No start problem

[c4ever]

I thought I had this licked last week but got the phone call yesterday from the wife. 82 needs a jump.ad

It goes like this. Car will crank fine for maybe a couple of days or it may crank , run it for a minute, shut her down, go to re-start. no crank. Starter does not make a peep but battery meters 12.53 volts. Put a jump on her, starts right up. Battery seems to be getting good charge 14.2 when metered running. Battery is new(3 months old AC Delco), starter is new, all connections and grounds are good. I thought possibly a neutral safety switch or purple ignition wire but if these were the case I wouldn't think a jump would do any good. I've come to the conclusion it's just a bad battery. Can a battery meter 12.5 volts but not have the ability to engage the starter? In addition, all lights, dash lights are strong as if the battery was fine but no crank. Put a jump on her starts right upad It's really starting to get to me. BG is days away. I don't need this now
So can I have a bad cell which seems to have proper voltage but no cranking amps?
Sorry if this is long but I tried to explain to the best of my ability.
Thanks guys and girls

Carlo ;help ;help ;help

 

[Yoda]

Carlo,

This sure sounds like a bad connection somewhere. If you haven't done so already, I would suggest cleaning EVERY connection from the battery to the Starter, grounds and hot wires. Us a steel brush or some emery cloth, and maybe a little conductive grease when making the connections again.

When you try to start and nothing happens does the voltage gauge dip? Turn the head lights on the next time and see if they dim when you try to start the car.

Man I feel you pain here, the clock is running.. oh another thing would be to try to short across the starter when this happens, see if starts then.

Good Luck..

BudD

 

[c4ever]

Bud,
Voltage guage does dip when engaging , headlights stay strong when engaging, shorting across solonoid will engage starter. I'm going nuts because a jump and she starts right up. A jump wouldn't correct a connection(wiring) problem and I am reading a good charge back to the battery when running.

I hate when this happens. There really aren't many connections here to deal with and I did them all last weekend. Cleaned them up good.
Woa is me.
Thanks for the input Bud



Carlo

 

[Yoda]

Since the lights don't dim, it would indicate to me that there isn't a big current draw and the battery sounds good. In my experience this leads me to one of two things..
Either the ingnition switch doesn't make good contact when trying to start or the selenoid on the starter isn't engaging. I would suggest Starter Heat Soak, but I believe you've been down that road already.

There is a thread around here somewhere about clipping the spring in the selenoid as a GM fix. I'll see if I can find it

Hang in there Carlo..

BudD

 

[Bob Chadwick]

77-4Speed's post.

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14828

 

[Yoda]

Way to go "Bob"

Here is another item that is a fix too

Most older Chevy's have this problem. Once the starter and solenoid get older, they do not tollerate the heat well. The heat shield will definately help. But there is another way to rectify this problem and one I use on every older Chevy I own. You can get a remote solenoid from Summit. It does not take the place of your current solenoid, but is in addition to it. I installed mine high on the firewall. It has additional post for accessories. The best part, other than the starting issue, is that it is much easier (read handier) to attach a remote starter when your working on your Vette. Check these out, they are well worth the $25 or so they cost.

BudD

 

[c4ever]

Thanks guys,
I don't believe the problem is in the starter(new AC Delco) and heat soak is not at issue. The purple ignition wire Bud mentions is on my list of suspects but why would a jump start work. If ignition wire is faulty it wouldn't start regardless of jumping it. This is why I'm confused (and I confuse easily) :confused :confused
Is there a test point aside from the solonoid where I can get to meter this purple ignition wire. I think it may run through the harness through the firewall, not sure
I have picked up a replacement battery at no charge. Bennet Auto Parts takes care of me, a great bunch of guys and AC Delco parts.
Something tells me I still need help

Carlo;help ;help

 

[vigman]

Going out on a limb here

Lets assume you have a NEW starter & solenoid......

And the starter grounds are clean & tight.


In order to PROVE the theory..you must first run a new line to the solenoid post into the engine compartment so you can hook up a test light to the end of that wire.

No drive the car around normally.. see if you can get it to fail.....

