New intake for crossfire = more HP!!!!

[nelson84]

I get way more wheel spin with this intake than the stock intake. Low end torque is increased with the renegade. The stock L83 drops off right away but this new intake pulls more like a TPI vette but keeps going to 5500 rpm. I am just running stock heads and cam so it is a good comparison to the stock intake. Some of these guys already ported their intakes and have fancy heads and cams but I found it to be a major difference.

 

[Curious George]

Unfortunately John, no. There's a really good reason why we haven't posted any dyno runs that we have done and I'm not trying to be a jerk here in any way. I'd rather not go into those reasons, but they good ones.

I can tell you that the 82 that was last tested was bone stock, had about 135K+ on the motor, the FP was set to 14psi (before and after) and the timing was at 8* (before and after). The kicker was that the motor was missing at the time a little at around 5K and we still saw a good increase in power. It was later that the miss issue was found, but we didn't retest it at that point unfortunately. You will see the max power somewhere around 4800-5100rpm range on a stock CF, but like all things, this number will vary.

We can not and will not post something like... "by changing your manifold to ours, you'll get 32+HP gain") We can't do that for many different reasons including legal. We do say that, we did "see" this much of an increase in our testing, your gain will vary. Honestly, I wish we could post the numbers and then see what people said. Thanks for asking though.

This is a classic response and probably what a lot of people on here expected. Company's have been making products for decades and publishing Dyno results with no legal action. I do not know the particulars regarding compliance or anything of that nature, but there is a way to do it and not be liable for false statements.

This thread is useless... IMO

CG

 

[catbert]

This is a classic response and probably what a lot of people on here expected. Company's have been making products for decades and publishing Dyno results with no legal action. I do not know the particulars regarding compliance or anything of that nature, but there is a way to do it and not be liable for false statements.

This thread is useless... IMO

CG

You are so right. The easiest, and most effective, defense against a claim of fraud based on phony results is an honest test and no claim that every user will have similar results.

An honest test is an honest test. The rest is bull.

 

[Buccaneer]

Say what? I seem to remember the stock setup falling flat on its face around 4000 or so.

You're right Bill, that why I said we set the FP higher, before and after. The reason a stock motor falls on its face at around 4K is because it goes too lean.

As far as the other comments go about posting results, you don't know what you are talking about, sorry. We don't make false claims and we won't post results which is our choice. When you have your own company and making performance products you can choose to post your results if you like.

 

[philbillyvette]

I'm pretty sure all folks are wanting to see is some kind of printout or hard data to support your claims. I know, I for one, if i had a crossfire engine, would not be running out and buying this intake based soley on just a couple of guys word of mouth.

As enthusiats we all know that all results are not the same for each and every application, but there has to be supporting data somewhere that can show what this intake might be capable of.

You're right Bill, that why I said we set the FP higher, before and after. The reason a stock motor falls on its face at around 4K is because it goes too lean.

As far as the other comments go about posting results, you don't know what you are talking about, sorry. We don't make false claims and we won't post results which is our choice. When you have your own company and making performance products you can choose to post your results if you like.

 

[Buccaneer]

Well, for those that rely solely on numbers and specs to base all their decisions, if you go over to Smokin'Vette, we have made a challenge with one of the members there in Utah to come down here to Phoenix and put his 84 CF with his ported stock manifold on the dyno and then swap out manifolds with the same setup and blast it and see the difference. We are ok with that and it looks like it’s going to happen in Feb. Again, we don't post results from us, if others do that's fine.

 

[WillC4]

I get way more wheel spin with this intake than the stock intake. Low end torque is increased with the renegade. The stock L83 drops off right away but this new intake pulls more like a TPI vette but keeps going to 5500 rpm. I am just running stock heads and cam so it is a good comparison to the stock intake. Some of these guys already ported their intakes and have fancy heads and cams but I found it to be a major difference.

