need help setting timing

[BarryK]

Paul
me hosting it was the easy part. Thank John for writting such wonderful and helpful articles

BTW, I had my mechanic set my valves per John & Dukes article on valve adjustment it they really do sound good and "sing" just like the article said they would

 

[Subfixer]

I used that same article for my valve adjustment. No extra or noisy clatter. Sounds and runs beautifully.

 

[BarryK]

ok, quick question on use of the dial-back timing light........

going by Lars paper, I removed the distributor cap and rotor, removed the springs, and reinstalled the rotor and cap. Than loosened the distributor hold-down bolt so I can rotate it to adjust timing.
I se the dial on the light to 36*, revved the engine slightly and than also up to 2500-2800rpms and slightly moved the distributor to get the line on the index tab at the "0" mark.
I'm confused about one sentence he wrote in his paper. It says "With an adjustable light set at 36-degrees, align the stock timing marks with "0" when the timing is "pegged out".
Do I leave the dial on my light at the 36* the whole time or do I have to keep rotating the distributor to keep the line on the "0" mark as I roll the dial on the light back to "0" also? :confused

If I keep the timing light dial at "0" and don't move it than I've got it set and just need to reinstall the springs and take it for a test drive. If I need to move the dial on the light as I rotate the distributor than I need to grow more hands to do everything at once and redo it over.

I HOPE this question made sense!

 

[JL66REDCPE]

1) Set your dial back to 36* 2) bring engine up to 2500-2800 rpm 3) rotate distributor until line on harmonic balance aligns with the zero mark on the index tab -- then follow the rest of Lars' paper.

His comment of "pegged out" only means make sure all the advance is in -- no more left.

For the record, and I know I will probably get criticized for this, and Lars is a very knowledgeable person in this area who's papers have also helped me with problems, and this is PURELY MY OPINION, -- I would not time an engine this way. All you have done is set the max advance and when you are done, the initial advance is wherever it falls. I guess I am more of a traditionalist. I set the initial and then check max advance and if I am way out, I change the springs. Then again, I dont get into mine much -- however it sure runs nice. The way you are timing the engine is probably the way your "mechanic" did it.

 

[ctjackster]

1) Set your dial back to 36* 2) bring engine up to 2500-2800 rpm 3) rotate distributor until line on harmonic balance aligns with the zero mark on the index tab -- then follow the rest of Lars' paper.

His comment of "pegged out" only means make sure all the advance is in -- no more left.

For the record, and I know I will probably get criticized for this, and Lars is a very knowledgeable person in this area who's papers have also helped me with problems, and this is PURELY MY OPINION, -- I would not time an engine this way. All you have done is set the max advance and when you are done, the initial advance is wherever it falls. I guess I am more of a traditionalist. I set the initial and then check max advance and if I am way out, I change the springs. Then again, I dont get into mine much -- however it sure runs nice. The way you are timing the engine is probably the way your "mechanic" did it.

not sacriligious to have an opinion, and JohnZ agrees with you too (see his paper). I tend to fall somewhere in between - I set my timing first at initial/idle (but if you have a real <ahem> L76 you know that is tricky business since at idle with the vac can diconnected the car will likely stumble and die, and if you juice it up a bit you get some mech advance coming in - you can fix THAT by tying the weigths like JohnZ recommends); then I check my total timing (everything is already hooked up anyway, just spin the dial on my light and rev the engine) as a cross check, it usually shows up in spec.

Barry - I think you already set yout timing at idle, you will likely see no need to twist your dist much at all when then setting your timing per Lars' method. Do like you said - set it and then drive it (don't forget to snug that dist hold down bolt) - if it performs well, no knock, not running hot, you have done your job.

 

[BarryK]

John and Jack

First John, the big difference That I immediately see I'm doing different than my "mechanic" is that i'm NOT pluuging and leaving plugged the vacuuum line as a permantant "fix"!

After reading both Lars and JohnZ's articles I decided to at least try Lars' first for one very simple (although possible mistaken and flawed reasoning), it seemed simpler and easier. Since this is my first time even using a timing light simple and easy seemed a good way to start. I figured if the car didn't run correctly when i'm done I'd go back and follow JohnZ's article which was more detailed and overall seemed to be a more thorough method. I'm NOT trying to "Bubba" the car, just trying to get it to run correctly the easiest method possible for my first time doing it.
I do appreciate the comments though and find both of your reasonings sensible.

Jack, I didn't set timing at idle, only checked it, I had not loosened and moved the distributor at all prior to doing what I just posted a few hours ago. I DID reset the dwell previously.

I guess it's time to retighten the distrib. up , reinstall the springs and try a test drive.
............ crossing my fingers, and toes............

 

[67AirCoupe]

Well, don't leave us hanging.

How does it run?

 

[BarryK]

Sorry everyone for the long delay in getting back to you, I lost my comcast cable connection all afternoon and it just came back up.

Well, GREAT NEWS!!

