Nitrogen Tire Inflation

[C4 Fan]

The newest ads from a local tire company in Western NY is for their nitrogen tire inflation process. They claim better performance, fuel economy and tire life. Has anyone used this process elsewhere, and can anyone think of any negatives or potential damage that could occur in using this.


http://www.dunntire.com/InflationFuelSystem/

 

[Blue92]

That is an old racers trick. We would inflate our tires with an inert gas, nitrogen, to keep the water in the air from boiling and causing the tires to over expand at racing temps. Tire temps would get well over 220. The theory is on a passenger car especially in your neck of the woods the water in the tire air won't freeze in the winter. So the tire preassure will remain more constant over a wider range temp and operating conditions. My only question is as more tire shops buy these nitrogen setups what are we to do when you loose a couple of pounds of air preassure. If you stop at the local gas station you are going to get regular old compressed air water and all. Is the tire shop going to offer free pressure checks so you don't contaminate the nitrogen?

 

[Bioscache2]

Nitrogen is indeed better as mentioned above but once you induce air into the tire you lose all that benefit of the nitrogen gas. Also one thing to point out about the website is that they say you can put air in the tire if you can't find nitrogen and then they will put nitrogen in after. Well unless they completely drain the tire and refill it with Nitrogen you once again lose the benefit of Nitrogen. So its a nice idea but until it becomes more main stream I wouldn't pay extra for it.

 

[Robert YellowVette]

Nitrogen is indeed better as mentioned above but once you induce air into the tire you lose all that benefit of the nitrogen gas. Also one thing to point out about the website is that they say you can put air in the tire if you can't find nitrogen and then they will put nitrogen in after. Well unless they completely drain the tire and refill it with Nitrogen you once again lose the benefit of Nitrogen. So its a nice idea but until it becomes more main stream I wouldn't pay extra for it.

Good points, and in filling your tires with dry nitrogen they would have to fill and allow the tire to empty and then refill several times.

Pulling a good vacuum on the tire to drain it of all air would likely collapse it and unseat the bead.

The real reason racers use dry N2 is to eliminate any water vapor from inside the tire because water vapor is a very 'un-ideal' gas and expands a lot when heated and makes tire pressures increase a lot causing undesirable handling on the track.

Remember that air is ~78% N2 already and using totally dry air with no water vapor would have similar results. You could install a dryer on the intake/outlet of your air compressor like industrial plants use where oil and suspended water in compressed air would destroy or contaminate tooling/product and cannot be tolerated.

Does anyone know if Bowling Green uses dryers on the air compressors that they use to fill the tires? I suspect all the compressed air the plant uses is dried simply because they use so many air tools during car assembly...

 

[Patrick]

I'll be honest with everyone: I've never heard of putting nitrogen in a tire. Fascinating- the benefit of doing would make sense, provided you could be certain the contents of tire didn't experience a leak/exchange with the air. Trying to do that, on open roads with old nails and screws, scrap bits of metal, even sharp rocks, any of which could puncture your tire, seems like it might be more effort than it's worth.

-Patrick

 

[jr7221]

I'd try Helium , reduces curb weight???????????

 

[Bioscache2]

Yes but Helium is so small that your tire would probably leak like a sieve

 

[LLC5]

Does anyone know if Bowling Green uses dryers on the air compressors that they use to fill the tires? I suspect all the compressed air the plant uses is dried simply because they use so many air tools during car assembly...

I would bet that Bowling Green uses the cheapest air that they can find.

 

[Ken]

That is an old racers trick.

And it's mainly for the track because of the various problems already mentioned. It doesn't sound like a feasible street plan to me.

 

[wishuwerehere82]

Yes but Helium is so small that your tire would probably leak like a sieve

Helium molecules are so small they go right through the rubber. Ever see a party balloon last more than 1 day?

