J
jim coulter
Guest
Good possibility, it definantly looks flatten down on bottom right. When you took it off, could you tell if it looked as if that might be the spot that was leaking?
Oh where oh where is my oil leak?
- Thread starter 69MyWay
- Start date
Hello,
I've been "lurking" on this thread as the drama unfolds and would like to throw me two cents in.
Is your timing cover billet or cast aluminum? In the closeup picture of your seal there are a few small dots in the cover body at the 5 o'clock position; to the right and below the larger black spot which looks like dirt. If the cover is cast aluminum you might have open pinhole porosity. Cast aluminum is very prone small gas bubbles and shrink defects especially in "t-sections" where the casting section thinkness changes from thin to thick. The area with the smaller spots is just such a section. Over time aluminum will belcome brittle and can cause a leak path to develop where none was previously. I've worked in steel and iron foundries for many years so I might be wrong but I think the aluminum foundries call it nitrogen embrittlement.
It might be worth your time to have the cover PT (liquid penetrant) tested for porosity. Take a picture of your fantasic car and the cover to a NDT Labortory or a foundry and they'll probably test it for free or close to nothing; I know my employees would. If you need help finding NDT sources I can help on Monday when I'm back in the office.
As far as my experience goes I served an apprenticeship in a foundry 26 years ago. My background is engine blocks and cylinder heads having personally hand assembled Pontiac 455 HO replacement heads, Indy car heads and Ford Special Vehicle Operations Winston Car Blocks. I left that iron foundry 12 years ago and to my great pain I will report they are the current supplier of the Phase 2 Bowtie head and the Chevy Rocket Block.
Eugene
Good luck.
Eugene
I've been "lurking" on this thread as the drama unfolds and would like to throw me two cents in.
Is your timing cover billet or cast aluminum? In the closeup picture of your seal there are a few small dots in the cover body at the 5 o'clock position; to the right and below the larger black spot which looks like dirt. If the cover is cast aluminum you might have open pinhole porosity. Cast aluminum is very prone small gas bubbles and shrink defects especially in "t-sections" where the casting section thinkness changes from thin to thick. The area with the smaller spots is just such a section. Over time aluminum will belcome brittle and can cause a leak path to develop where none was previously. I've worked in steel and iron foundries for many years so I might be wrong but I think the aluminum foundries call it nitrogen embrittlement.
It might be worth your time to have the cover PT (liquid penetrant) tested for porosity. Take a picture of your fantasic car and the cover to a NDT Labortory or a foundry and they'll probably test it for free or close to nothing; I know my employees would. If you need help finding NDT sources I can help on Monday when I'm back in the office.
As far as my experience goes I served an apprenticeship in a foundry 26 years ago. My background is engine blocks and cylinder heads having personally hand assembled Pontiac 455 HO replacement heads, Indy car heads and Ford Special Vehicle Operations Winston Car Blocks. I left that iron foundry 12 years ago and to my great pain I will report they are the current supplier of the Phase 2 Bowtie head and the Chevy Rocket Block.
Eugene
Good luck.
Eugene
6
69vettester
Guest
Walla, That may be it , Im thinking it couldnt be perfect round anymore with that dent in it Eh??
At least you found something after all your effort ..
Hope thats it..
At least you found something after all your effort ..
Hope thats it..
compyelc4
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 1, 2002
- Messages
- 609
- Location
- Dayton, Ohio
- Corvette
- '95 LT1 Coupe, Comp Yell; C6 Roadster, Vel Yell
Is that blood on the floor?
- Thread starter
- #45
69MyWay
Well-known member
Impala,
I wonder if I could do a simple test right here. I have noticed that liquid wrench solvent will penetrate about anything. It will leak through things that don't have leaks.
I could level out the cover, then fill it up on the backside and watch. If there is a hole/pore, etc, that will creep through it
What do you think about trying that?
Ah, no blood on the floor - yet!
Although, if I don't fix this leak there may be little tiny pieces of fiberglass all over the floor
I wonder if I could do a simple test right here. I have noticed that liquid wrench solvent will penetrate about anything. It will leak through things that don't have leaks.
I could level out the cover, then fill it up on the backside and watch. If there is a hole/pore, etc, that will creep through it
What do you think about trying that?
Ah, no blood on the floor - yet!
Although, if I don't fix this leak there may be little tiny pieces of fiberglass all over the floor
Good Morning,
Because the porosity can be on the microscopic level, causing weeping leakage, the first step in PT is you use a solvent to clean out the area. The solvent used will then evaporate drawing any oil out with it, leaving the defect open to accept the testing material. It's been a while since I did any hands on testing but the dwell time was generally 20 to 30 minutes of evaporation. After the cleaning the suspect area was flooded with the test liquid and left to dwell for another 20 to 30 minutes. The testing liquid is more fluid than water and will enter any porosity through capilary action. After this dwell period the suspect area is again solvent cleaned and left to evaporate for 20 to 30 minutes. The last step is to cover the area with a Developer material which is hungry for moisture and draws whatever test material that remains in the porosity out leaving a colored trace. This is called visual PT. The more sensitive test is Flourescent PT where the test liquid glows under a black light.
You could try using rubbing alcohol as the cleaner, Liquid Wrench or dyed water as the test liquid and a very, very light layer of fine flour as the developer. I'd suggest leaving the cover in the sun to allow it to heat up and expand to open up any porosity to a larger diameter. May the QA Gods forgive me for even suggesting this procedure.
If you want I can have the cover tested for no charge at my work. If the cover is next day air mailed you could have it back in two days. Send an e-mail to me at work: enickel@stainlessfoundry.com.