If the light doesn't light ( when it wont crank )

It's maybe the bulkhead connector, neutral switch or ignition switch... something UP stream.
AND if you were a really clever cat and ran a 18 gauge wire.... you could use that wire to crank the car ( provided you found a +12 source )

If the light DOES light (But no crank)
then it's the solenoid.. or the mechanical connection at the solenoid.


When you have the NO crank condition.. do you get a CLICK?

Vig!

 

[vigman]

Read page 2 of this post!

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/for...=7659&perpage=15&highlight=Start&pagenumber=2

Open Hood,
Get to passenger side
Look at firewall
Find Silver metal(relay) can mounted HIGH on firewall between AC box & distributor
Look down a bit
And there it is

Large wires 6 per connector
White shell(male) pluged into Black(female)
Inspect this CLOSELY

I'll bet you will find some extra crispy wiring!

Vig!

 

[c4ever]

Vig,
I'm hoping some of your genius can rub off on me. There is no click when this condition occurs. So you suggest a new lead from the solonoid post to exactly where? I assume I can meter the bulkhead connector from the ignition swith to the connector? This way I'll at least know it's after the ignition switch right.
One question. Why would a jump start work. Wouldn't a lack of 7vt at the solonoid prevent the car from starting jump or no jump?

Thanks for the input Vig. I'll be under her tonight.

Carlo

 

[vigman]

The new lead....

If it was me..

I would run an 18 ( orange ) gauge wire from the solenoid stud... thru the firewall up under the dash.... kinda dress it off to the side .... then to be slick.. I would get an adaptor coming from the cig lighter with a HEAVY DUTY normally open push switch to act as a remote start....

That will give you the following

a) A place to test to see when you turn the key IF power is actually getting to the solenoid pin.

b) A quick way to bypass the factory wiring and crank her up.

I'll bet the ORANGE( new ) wire will have no juice on it whan the car does it's no start thing.


Read the post re the location of the dreaded 6 pin connection point... more often that not... there has been problems there!

Lemme know

Vig!

 

[c4ever]

I hear ya Vig. I'm goin in tonight and I ain't quitin' till this is a memory.
I'll keep you posted.
Thanks to you and all member input.

Carlo

 

[vigman]

You GO Boy!

Remember..it aint over till it's over!


Vig!

 

[c4ever]

Thanks to Vig,Bud,Bob:dance

As expected when I put the new battery in it started every time. I rechecked all starter connections. Checked out good.
Went to the dreaded 6 pin connector. No wire damage but connector definitely needs an R/R. I disconnected and cleaned it up just for laughs but I'm not about to let this happen again. I took Vig's advice and ran a bypass heavy duty starter switch to the console. It reminds me of my old cars, manual choke, you guys remember I did tap the lighter circuit as you suggested Vig. Remote starter works and now I'm kinda hoping the no start condition repeats itself but we all know it will probably never happen again now that I'm ready for it

Thank you my friends for all your quick responses.
See you in BG

Carlo

 

[Yoda]

Carlo,

You be the #1 Bulldog.. You da Man! :dance
Looking forward to meeting ya at SharkFest :cool

BudD

 

[c4ever]

Likewise Yoda. It's my first time but won't be my last.

 

[vigman]

Of course......

According to Murphys law.....

Now that you have done all that.....

You will NEVER use the bypass.



Think of it as a talisman against breakdown!


Vig!

 

[c4ever]

Hey Vig,
Guess what? You're right . Did it again, but this time I had a BIG SMILE on my face because I had the secreat weapon. Yes The Button. I felt so good about it I did an oil change for the BG trip and actually replaced the shift indicator. I'd like to meet the guy who designed that.

Thanks for the suggestion that saved my:booty Vig.

Carlo

Oh, by the way, when I got home it started right up. As we say in NY: Go Figure!

Have a great weekend guys

 

[vigman]

AH HAH!

Tada... well Murphy fell asleep at the switch.

So it worked!!!!! Cool... that PROVES you have something BOGUS up stream.

So NOW it's limited to the interlock switch ( which you replaced)

Or the actual Key switch
Or the dreaded 6 pinner

So now you have a SECRET WEAPON!

LOL

Vig!

 

[barrier5]

If I were you,just for my own piece of mind,I'd do a hydrometer check on the bat. to see if all the cells are up to snuff.