After replacing the springs in the distributor I took her out for a test drive. First thing I did was just try to listen for any knocking or pinging - not easy to do over the sound of the sidepipes but heard none at all.
Drove her easy and drove her hard to see how she responded.
She pulled smoothly and STRONGLY from low all the way to redline and breaking up at high RPM's either. I slowed down and really lugged her by getting down to about 8-9mph in 4th gear, about the slowest I could before stalling, than hit the gas and she just pulled away, again no pinging. At steady cruising I felt no jerking or chugging so the advance must not be too high either.
Overall she felt great and ran great and she is idling nice too! (And no stupid "Bubba" plug in the vacuum line so I guess I fail "professional mechanics" school )

She is still running a higher engine temp than previously but not as high as the other day. She varied from a low of around 185* up to about 215*. Last year she always run a rock steady 180* no matter the conditions so now I just pulled the T-Stat housing off the replace the T-Stat and also paint the housing (starting to look a little rusty).


TO EVERYONE: THANK YOU, THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH!!!

I know this wasn't exactly rocket science but for ME it was a huge step to be able to actually work on and do a repair on my own car and there was no way i'd have the guts to have attempted it without all of you and knowing you were here to help.
I love this forum!!
I appreciate all of your help more than you can imagine

Now it's time to clean up the T-Stat housing for paint and clean up the mess I made on the garage floor with coolant - I guess I didn't drain quite enough out of the system first. :eyerole Oh well, not a big deal, I'm in too good a mood to be upset about a little liquid mess on the garage floor.

Again, THANK YOU ALL!!!

 

[67AirCoupe]

Right on Barry, we knew you could do it!

Well done!

 

[BarryK]

67Air
sure glad you knew I could do it because I had serious doubts!

 

[67AirCoupe]

It's not exactly rocket science working on these cars, it's a matter of learning the right way and then just doing it to gain experience. That's not to say that there aren't tough jobs to do but things like tuning can be done without too much trouble. Next up you will want to learn how to rebuild your carb!

 

[BarryK]

now that you mention it.............

nah, it's been rebuilt TWICE already since I bought it.

 

[JL66REDCPE]

Regarding the spilled antifreeze -- make sure that your cats and dog do not drink any -- even a small amount will kill them.

 

[BarryK]

thanks for the advice John
normally the dog and cats are not in the garage but the cats especially do try to sneak out when they can between out legs and every now and than they manage it without our seeing.

Until I get it cleaned up I'll be sure to let my wife know to keep an extra sharp eye out - those cats are sure sneaky sometimes!

 

[Dannoman]

Larry
I have copies of 2 papers (articles) that John wrote for a magazine (Corvette Enthusiast I believe). One is called "Timing 101" and the other is called "Mapping Advance".
They are both very excellent articles written so easily understood that even a complete newbie and idiot like me can pretty much understand it. One article is a detailed overview of the main aspects of a cars ignition system and discusses Timing and Vacuum Advance, why they are necessary and how they work. The second article is pretty much a step by step plan of how to check and verify those functions and how to make corrections.
If you wish to see John's articles, although with your knowledge I know you can set timing in your sleep, he has generously allowed me to post them up on my website to share with anyone who may need this information.
http://69.240.140.212/page1/page65/page65.html

Thanks for the link Barry....good stuff for sure.

Two questions:

1) Does John Z or Lars have a site that has all these articles in neatly bundled
links?

2) Does having Pertronix ignition change any of the rules/procedures when setting timing/dwell? I guess dwell would be a non issue with Pertronix...right?

TIA

Danno

 

[BarryK]

Danno
I see you don't post much but glad you're here

1) not that I know of.

2) Asking me techical questions is proof you aren't here much so you really should visit the forum more often, it's a great place!
don't think it changes the timing settings but yes, as i understand it dwell becomes a non-issue

 

[IH2LOSE]

Well Barry excellent job,How good does it feel to do it your self and no longer be BSed by the local parts changer (notice I did not say mecanic)

As they say "just jump in the waters fine"

As for the anti freeze

I keep a bin of speedy dry and NO spill goes uncleaned. I porn on the speedy dry and start scrubbing it with a brick. it just pulls it all out of the concrete or pavement.

 

[BarryK]

Larry
it actually feels great to do it myself! I came in from the test drive yesterday and I think my grin as almost as big as the day I brought the car home for the first time.
You are right, it's not proper to call most of these guys I paid to work on my car mechanics - if I could do it correctly, why in the h*ll couldn't they? Although I stretched it out and had interruptions, the actual time it took me to do it couldn't have been much longer than the time it took them to to it wrong and the "Bubba" way.
Well, no more of getting BS'ed and no more paying money after money just to still have my car wrong. From now on I'm doing it myself even if it take me five times as long to do it.

Yep, time to get some of that Speedy Dry - I wonder if kitty litter would work until I get back to the parts store..........

 

[ctjackster]

cat litter (original type, like Tidy Cat) and Speedy Dry are both basically absorbent clay, Fullers Earth type products. Yes, basic cat litter will clean up an oil or anti-freeze spill, and many use it like that - but it also costs more than Speedy Dry (marketing, fragrance additives, etc.)

 

[JL66REDCPE]

I also use kitty litter -- but dont use the "scoop" kind. Use regular plain old kitty litter.