I truely hope it is just the seal but as long as the cover is off it might as well be ruled out as the cause.
Eugene
Because the porosity can be on the microscopic level, causing weeping leakage, the first step in PT is you use a solvent to clean out the area. The solvent used will then evaporate drawing any oil out with it, leaving the defect open to accept the testing material. It's been a while since I did any hands on testing but the dwell time was generally 20 to 30 minutes of evaporation. After the cleaning the suspect area was flooded with the test liquid and left to dwell for another 20 to 30 minutes. The testing liquid is more fluid than water and will enter any porosity through capilary action. After this dwell period the suspect area is again solvent cleaned and left to evaporate for 20 to 30 minutes. The last step is to cover the area with a Developer material which is hungry for moisture and draws whatever test material that remains in the porosity out leaving a colored trace. This is called visual PT. The more sensitive test is Flourescent PT where the test liquid glows under a black light.
You could try using rubbing alcohol as the cleaner, Liquid Wrench or dyed water as the test liquid and a very, very light layer of fine flour as the developer. I'd suggest leaving the cover in the sun to allow it to heat up and expand to open up any porosity to a larger diameter. May the QA Gods forgive me for even suggesting this procedure.
If you want I can have the cover tested for no charge at my work. If the cover is next day air mailed you could have it back in two days. Send an e-mail to me at work: enickel@stainlessfoundry.com.
I truely hope it is just the seal but as long as the cover is off it might as well be ruled out as the cause.
Eugene
- Thread starter
- #47
69MyWay
Well-known member
Dry at last!
Okay, I don't want to Jinx it, but we just test drove it about 10-15 miles. So far she is dry!
I just parked it in the shop to cool off. We will see what kind of drips if any are there after it settles overnight.
Thanks for all the input and support.
Chris
Okay, I don't want to Jinx it, but we just test drove it about 10-15 miles. So far she is dry!
I just parked it in the shop to cool off. We will see what kind of drips if any are there after it settles overnight.
Thanks for all the input and support.
Chris
J
jim coulter
Guest
good luck 
hope its dry in the morning 
hope its dry in the morning
R
rpounds
Guest
Got my fingers crossed for ya Chris!!
Ron
Ron
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2002
- Messages
- 7,246
- Location
- Washington, Michigan
- Corvette
- '67 Marina Blue Convertible
How's the seal surface on the O.D. of the balancer hub? Any grooves or marks? Repair sleeves are cheap, take 5 minutes to install, and give you a perfect surface for the lip on the seal.
Are you sure the timing cover seal hole is perfectly concentric with the crank snout? Is it doweled in place? I've seen several of these that weren't concentric, had to machine a tubular sleeve to fit over the crank snout to precisely center the timing cover hole to the crank, then attach the timing cover, remove the sleeve and install the balancer. Just a thought, especially with an aftermarket timing cover.
Are you sure the timing cover seal hole is perfectly concentric with the crank snout? Is it doweled in place? I've seen several of these that weren't concentric, had to machine a tubular sleeve to fit over the crank snout to precisely center the timing cover hole to the crank, then attach the timing cover, remove the sleeve and install the balancer. Just a thought, especially with an aftermarket timing cover.
- Thread starter
- #51
69MyWay
Well-known member
Still dry!
However, I must admit I am afraid to look under it :duh
John Z, you are right on target with my largest concern. The balancer is new, with no grooves in it, so no problem there. The timing cover is a solid aluminum unit and could have been machined wrong. There is a trick on small blocks to drill out the alignment pin hole, then not tighten the timing cover bolts until the cover has been slid over the crank so that it will self center.
I remembered that the other night just as I was putting the a/c compressor back in place.
I think in this case the most likely culprit was the actual high dollar one piece oil pan gasket from Felpro.
I ended up sectioning the front portion of it out, then using the stand alone front lower timing/pan seal with an appropriate amount of sealant, and leaving plenty of time for it to tack, before I assembled it.
With this out of the way (I pray), I can go back to some finess items. I am running out of time to have the luxary to thrash the car more, look for problems, then keep detailing and triming it out. It will be missing some nice finishing touches at Sharkfest, but that can come later.
My buddy is trying to talk me into making aluminum shields around the engine bay to give it a very industrial high tech clean look under the hood. He made some out of poster board for me, then mocked up a rough one for the passenger inner fender covering up the over flow tank (not the pressure tank), and the vintage air a/c lines and drier unit. We will see how all this works out.
However, I must admit I am afraid to look under it :duh
John Z, you are right on target with my largest concern. The balancer is new, with no grooves in it, so no problem there. The timing cover is a solid aluminum unit and could have been machined wrong. There is a trick on small blocks to drill out the alignment pin hole, then not tighten the timing cover bolts until the cover has been slid over the crank so that it will self center.
I remembered that the other night just as I was putting the a/c compressor back in place.
I think in this case the most likely culprit was the actual high dollar one piece oil pan gasket from Felpro.
I ended up sectioning the front portion of it out, then using the stand alone front lower timing/pan seal with an appropriate amount of sealant, and leaving plenty of time for it to tack, before I assembled it.
With this out of the way (I pray), I can go back to some finess items. I am running out of time to have the luxary to thrash the car more, look for problems, then keep detailing and triming it out. It will be missing some nice finishing touches at Sharkfest, but that can come later.
My buddy is trying to talk me into making aluminum shields around the engine bay to give it a very industrial high tech clean look under the hood. He made some out of poster board for me, then mocked up a rough one for the passenger inner fender covering up the over flow tank (not the pressure tank), and the vintage air a/c lines and drier unit. We will see how all this works out.
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