new batt, new alt..won't start

[ZRGator]

I just finished putting in a new Optima battery and a new (rebuilt) alt.
I'm getting the same response as before...turn the key, everything goes dead, lights go out inside and batt reads dead on the batt charger.

Arrrrgh! Please give me some ideas..thanks

 

[skids]

Those symptoms will appear with a bad ground connection. That I know, but maybe it's a ignition switch problem. I would check for good ground connections first.

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

I just finished putting in a new Optima battery and a new (rebuilt) alt.
I'm getting the same response as before...turn the key, everything goes dead, lights go out inside and batt reads dead on the batt charger.

Arrrrgh! Please give me some ideas..thanks

Ground ....Ground .....Ground.. The most important thing in the electrical system.

Check and or replace the ground cable from the battery. Check the motor to frame ground braided cable. Your battery terminals should be shiny and clean.

Also goes for the Positive cable. Once you are sure those items are done then you can move onto other possibilities.

Also ....and this might not be the problem ..but I have had this happen to me.
Behind the distb ..up along the fire wall where the harness crosses over the top, there is a plug together connector. This is used for the Automatic transmission Vettes only .This is where the neuteral saftey switch on the auto trans connects. The connector should be tight and clean. If it is oxidized
you will have a problem starting.

Now ..I'm sure the rest of the guys will jump in here with some more positive info and good suggestions. We have the best tech's right here...

Hang on ...Helps a commen....

 

[ZRGator]

Thanks for all the info. Battery is recharging now. It is a 4spd, so no neutral safety switch. Someone elswhere mentioned a starter problem...gonna check that in the am. Also, I'll double check the neg cable. Battery posts are brand new and clean.

 

[photovette]

Follow the start wire up from the starter to the fire wall--could be a break--same symptoms as I had and it was the problem.

 

[IH2LOSE]

Thanks for all the info. Battery is recharging now. It is a 4spd, so no neutral safety switch. Someone elswhere mentioned a starter problem...gonna check that in the am. Also, I'll double check the neg cable. Battery posts are brand new and clean.

Qucik question

Was the battery charged when you put it in?

Follow the electric here

If the battery was hot (charged) when you installed it. the ecletric come from the battery thru the cable (witch you say is clean and good at the battery ) then down to the starter solinode. You MUST crawl under the car and check at the solinode connection. Not just that its tight but actually remove it from the starter (the wire that is)and feel the wire for a rigid portion.(normally right by the end of the terminal conection) and youll probably find it is corroded with green stuff on it.

Sounds like your have a bad conection,you try and start the car and the resistance from the dirty connections cause heat and opens the conection.

My vote is a bad positive battery cable or a bad ground both very simple fixs once you get under the car to check.

I just repaired a freind of a freinds car who had this problem and a so called corvette mecanic could not find it.

When trouble shoting a car I always start with the fundementals

1- is the battery charged
2-are the conections good-(Not just looking at them remove them and clean them
3-are the wires good (same as above but remove them and feel along them for a hard brittleness)
4 do we have a good ground

 

[IH2LOSE]

If your loosing all power it can only be the power sorse wire from the batter and where it connect or the main ground

 

[RodsnRides]

Digital Volt/Ohmeter

If you don't have a digital volt/ohmeter-get one, about $10-15. Check voltage at the battery. Should be 12.6 or above. Check voltage at starter-battery connection to ground. Should be in the same neighborhood, indicating no significant voltage drop in the cable.

Now, put the + probe on the S (switch) side of the solenoid (closest to engine block), other probe still on ground. Have someone turn the key to the start position. Again, you should get 12 volts or better, indicating the ignition switch circuit is good. If not, start working your way back to the switch.

If all checks out, your solenoid is faulty or the starter itself. Obviously, be safe, keep the car well blocked, in nuetral, etc. and hair, clothes, etc. away from moving bits. Good luck.

Rick

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

Thanks for all the info. Battery is recharging now. It is a 4spd, so no neutral safety switch. Someone elswhere mentioned a starter problem...gonna check that in the am. Also, I'll double check the neg cable. Battery posts are brand new and clean.

The nuteral safyet switch is their.... It's just not used on the manual cars. It's pluged together...Male to Female. Take a look you'll see it.

 

[JohnZ]

Sounds like a major dead short at the starter; check continuity of both battery cables (not just visual check), check cable connections, look for burned wires, shorts across solenoid terminals, etc.; having a fully-charged battery instantly go dead isn't a good sign.

 

[ZRGator]

Update!

