Oh where oh where is my oil leak?

[69MyWay]

This was a good pic too, showing the whole assembly before I just now yanked it apart.

 

[rpounds]

Chris,

I will be very interested (as I'm sure will others) when you find this leak. It is really hard for me to believe that oil is travelling forward from the rear of the engine. As you mentioned, as you are driving the oil is pushed back. That makes perfect sense to me considering the air flow through the radiator and back. Seems like the leak really should be either from above or forward of anyplace that the oil shows up. Hmmm . . . don't cha hate these elusive little nagging, PITA, yank all your hair out, kick over the trash can, jack it up, take it apart, scratch your butt, throw a wrench, holler at the neighbor problems?

Good luck man . . .

Ron

 

[BigRed]

Chris, just a thought but your oil pan is a welded assembly. Could a weld have a crack, pin hole, perosity, or undercut in it? All of the above would only leak under pressure.

WOW Being a PIPEFITTER Came in useful for once! WOOHOO ROFL

Keep us posted Im learning alot right now.

In this case ( On pipe ) we would either have the weld X-rayed or pressured up indepentantly from the main line. Using a really suddy soap would be great as you'll see the bubbles.

Problem is you either have to X-ray the weld (Bucks) or make a flat plate and bolt to pan to, pressuring it up from the drain plug.

Of course the above is incase you CAN'T see the hole,crack or whatever.

 

[69vettester]

Hmmm..Real peculiar that you cant find that leak Chris, getting it all opened up like that WOW???

I would think that pan gasket would leak at the front neck if it wasnt mated real well between the Milodon and The Block for some reason, In the radius of the front neck is where the mating problem would be.?? You had said that the 454 didnt change pan configuration at anytime, but I wonder if Milodon Pan has problems sealing with that Fel Pro One piece..Im betting its either the new tech neoprene pan gasket isnt thick enough at the neck and didnt get compressed when you snugged all the bolts. Then it blew under pressure where it was weak??
OR
Like topless said, the intake valley seal, front??

Hope you find it soon, Were holding out breaths here Man :bang

Tom

 

[barrier5]

I agree thats its probably coming from the front of the motor. How about the front Main sea,or timing cover? Plus if you haven't already,pull the fuel pump plate and replace the gasket and add a dab of silicone ( is it a chrome plate ? ),also pop the plug under it and get some teflon sealant for the threads. One last thing, take some chalk and and draw several vert. lines down the side of the block and pan that way you'll be able to find the area that the oil is starting from.

 

[maxrevs85]

Chris , I see it was mensioned about the pan having a leak in the weld somewhere. It is a very probable possiblitiy .I was told by my engine builder to do a leak check on my TPIS pan. He has found a few that did ,even on the best of them.
Just a thought .

 

[Tom Bryant]

Chris,

Put a straight edge on that pan rail when you get it off to check for dips. Since oil in the pan isn't pressurized I would think that a thinner fluid would easily flow through a crack in a weld where hot oil could get through. Try enamel reducer or laquer thinner in the pan to see if anything seeps around the weld areas.

Tom

 

[69MyWay]

Okay, Pan looks fine from what I can tell.

Today was a LONG day. I started by dropping the pan, checking it out, then replacing the rear main seal. I figured I might as well since I was this far anyway (even with less the 400 miles on the car).

I cleaned the pan, rails, and gasket. I applied a bead of ultra blue sealant along the pan gasket all the way around towards the outside edge. I then installed the pan, carefull to torque in sequence, then worked the sealant into the gasket all the way around.

I checked out the trans, and noted the lower shaft may have a small leak (common problem). That was handled with sealant. I resealed the back of the intake to the block since I had easy access.

I resealed the fuel pump block off, and applied super sticky purple liquid sealant to the plug below it.

I had a devil of a time getting the trans to go back in. I think I pulled every muscle in my chest and arms. I spend about four hours fooling with that. It just would not cooperate.

It will dry overnight, and we will bring it back to life Sunday afternoon.


Cross your fingers for me.