 

[wishuwerehere82]

The newest ads from a local tire company in Western NY is for their nitrogen tire inflation process. They claim better performance, fuel economy and tire life. Has anyone used this process elsewhere, and can anyone think of any negatives or potential damage that could occur in using this.


http://www.dunntire.com/InflationFuelSystem/

They're the ones that messed up my tire balance.
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66345

 

[Robert YellowVette]

The newest ads from a local tire company in Western NY is for their nitrogen tire inflation process. They claim better performance, fuel economy and tire life. Has anyone used this process elsewhere, and can anyone think of any negatives or potential damage that could occur in using this.


http://www.dunntire.com/InflationFuelSystem/

The only negative would be the added cost, but they don't say what that is on their site.

Fuel economy is preserved with correct tire pressure; whether air or pure N2 is used to achieve that is irrelevant.

Better performance on the race track yes; how much time do you spend on the track vs. normal highway driving? [Assuming you do check your tires regularly and maintain correct pressures...]

Their claim that tires wear out from inside oxidation is a stretch and will therefore last much longer with N2 is moot, considering most tires wear out from road use and abuse; esp with Corvette's. In Lower Kahleefohnia, the ground level ozone acting on the tire and rubber seals on the car is a noticeable effect far greater than the oxidation occuring inside the tire casing.

 

[JRMaroon]

At the shop where I had my wheels balanced today, they gave me the sales pitch for Nitrogen. I had never heard of this before today. For $10/tire they would fill and then refill any time I needed. They also cited better performance, longer rubber life, protection for the inside of my chrome rims, blah blah blah.

I was standing at the coutner thinking about how they could fill the tire with 100% nitrogen. I also didn't think they would remove the tire and/or purge the mount each time I came in after adding air. Oh yeah, they said my tires would hold air better than they do now.

I was also thinking about how I often raise or lower the pressure in my tires in search of the ideal balance between performance and comfort.

Net Net, I passed on the $40 upcharge to fill my tires with Nitrogen.

Jeff

 

[6shark9]

They state, If you put air in a N2 filled tire it would ruin the N2 effect. At mounting (unless they flush) (they didn't when I got it) the gas in the final tire is about 1/3 air or 7% O2.

An O2 molecule is .29 nm wide, N2 is .31 nm.
0.02 nm is 0.00000008 inches. I don't buy the whole leaky O2 story. If it was the case the O2 would get out and you would have N2 left anyway, after topping off with air a couple times you would get purer. (i.e. 20% O2 -> 4% O2 -> 0.2% O2)

O2 can oxidize the rubber. Although the small amount inside cannot do much since it's used up (depleted) in the process. I'm sure the outside oxidation is much worse and will kill the tire way before inside oxidation. (ever seen a tire dry rotted inside? Most dry rotted old tires look pretty good inside.)

Plus the flourescent green caps they put on look like ......

I'd take N2, if it were free. Helium might leak more (that's a big might) but what about the gas savings with the loss of rotating mass in the wheels.
Hmmm?

Hydrogen! yeah H2. ........BOOM!...Oh, the humanity.................

 

[SPANISHVETTS]

We used Nitrogen when we raced the GT cars because it was in the rules. We also used it for the built-in air jacks and the impact wrenches for the same reason. There is no such rule for the GP2 and F3 cars so we use compressed air from an Ingerson-Rand centrifugal compressor which has built in dryers.

At the Go-Kart track we have the equivalent of a Sam’s Discount Club $199.95 on sale compressor…About once a week we bleed a few liters of water out of the tank and call it dry.

To be honest I have yet to meet anyone who could tell the difference between air (gas) from the three different sources once it was in a tire.:eyerole

 

[Ken Anderson]

To answer the question re: Bowling Green; the tires & wheels are shipped as an assembley to the plant, I think.

 

[Bioscache2]

Helium might leak more (that's a big might) but what about the gas savings with the loss of rotating mass in the wheels.
Hmmm?

Helium would leak horribly. He2 measures in the single digits of nm. That means you would need a whole new tire just to hold it.

 

[Naval Aviator]

I flew jets off aircraft carriers for 25 years. Nitrogen is always used in aircraft tires because of the dryness factor under high pressure. We used 225 PSI on the airfield and 325 PSI on the ship. Costco uses nitrogen with NO extra charge. Previous post is correct; benefit is lost as soon as you start re-filling with ambient air. If it's free, take it; if someone wants to charge you, walk away.