You post left and right on how much you knotice a difference, but we are still waiting on those dyno and track sheets. Takes maybe 10-15 minutes on a dyno (multiple runs) to produce the RWHP / RWTQ numbers. And a single evening after work to go to a drag strip to produce the time slip.
Now, given the disappointing performance of the X-Fire to begin with, it actually doesnt surprise me that you do knotice a difference, 25-35 HP on top of 200 HP can feel a difference, hell maybe even i would if i drove that low output engine. But 25-35 HP on top of 300HP engine will be hardly knoticeable. But i guess you wouldnt know that since the LT1 Vette is the "crappy" motor/version of the C4.

 

[Buccaneer]

You post left and right on how much you knotice a difference, but we are still waiting on those dyno and track sheets. Takes maybe 10-15 minutes on a dyno (multiple runs) to produce the RWHP / RWTQ numbers. And a single evening after work to go to a drag strip to produce the time slip.
Now, given the disappointing performance of the X-Fire to begin with, it actually doesnt surprise me that you do knotice a difference, 25-35 HP on top of 200 HP can feel a difference, hell maybe even i would if i drove that low output engine. But 25-35 HP on top of 300HP engine will be hardly knoticeable. But i guess you wouldnt know that since the LT1 Vette is the "crappy" motor/version of the C4.

Unfortunately what you are comaparing is HP at the crank (200) vs HP at the rear wheels which are two different things. A bone stock CF in "good" running condition will be somewhere around 175HP at the rear wheels or maybe less, I'm talking strictly RWHP/Torq. So, for sake of arguement if you have 175HP at the rear wheels and now you have 210HP or more at the rear wheels, you are going to feel the increase in the SOTP, but I hate using anything to do with that type of statement, but you will feel that increase none the less.

CF motors with the right mods do perform well. Case in point...I run a 383 CF, a stock 97-00 C5 coupe is 345HP at the motor and 01-04 C5s are 350HP at the motor. I have no problem going up against those guys (the 6 speed guys have an advantage), but the look on their faces (automatics) as I go past them is priceless. Jus sayin'

 

[TedC]

I just got back from testing my 84 crossfire with a renegade intake with DCS 2" TB's. I have my timing set at 6 degrees(I will bump it up to 8) and my fuel pressure set at 15 psi.

My crossfire would run 0-60 in 6.4 seconds and now I am getting 5.6 with alot of wheel spin. I will try a 1/4 mile run with my g-tech when there is less traffic on my flat straight road.

I am very pleased with the performance of the renegade, it was worth the wait. It performs like a TPI but with a broader power range. My crossfire pulls harder now from a stop all the way up to 5500 rpm(that is where I shift my automatic manually). Before the renegade it would run out of pull at about 2800 rpm now it pulls all the way up to 3500 rpm and then pulls harder to 5500. I would bet that my top speed will be well over 150 mph now. Have not tested that yet, but it gets to 100 mph in a flash when you get on it on the highway.

I give the renegade my stamp of approval. DCS did a good job.

Here are the performance results of a mint condition stock 1984 C4 with automatic using my g-tech pro. 0-60 in 6.98 seconds and 1/4 mile in 15.58 seconds at 90.1 MPH. Right foot from brake to nailing the gas pedal. Due to the extra hot temps in the NE, we ran the test 3 times at 6 AM in the morning at 73*F. Shift points 1-2 at 5100 RPM and 2-3 at 4900 RPM. Prior track times had 1/4 mile runs averaging 15.4 seconds at 89 MPH. So the g-tech isn't too far off. A Garmin GPS showed the speedo being very accurate in the C4 at 60 and 80 MPH and g-tech reading a little high on MPH. Our results are very similar to those posted by MT and R&T:
Corvette Action Center | Model Center | C4 | 1984 | 1984 Corvette Performance Review Two observations; I will stop complaining about my ride quality otfl and I really liked the first edition of the C4 digital dash .

 

[WillC4]

Unfortunately what you are comaparing is HP at the crank (200) vs HP at the rear wheels which are two different things. A bone stock CF in "good" running condition will be somewhere around 175HP at the rear wheels or maybe less, I'm talking strictly RWHP/Torq. So, for sake of arguement if you have 175HP at the rear wheels and now you have 210HP or more at the rear wheels, you are going to feel the increase in the SOTP, but I hate using anything to do with that type of statement, but you will feel that increase none the less.

