Help! No-start. VATS Trouble? Check me on this

[starbuck]

More possible vats trouble (I assume) on a 1995.

turn the ignition key. dash displays light up, no sound from starter or solenoid. Battery charged.

I have two sets of ignition keys. one set has hardly any wear.

I have done the following:

used electrical contact cleaner to clean both key pellets and blew them dry with compressed air.

sprayed contact cleaner into ignition switch and blew dry with compressed air (nothing too violent but firm air pressure)

disconnected battery for at least 12 hours and reconnected. Battery charged.

Cycled through the driver's door outside lock (if there is some magic procedure for this let me know)

Tried turning the ignition with the newer key, no joy.
Tried turning the ignition with the older key, no joy.

"SECURITY" Light on left of dash stays illuminated when key is on. This is a problem IIRC

The car has been sitting for the better part of 15 months with just the occasional start up every 2-4 months. until now, no problem restarting. I've tried to keep up the charge on the battery and fresh gas in it but the last 6 months have seen be get less attentive to the upkeep.

The interior is quite mildew-y and I was hoping it was crud in the ignition that could be cleaned out but...no joy.

It is parked on a mulch turn-around so getting under it is tough and since my driveway is on a very steep hill, to move it onto the pavement will require a towing or several very strong men (I have access to neither)

So I'd like to eliminate as much vats stuff as I can before the tough stuff under the car.

My next steps are?

Thanks

 

[John Robinson]

Recheck the battery connections for good contact. I have had bad battery terminal connections that give just enough power to light up the dash but not turn the car over. If it still does not start clean all the ground wire connections.

 

[starbuck]

Recheck the battery connections for good contact. I have had bad battery terminal connections that give just enough power to light up the dash but not turn the car over. If it still does not start clean all the ground wire connections.

View attachment 8476

Thank you John...that's a lot of grounds

Is the Security light staying on and not flashing indicate a problem.
The Haynes manual is rather vague on all this

Thanks

 

[John Robinson]

Here is some information from my owners manual that might be helpful to you. Since you mentioned mold inside the car from storage pay attention to the highlighted note about the fuses. Check all of them for continuity and power.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Thank you John...that's a lot of grounds

Is the Security light staying on and not flashing indicate a problem.
The Haynes manual is rather vague on all this

Thanks

First, convert the Haynes "manual" to a cat box liner. Haynes books contain little useful information on diagnosing the C4's electronics and, of the information that is there, too much of it is inaccurate.

You've gone though the "cleaning the key" exercise. If you've checked fuses, as John suggests, and you haven't solved the problem, if you are gong to continue trying to fix it DIY, then you need the diagnostic info in the Factory Service Manual. You can get an FSM for a 95 from CAC sponsor Zip Products.

 

[K & B Special Products]

My vote is a bad BCM/CCM due to your battery charging. The battery must be disconnected when charging a 90-96 Corvette, or for that matter anything newer. If you are not extremely handy, then replacing this module is better left to a pro. Good luck!

 

[starbuck]

My vote is a bad BCM/CCM due to your battery charging. The battery must be disconnected when charging a 90-96 Corvette, or for that matter anything newer. If you are not extremely handy, then replacing this module is better left to a pro. Good luck!

Beside dealership, is there any way to test this module?

 

[boomdriver]

There is no reason to believe that you damaged the engine control computer by doing anything that you listed. Sure, its reccomended to d/c the battery to charge it but its not crutial....otherwise we'd see dead cars all over the place from being jumped, or charged and frying the ecms. This is usually cause by the spike from jumping or rapid charging a battery that is 100% discharged.

Your particular problem is less exciting...
All you need is a FSM as Hib suggest and thats 90% of the solution. That will teach you how to do the flow chart test for any no start, no crank condition and it will direct you to the problem, not guess at it.
As fafr as VATS goes....VATS gets blamed for everything from the price of tuna fish to the glare on the windshield at sunrise. When ANY system failure or fault causes a no crank condition, VATS gets blamed because thats what VATS is designed to do...prevent your car from being started and driven off without you. Its most likely NOT the VATS ignition switch, so ignore the urge to do a bubba bypass there. Your new FSM will describe how to test and jumper the starter enable relay (the most likely suspect in the VATS) to eliminate the relay or to prove that it IS the source of trouble.
If you have enough moisture inside your cabin to grow a mildew oder then you have a hundred sensitive electrical computer connections and relays that HATE corrosion and oxidation.,...which is why they are inside the cabin and not under the hood. THAT is probably the true source of the problem...dirty, corroded connections in a relay or a plug.
Locate and clean the G104-5 ground collection on or near the oil filter. Thats the most important of them all. Look for approx 5 wires on a single bolt.

BTW
The suggestion that you use your valuable haynes manual as a liner for the cat box was inappropiate and uncalled for. No cat that I know would waste his/her time squating over one of those useless paper back books. The proper place for a Haynes or Chitlins manual is to use one page at a time to lite the fireplace. The haynes should get you through a more typical winter..while chitlins may not,. less pages and their ink does not burn as well..