 

[Ken]

Can't give you a "crossed fingers" smiley but I can give you a "thumbs up" (or "upthumbs") instead -

_ken

 

[69vettester]

clarification about my oil pressure pressure statement

Gad Chris you covered all the bases, Now You wont know which fixed it :L :L

I know..So long as it's fixed, what the hey..



clarification.. It sounded like I was saying The oil would blow the pan gasket under pressure..I should have said the oil would blow by the gasket where it was not compressed OK.

Tom

 

[69MyWay]

Not fixedad

Now it is clearly leaking in the frontal region. Oil has spread on the lower front of the pan, but not at the very front, it is dripping on the power steering hydraulic rod, and sprayed around the tie rods and front supports. The timing cover, timing tab, and balancer are dry. This oil is spraying down and getting the passenger floor wet again. The back of the block, bell housing, etc. is dry!

I swear to you. If somebody offered me a reasonable amount of money for this car right now, you would be surprise how quick I would sign the title over. It is messing with my head and my time and I am about tired of it.

I have noticed that the gasket around the fuel pump block off plate is soaked wet through and through. Eventhough I resealed it, could that be the problem? I doubt it, but I am trying anything now. Next step will be to pull all the accessories off, and replace the front main seal (even though I swear it is not leaking!).

That will take me a couple of days because it is a terrible tight fit up there with the long leg water pump etc.

 

[jim coulter]

I went out and looked at my 71(since everything is not back on it yet, I could see pretty good) and the first place I would think is the fuel pump block off plate or the plug directly below it(where the fuel pump rod goes in)My second choice would be the front seal.They both look like possible culprits, but I went with the fuel one first because it looked easier to remedy. Wish you luck.:confused

 

[69MyWay]

Thanks Jim,

That is where my focus is.

I just pulled the block off plate off. I tested it on a flat surface. It is not true and flat at all. I think Tom Bryant or somebody metioned that earlier in this thread. It is otherwise I high quality looking part. It came from Edelbrock with the EFI kit.

I put it in the press, and made sure it was true. I then replaced the gasket with thin code of sealant. It is sitting up right now, and I will try it in just a bit.

The front seal really does not show any signs of being wet. No drips directly below the seal, or on the dead front lower center of the oil pan.

I guess that RTV needs an hour or so to set right.

 

[69MyWay]

Found it!

I jacked it up level, ran the engine (burned my inner thigh on the side pipe) for a few seconds around 3,000 RPM, shut down and jumped under it. Boom, I saw severl drips escaping between the balancer and the front of the pan.

So, I guess my front seal has failed. Now, how does it fail with only 330 miles?

Either the seal is bad, I scored it installing it, the front timing cover is not machined for a direct alignment, bent crank up front, or a out of round balancer.

All was new except for the crank.

I am going to be in a real pickle getting to this in the car. I am going to attempt to access it from the bottom side. I first have to remove the front sway bar mounts and slip out the plate that covers that portion. I imagine this will take me through next weekend. Yet another one has come and gone and I have wrenched on it instead of driving it.

 

[jim coulter]

I had to jack one side of the engine up to get my balancer off.At least you found it, sometimes they can drive ya crazy.:crazy. glad you found it. good luck.

 

[69MyWay]

Just now got the balancer off. Nikki has prepared a very nice dinner, so it is time to take a break.

I will pull the timing cover next.

The March Performance pulleys were easier than I thought to yank. I left the a/c and power steering in place, and pulled the alternater.

I think I forgot to install one of those slinger discs behind the balancer.

I will check that out.

 

[69MyWay]

This has been the typical pose of the car for the last many weekends.

 

[69MyWay]

Here is the engine bay. As you can see, I have been hammering this afternoon to track this down. Everything opened up quite well. Even with my good harmonic balancer tool, it will be very difficult to crank it back into place.

 

[69MyWay]

Here you will see the balancer, timing cover, and the cool balancer tool in the back ground.

 

[69MyWay]

Maybe this is the bad guy. Look close, and you can see the lower right side of the seal housing is not perfectly round. I have to wonder if I punched it on the edge here when assembling, and it has just worn the seal out. The spring retainer was still in place on the back of the seal.