CF motors with the right mods do perform well. Case in point...I run a 383 CF, a stock 97-00 C5 coupe is 345HP at the motor and 01-04 C5s are 350HP at the motor. I have no problem going up against those guys (the 6 speed guys have an advantage), but the look on their faces (automatics) as I go past them is priceless. Jus sayin'

Not arguing with you there, i was using the 25-35 additional HP as added on a crank example, and i should have clarified that. Up here at 6000+ feet, the general rule of thumb assumption is about 20% loss up here. So, assuming that loss, a perfect running stock Xfire would have about 160 RWHP, so adding a claimed (not necessarily by your company) 45 HP at the crank, the car will get at about 200 RWHP. Now, if one is used to the original power, then of course they will notice that difference. From your sig, you have done quite a bit to your car, building it up to the brim with mods. I would actually expect you to be pulling respectable times and numbers.

Rather, i think boasting that Nelson has been spouting since long before he even got this intake requires proof. For example, i have all bolt-ons my LT1, but i havent taken it to a dyno to see what im getting up here in the "sky." However, i have taken it to the track with time slips. Not once have i guessed or boasted about what i am getting right now without proof.

 

[nelson84]

You post left and right on how much you knotice a difference, but we are still waiting on those dyno and track sheets. Takes maybe 10-15 minutes on a dyno (multiple runs) to produce the RWHP / RWTQ numbers. And a single evening after work to go to a drag strip to produce the time slip.
Now, given the disappointing performance of the X-Fire to begin with, it actually doesnt surprise me that you do knotice a difference, 25-35 HP on top of 200 HP can feel a difference, hell maybe even i would if i drove that low output engine. But 25-35 HP on top of 300HP engine will be hardly knoticeable. But i guess you wouldnt know that since the LT1 Vette is the "crappy" motor/version of the C4.

What is your point?

 

[nelson84]

Not arguing with you there, i was using the 25-35 additional HP as added on a crank example, and i should have clarified that. Up here at 6000+ feet, the general rule of thumb assumption is about 20% loss up here. So, assuming that loss, a perfect running stock Xfire would have about 160 RWHP, so adding a claimed (not necessarily by your company) 45 HP at the crank, the car will get at about 200 RWHP. Now, if one is used to the original power, then of course they will notice that difference. From your sig, you have done quite a bit to your car, building it up to the brim with mods. I would actually expect you to be pulling respectable times and numbers.

Rather, i think boasting that Nelson has been spouting since long before he even got this intake requires proof. For example, i have all bolt-ons my LT1, but i havent taken it to a dyno to see what im getting up here in the "sky." However, i have taken it to the track with time slips. Not once have i guessed or boasted about what i am getting right now without proof.

Where are these time slips you are bragging about?

By the way just drive over to a track or dyno after work?????? The nearest track is a 4 hour drive and the nearest dyno is 4 hours away also.

 

[geekinavette]

Not arguing with you there, i was using the 25-35 additional HP as added on a crank example, and i should have clarified that. Up here at 6000+ feet, the general rule of thumb assumption is about 20% loss up here. So, assuming that loss, a perfect running stock Xfire would have about 160 RWHP, so adding a claimed (not necessarily by your company) 45 HP at the crank, the car will get at about 200 RWHP. Now, if one is used to the original power, then of course they will notice that difference. From your sig, you have done quite a bit to your car, building it up to the brim with mods. I would actually expect you to be pulling respectable times and numbers.

Rather, i think boasting that Nelson has been spouting since long before he even got this intake requires proof. For example, i have all bolt-ons my LT1, but i havent taken it to a dyno to see what im getting up here in the "sky." However, i have taken it to the track with time slips. Not once have i guessed or boasted about what i am getting right now without proof.

The loss is very close to 20%...due to the 20% drop in air density. We'll measure a max MAP of about 80Kpa whereas at sea level it would be right at 100Kpa (Kilo-pascals).

