No start issue

[rebuild 68]

I have a '93 w/automatic, the car sat for a while I recharged the battery but still would not start just click at the solenoid. I got a new battery cleaned the cables car started once and now the solenoid won't even click. The lcd area now does not light up. I don't know if the two are related or just coincidence. I've checked all fuses and only found the AIR pump fuse in the engine compartment blown. Can anyone get me started on where to look for the problem?

 

[rebuild 68]

I was under the car cleaning the grounds and checking for loose wires(with the battery connected). While I was cleaning off the starters S terminal with a wire brush I got sparks and the solenoid started clicking, Is this a short? I attache a jumper wire from the battery + terminal to the starters S terminal and the starter began spinning. Is this VATS problem?

 

[boomdriver]

I was under the car cleaning the grounds and checking for loose wires(with the battery connected). While I was cleaning off the starters S terminal with a wire brush I got sparks and the solenoid started clicking, Is this a short? I attache a jumper wire from the battery + terminal to the starters S terminal and the starter began spinning. Is this VATS problem?

well, if it were a VATs problem there would be silence...nada...nothing happening as you turned the key. The fact that you get some clicks sometimes says low volts or amperage. Tha can come from loose cables or loose signal wires. I have also seen a battery cable rot to pieces internally where it could'nt be seen. This had the same effect of a dirty corroded battery terminal with no power getting to the solenoid. If you can Jump pos battery to the starter and get it to engage, try it with the key on to see if it fires. If it does, then I'd plan on just replacing the starter with its solenoid. they're not expensive. Clean the wires, maybe replace the battery cable. Its a gamble on pulling the starter to clean and reinstall. May help, may not.

When there is a VATS issue, nothing happens. The security lite blinks and the car won;t/can;t start.

 

[rebuild 68]

How do you exactly test for the VATS resistance at the ignition?
Also i got to the starter enable relay is there a way to test that?

 

[boomdriver]

How do you exactly test for the VATS resistance at the ignition?
Also i got to the starter enable relay is there a way to test that?

If I remember right, just jump around the 2 big yellow wires. that bypasses the relay. I'm not going to swear to that but this sounds familiar...

If you do a search here for VATS there has been the instructions posted many times for bypassing the enable relay.

Is there ANY chance that something chewed thru some wires? Cars that get stored are bait for rats & mice that love plastic insulation for snacks...You have to seal the vehicle up in a bubble to prevent this kind of damage in many areas.

Don't forget the fuasble links under the battery and the hot wire stack on the jumping post behind the battery....and go thru ALL the fuses. Not only the ones that seem like they would be for the starter...many are circuits for ignition related thinsg that can effect other things.

 

[rebuild 68]

Where the relay is located makes it very tough to see which wires go where, is there a way to test it out of the car?I've read through most of vats threads from what I understand is the restance at these wires should be within 4% of the keys but when I actually get to the car I get lost ( don't know which wires I should be measuring)as, for the mice I don't see any signs of them as the car has always been garaged Fuses have been checked, but will check the fusible links

 

[boomdriver]

Where the relay is located makes it very tough to see which wires go where, is there a way to test it out of the car?I've read through most of vats threads from what I understand is the restance at these wires should be within 4% of the keys but when I actually get to the car I get lost ( don't know which wires I should be measuring)as, for the mice I don't see any signs of them as the car has always been garaged Fuses have been checked, but will check the fusible links

Before tearing the dash apart....
see if the security lite is blinking when the key is turned. If it DOES flash...its VATS. Usually if the enable relay fails or whatever, the system still indicates a security issue.

No blinking lite...move on.
I know of no way to test the enable relay. I've always just jumped around it or tested for power out of it to the starter.

You have to take the dash pad off and the bread box to get good access,.

 

[rebuild 68]

The only problem with that is the instrument panel isn't lighting up either but the DIC, radio and lights work.So, I don't know if the instrument panel and the no start are related.

 

[boomdriver]

The only problem with that is the instrument panel isn't lighting up either but the DIC, radio and lights work.So, I don't know if the instrument panel and the no start are related.

well, in reality there is no such thing as a coincidence...

working with that philosophy, I'd say that there are broken grounds in the harness going to the G104 group by the oil filter, OR the ign switch box has some loose or damaged wires. Thats hard to get to....but if you're patient you can get to it and even operate the rod that actuates the ign from the key switch. Pull the lower dash panel and see what you can see...turn the key on and wiggle things and see if you can get something to lite up..but DO get under it and look at the 5 most important grounds...on a bolt near the oil filter.

 

[rebuild 68]

I was at the g104 ground, everything looked ok but I'm going to take a second look. Shouldn't there be a ground braided strap exactly opposite of g104 on the passenger side?

 

[boomdriver]

I was at the g104 ground, everything looked ok but I'm going to take a second look. Shouldn't there be a ground braided strap exactly opposite of g104 on the passenger side?

There is a small braid in the same area as the 104 bundle. Its nearby,....somewhere.

I was'nt satisfied with some issues I was having and added a battery cable/ground directly from battery to the frame. Used to have another that ran to the engine ex manifold bolt. That cable to the eng did'nt make any difference in anything.I assumed that the other grounds were sufficient.

Something I've preached about over and over is wire rot in the C4 harness particularly in the section of harness where the G104 grounds enter. The splices are absolutely amaturish with only black tape to secure them inside the plastic sleeve. All the inj and eng sensor wires enter the same area. The harness gets wet, or chemicals/degreasers enter the sleeve and eat away at the insulation and eventually the thin copper strands. Things start to go south the first time the harness is disturbed.

It's hell to get to....I've had my valve covers off, wiper motor and dist taken out and still could only see it but not actually work on this section...I DID sucessfully solder in a new left bank inj harness after my original rotted to the point of having inj signals grounding and cross signaling...But the grounds were still acting up along with the oil press sensor. Finally got it all working right but I know that harness section is bad and will come back to haunt me again. I've heard of others having similar issues with mystery misfiring, intermittant normal performance then not. When/If the engine ever comes out again that harness will be repaired or replaced before the eng goes back. That harness integrity is something that you may want to look at. Simple wiggling around with someone watching the dash may yeild some results..

 

[rebuild 68]

I tried to take the g104 grounds off to clean the up, but can't seem to get a tool in there to get that nut loose. I also pulled the starter enable relay and tested that seemed ok, even swapped it with the relay next to it but still no start. I measured the resistance on the key and at the wires under the dash, 3.74 on the key and 3.72 on the wires. Not really sure where to go now.