completely and just concentrate on the "0" mark at the bottom of the index plate and with the timing light dial set at 10* I just rotate the distributor until the white line is on the "0" mark on the index plate and intial timing at idle should be correct.
I've got to leave in a little while so may or may not get that done today, i'll have to finish up tomorrow.
Any chance you have Lar's timing article? I thought I had it but I don't. if you do would you mind emailing it to me?
After I get the intial timing set than do I have to go and make other timing adjustments with the engine revved up past idle or with the hose reconnected to the can?

Sorry to ask so mant basic novice questions but when it comes to doing timing i AM a novice.

Barry - we are pleased to see you are tackling it yourself, the questions, we are sure, will be coming for some time.

You are setting your timing at idle. That is less than perfect for the solid lifter SHP engine like the L76, since at any sort of idle that doen't kill it, there is likely a bit of mechanical advance starting to come in, since the L76 is set up to have its mechanical advance come in quite quickly. It's "all in" by 2500 rpms with an L76, using the correct springs for the mechanical advance weights found in the distributor.

Read Lars' paper. Check your timing at 2500 rpm, using your dial back light. You might just end up confirming that you got it right with your initial set up, or you mind end up tweaking it a little. Vac can still diconnected, and line plugged - keep a golf tee in your tool box, easy to use, easy to spot.

And always remember the basic "best practices": Check and set dwell before moving on to timing. Timing follows dwell.

 

[BarryK]

Thanks Jack

reading both Lars' and JohnZ's papers

I'm not going to touch the distributor yet until I'm sure I'm reading the timing light correctly first. Going to go nice and slow to make sure I do this right.
Set dwell yesterday but will reconnect the meter up before touching the distributor to make sure it's still where we reset it at.

don't golf so don't have a Tee, but using a long screw to plug the vacuum line.

hmmmmm, better reconnect the dwell meter anyway so I can know what 2500rpm's is while working on the timing. I guess I just use the accelrator arm lever off the carb to rev it up while holding the light to check timing at 2500rpm's after adjusting initail at idle.
ok, back to reading the two guru's papers

 

[JohnZ]

The big notch on the index plate is 0. The other marks represent advance and retard degrees and go back to the days before these advanced lights. By setting the timing into the light, it makes the necessary adjustment and puts the mark on the balancer at 0. If you rotate the dial on the light you will see the timing mark on the balancer move. If you go all the way to zero, it should line up with the index mark that corresponds with the timing that you had initially dialed into your light.

The marks on the timing tab (used with a conventional non-dial-back light) each are two degrees.

 

[BarryK]

thanks John

i'm using a dial-back light so I guess it doesn't matter, I only have to worry about the "0" mark at the bottom of the index tab

 

[IH2LOSE]

reading both Lars' and JohnZ's papers

Barry where is Johns paper ?
What did I miss on this thread

 

[BarryK]

Larry
I have copies of 2 papers (articles) that John wrote for a magazine (Corvette Enthusiast I believe). One is called "Timing 101" and the other is called "Mapping Advance".
They are both very excellent articles written so easily understood that even a complete newbie and idiot like me can pretty much understand it. One article is a detailed overview of the main aspects of a cars ignition system and discusses Timing and Vacuum Advance, why they are necessary and how they work. The second article is pretty much a step by step plan of how to check and verify those functions and how to make corrections.
If you wish to see John's articles, although with your knowledge I know you can set timing in your sleep, he has generously allowed me to post them up on my website to share with anyone who may need this information.
http://69.240.140.212/page1/page65/page65.html

 

[Subfixer]

Barry, Thanks for hosting those papers on your website. Even an old hand like me learned something new. And thanks to John and Duke for keeping us all informed and educated.