My '84 in bone stock form did right at 9 seconds 0-60....yep a full two seconds due to elevation alone. Its a killer!

 

[TedC]

The loss is very close to 20%...due to the 20% drop in air density. We'll measure a max MAP of about 80Kpa whereas at sea level it would be right at 100Kpa (Kilo-pascals).

My '84 in bone stock form did right at 9 seconds 0-60....yep a full two seconds due to elevation alone. Its a killer!

You got to be kidding. I guess it impacts all engines equally. What happens to MPG, 20% less as well?

 

[geekinavette]

You got to be kidding. I guess it impacts all engines equally. What happens to MPG, 20% less as well?

Nope, I would never joke about something so devastating as a 20% loss in go-power!

I suppose the only thing that would not suffer is a variable-boost forced induction setup. Aside from that...yes everything suffers. High elevation thin air does not discriminate!

My experience has been that mileage doesn't change very much. That's not to say that some might go up, some might go down...just too many variables involved there.

 

[WillC4]

Where are these time slips you are bragging about?

By the way just drive over to a track or dyno after work?????? The nearest track is a 4 hour drive and the nearest dyno is 4 hours away also.

Haha, i mentioned i had time slips, didnt say what i ran, but for your reference, the slips are in my center console, and they have been scanned onto the home computer. Hell, ill even post them when i get there tonight. For my first time dragging at about 4,500 - 5,000 feet, I ran a 14.721 @ 97.29 MPH on a idle launch, street radials, with the 6-speed. When recalculated for the altitude, that is a 13.56 at sea level.

4 hours? So what, sounds like a good way to make sure your running properly when going to the track/dyno. Maybe not after work, then go on the weekend. And dont do the "Are you gonna pay for the trip/dyno/track" comment. If you are going to make beleivers out of us, then make beleivers out of us, show us some results. Otherwise, people such as myself will use the great freedoms our countries have given us and criticize you.

 

[nelson84]

Haha, i mentioned i had time slips, didnt say what i ran, but for your reference, the slips are in my center console, and they have been scanned onto the home computer. Hell, ill even post them when i get there tonight. For my first time dragging at about 4,500 - 5,000 feet, I ran a 14.721 @ 97.29 MPH on a idle launch, street radials, with the 6-speed. When recalculated for the altitude, that is a 13.56 at sea level.

4 hours? So what, sounds like a good way to make sure your running properly when going to the track/dyno. Maybe not after work, then go on the weekend. And dont do the "Are you gonna pay for the trip/dyno/track" comment. If you are going to make beleivers out of us, then make beleivers out of us, show us some results. Otherwise, people such as myself will use the great freedoms our countries have given us and criticize you.

Harrassing and criticising people on the forum will get you the boot. Stop before you are banned. Or keep going and I get to say

 

[vetteoz]

Stop before you are banned.

Speaking from first hand experience obviously
None of us have been banned from a Vette site unlike yourself

 

[vetteoz]

I'm pretty sure all folks are wanting to see is some kind of printout or hard data to support your claims.
As enthusiats we all know that all results are not the same for each and every application, but there has to be supporting data somewhere that can show what this intake might be capable of.

Exactly ;
Perf manufacturer's sites are full of real world examples of their product abilities; either track times or dyno runs .
All you need is the disclaimer like the hair loss products on TV stating " individual results may vary "
Relying on some guy's SOTP assessment as a marketing tool doesn't cut it especially from one with a well established lack of credibility across multiple C4 Forums

 

[WillC4]

Harrassing and criticising people on the forum will get you the boot. Stop before you are banned. Or keep going and I get to say

Oh, am I harrassing you? I doubt it, however, i dont see reason to be banned by criticism, especially since my criticism makes people think and is actually constructive. However, if the moderators request that i stop, then i will do so. Im also sure there is a nice little ignore feature on this forum like other forums out there, you could simply add me to that list and you wont see my posts ever again. Oh and posted are my time slips of my first drag racing event. At least i have more credibility then your "i feel like im getting this and that" statements.