 

[TedC]

#1: All you need is a FSM as Hib suggest and thats 90% of the solution. #2: Your new FSM will describe how to test and jumper the starter enable relay (the most likely suspect in the VATS) to eliminate the relay or to prove that it IS the source of trouble.

#1: Suggested correction. All you need is the FSM AND Hib and thats 90% of the solution!!! #2: Twice now, I've isolated this relay as the the source of no starts on two different C4s. It is a real pain to get to.

 

[John Robinson]

I still say the simpliest way to check all that out is to use a test light to see if he is getting power through the fuse for all the circuits. Key on and probe each side of the fuse to see if the test light comes on. No light check for bad fuse good fuse. Look at fuse cover and see what circuit is not getting power. And since he says the inside of the car is moldy He may have to pull the fuses and clean there tabs to besure they are not corroded and stopping the power from getting to were it belongs. I think I am missing something about the battery being charged. The way I read it he put the battery back in after it was charged. Could you clear that up for me.

 

[K & B Special Products]

Beside dealership, is there any way to test this module?

If no crank & no fuel pump(s) then you're 99% sure. Bypass starter enable relay to test starter function. If it cranks but still no start, then you're 99.9% sure.

 

[froggy47]

lurk

 

[89vetter]

Any solution? Are grounding points the same on an '89?

Thanks

 

[starbuck]

I still say the simpliest way to check all that out is to use a test light to see if he is getting power through the fuse for all the circuits. Key on and probe each side of the fuse to see if the test light comes on. No light check for bad fuse good fuse. Look at fuse cover and see what circuit is not getting power. And since he says the inside of the car is moldy He may have to pull the fuses and clean there tabs to be sure they are not corroded and stopping the power from getting to were it belongs. I think I am missing something about the battery being charged. The way I read it he put the battery back in after it was charged. Could you clear that up for me.

The battery was connected while charging.


I ordered a FSM---$90.00 on ebay. I'm sure it will probably pay for itself very quickly

Going to start checking each fuse, holder and ground when the FSM gets here ..that'll be fun.

Update: still no activity by the starter but i can hear the fuel pump energize when the key is turned on.
Have to get the car off the mulch and up the driveway before I can get up under it to check the starter and solenoid.

Now I have to find the starter enable relay

 

[89vetter]

You can also check your safety neutral switch if it's an automatic, the manual transmissions have one too. Check voltage at the starter.

 

[89vetter]

Check this thread out it might help.


89 No start issue - Corvette Forum

 

[boomdriver]

The battery was connected while charging.


I ordered a FSM---$90.00 on ebay. I'm sure it will probably pay for itself very quickly

Going to start checking each fuse, holder and ground when the FSM gets here ..that'll be fun.

Update: still no activity by the starter but i can hear the fuel pump energize when the key is turned on.
Have to get the car off the mulch and up the driveway before I can get up under it to check the starter and solenoid.

Now I have to find the starter enable relay

Then that proves that the security system is not totally at fault. Worst case the starter enable relay is sticking. Thats easy to jump and test...when you find it. If you feel adventerous, pull the stuff out of the center console display...and see if you can reach around under the bread box. Look for a 2" relay with 2 heavy gauge yellow wires...jump those. It MIGHT even be under the center display...they seem to move around. Some under the bread box others directly behind the center display.

Like 'vetter says, check the shifter safety switch and/or clutch switch. Good for causing the same issues. Next would be poor contacts at starter solenoid, then you can work you way toward the ignition switch. The real switch mounted under a steel plate on the lower column. The book will give you the correct things in the correct order to test and get and develope conclusions based on test results..not guess work. Thats too tiring. Hopefully your books are older editions that have the electrical in color.


It would be best to wait and study the book first..

 

[TedC]

Turns key to start, pump runs, no crank and security light stays on. Tells me the pass key decorder (VATS) is not being enabled. Power related? Check fuses, specifically the theft and pass key fuses. Key? Are you using a key that worked before? Measure resistance on the key resistor and make sure it is not an open circuit. Spray contact cleaner on the key resistor contacts and insert several times in cylinder. Not saying this is your issue, but twice (two different C4s) now, I had to gain acces to the starter enable relay only to verify that the pass key decoder was working properly (grounding relay when enabled), but the relay would not engage, so no voltage was being sent to tranny switch. Once I jumpered the relay, engine cranked and started. The key point is that the connections at this relay tell you what is working and what is not. If you need a relay, I was able to order one from a Chevy dealer (arrived in 1 day). With the security light staying on and a FSM, you will be in much better shape to isolate this. Keep us posted.

 

[John Robinson]

No Start

There are two Threads that are interconnected on here. Could an administrator perform a marriage ceramony of the common threads by starbuck. It would make it easier for everyone to follow what has been done and what has been suggested.

 

[K & B Special Products]

Cranking has nothing to do with either ECM or the CCM
VATS disables fuel injectors ( and starter )
Fuel pump has nothing to do with VATS or CCM .ECM runs pump and pump even has it's own switch to run it should ECM control of pump fail

You are totally incorrect.