Just crawled out from under the 67. Having a terrible short problem. Hit the key, everything goes dead..lights and battery! I received a lot of good ideas from the forum. Bought a new cable set today and am trying to install it. I now know what I want for Christmas...a lift. Crawling under the car while it's on stands on cold concrete is a pain. The cable at the starter solenoid is worse than bad. On top of that, 2 other wires were fused into the cable. Could be my problem, huh?

About those 2 other wires that were fused into the pos cable....they were a red and a black going into 2 separate black cylindrical gizmos. When they came out the red wire was purplish and the balck was orange. They joined into a flat ring fitting (like on the end of the pos cable) and this was on the starter solenoid, also. The light purple wire was fused into the pos cable and one of the balck cylinders was melted into a drip, but not exposing the wire. The light purple wire was exposed when I peeled it off of the pos cable. The end of the pos cable was split back and the wire was exposed. It was very brittle and corroded looking.
Questions...what are the 2 wires attaching to the solenoid? How do you keep the wire insulated from the exhaust manifold, which seems to be right there by the wires?
Thanks for your advice.

 

[JohnZ]

There are three wires on the big stud on the solenoid: 1) Battery cable, 2) Main hot feed/charging lead for the whole car - 14-ga. brown to a cylindrical molded-on fusible link, then 10-ga. red that goes to the horn relay screw terminal, alternator, and voltage regulator, 3) Ammeter sense wire - 20-ga. orange to a cylindrical molded-on fusible link, then 16-ga. black through the bulkhead connector to the ammeter.

The "S" terminal on the solenoid (closest to the block) is 12-ga. purple - energizes the starter. The "R" terminal on the solenoid (outboard), is an 18-ga. pink wire to the coil (+) terminal - supplies a full 12 volts to the coil only when cranking.

All big-blocks get a spring steel clip that snaps over the solenoid with a hook on it that routes and retains those wires away from exhaust manifold heat; it's shown in the A.I.M. in Section L36, Sheet A16, item #2, P/N 3856490. These are frequently thrown away when starters are replaced - you'll need one.

Time to do some wiring repairs, including replacing the fusible links - they're history. You can't get the molded cylindrical ones - they were only used on the OEM harnesses, but any good auto parts store has 14-ga. and 20-ga. fusible link wire that will do exactly the same job.

 

[RodsnRides]

Thermal wrap, too!

JohnZ is spot on here. I would add a suggestion as well. Auto parts stores have nifty spark blug boot and heat protectors about 6" long that are little "thermal boots" to protect from header heat.

They are about $20, two to a package. They have an annoying little ring at one end about the size of a dime, but you can take a small knife, create a tiny opening, then roll the ring around until you see the open end. Chuck it into a vise, open up the ring with pliers and then you can roll it out of the boot and pitch it. This allows the boot to fit over the large terminal ends. I put one boot on my + cable, and the other on the wires to the solenoid. Then, I used thermal wrap tape (again, about $20) to wrap my fusible links and a good portion of the wires from the starter up the firewall. I then used a couple of zip ties to some body heat shields (firewall/floorpan) to keep averything away from any exhaust heat. I also put a starter heat shield on it (Mr. Gasket, from Summit Racing) that protects the starter and solenoid from manifold and exhaust heat. All my heat related starter problems went away. Nothing more annoying than coming out of a rest stop and getting...click...click.

And I would also suggest getting a carpet remnant from a carpet store to lay on. Cold concrete saps the heat right out of you.

Rick

 

[ZRGator]

update...she lives!



Eureka....replaced both cables and the car started!
Thanks for all the help, I gotta get that clip to hold the wires away from the block and the manifold.
On to the next problem. Thanks again guys.

 

[IH2LOSE]

I now know what I want for Christmas...a lift


You know there is one down side to a lift I have to bring to your attention.

Most undersides of cars are left alone,just because of the diffaculty in trying to get under the car and work.Also what you dont see doesnt hurt you. But once you get a lift,the underside is very easey to get to and see and there is no way it can be left alone.

First it starts with wiping things down,next you start scrubbing things clean.That turns into you un-able to get it perfectly clean so you paint it,Now that peice is perfect and the old hardware looks bad,

Well you get the idea this happened to me when I got my lift,One of the best tools in my garage I ever got but it still does have its down side

By the way congrats on correcting the problem with your car

 

[Viet Nam Vett]

Eureka....replaced both cables and the car started!
Thanks for all the help, I gotta get that clip to hold the wires away from the block and the manifold.
On to the next problem. Thanks again guys.

Wasn't on the Puter yesterday as I was out with our Local VVA Chapter for Vet's Day doing school visits and a Memorial Service at our local Memorial.

Glad to here you found the Problem.....I did answer your P Message...today