Opinions of Steeroids Rack & Pinion for C-3

[Craig1979]

I'm considering the Steeroids Rack & Pinion replacement steering set-up for my 1979.
I've done a threads search and read some of the old comments about the Steeroids set-up, and rack & pinions in general.
Does anyone have first hand experience with the results obtained from installing a Steeroids system on their own C-3 Vette??
The Steeroids system is not cheap - but if it offer a substantial improvement it may be worth the cost.
I'm looking for feedback from owners actually driving the Steeriods set-up.
-driving comparison to original stock steering set-up
-any bump steer with Steeroids set-up
-any problems with binding of steering U-joints
-any other first-hand commments.

 

[mrvette]

If you search around you will find I did my own thing just about the time the steeroids set up was being designed/tested....I have what I consider to be a superior setup....using the same rack they do...in other words a 2.7 turn L-L rack from a '92 Grand am....with quad 4 engine....the vette now handles great , like for 3 years now....some changes were done of course, but the overall affect is great, car tracks with wide tires just fine....something the old system is not capable of doing...

GENE

 

[photovette]

Their ad states that most of the improvement come from a lower L/L ratio--you can accomplish the same thing by buying a new steering box for 1/3 the price.

 

[mrvette]

AFAIK, the vette boxes are only available with the 3.8-4 turn L-L ratio....16:1, now there is another system using a Jeep?? box, that allmost fits, but needs differant mounting holes, 4 instead of 3, and some mods/replacement to the pittman arm....

I think there is nothing in the way of any drag link setup/recirc ball that's going to be as tight as a rack...just too many moving parts, each one having a bit of slack, and in total, it's noticeable in a car like a vette, especially when you update the tires to 40/50 series on an older frame like ours....
much less having that controll valve in the line on our stock sytem....

GENE

 

[fc3]

My 72 has quite a bit of slack...so I have been shopping for something. I noticed Corvette Central, Catalog 3E, on page 147, has an all new Steering Box that is a 12:1 quick ratio as opposed to the 16:1 that was stock. The bad news is it costs $459( no core charge). Less than Steeroids I suppose... Anyone seen or tried this box? Fred.

 

[photovette]

Slack you say? Does your 'vette also handle poorly when slow cornering? Does it 'porpoise' on the interstate? Does it 'wander' more noticably in the rain?

If yes, have you changed the tie end rods, sleeves, idler arm lately? I just did and the steering and handling is 'like new' tight. I got everything new off ebay for about $70. Really was pretty easy to remove and install. You might also want to check your steering lash. This repair ranks just under my new 355/350 motor in driving satisfaction. Before you make any modes, I will point out the small block C3's were known for excellent handling--they were never handling dogs.

 

[mrvette]

FOR IT'S TIME, the C3's were fine handling machines, but you gotta remember they had at best, early radial tires, and were designed in the late 50's, the chassis coming out in '63, and no significant changes but disc brakes throughout that run....
but tire tech has progressed a LOT since the bias ply crap they had back then, and if you bother to significantly update the tires/wheels to something more modern, you will find the shortcomings showing up even in a fresh rebuilt front end.....you leave those old style sloppy tall 70-78080 series tires on there, and you won't feel a damn thing from a stock to a rack conversion, except the faster ratio steering....
put on a set of like my conversion I did immediately and lived with for over 5 years, that's '92 vette wheels/tires adapted to the old steering/shark...'72.....the car allways was a freeway handful....front end was all new....thing was ...up in Maryland whre the subsoil was more clay based, and therefore more solid, the rutting and crap from trucks was not so prevalent in the freeways at high speed, so the car didn't have the severe reactions except in spots, so that older steering was not so much an issue, but when I moved to florida here, I noticed that on asphault freeways, the rutting made the car a handful, but on say concrete bridges, everything smoothed out....this all with the 40-50- series tires on 17 inch rims.....
about 3 years ago I put on the rack, and all those sort of complaint went away, .....

all I can say is what happened, and now that my install is all dialed in design wise, I would not be without it...period....keep that olde tyme booster/controll valve system for the olde tyme tyres.....

you going to improve the car, the first thing is the tires/wheels, then the steering, then more HP to the ground, and lastly a reliable overdrive, meaning a 200 tranny, another issue....

GENE

 

[Craig1979]

GENE:

Sounds like your sold on the rack & pinion conversion. I agree the wider, low profile tire do tend to exagerate the steering defincies in the C-3 steering design.
I've talked with several people who have gone the route of completely rebuilding/replacing the original components (steering box, control valve, ram, control arms bushings, tie rods, idler arm, etc, etc), only to obtain marginal improvement. It appears that the original system design must be prone to causing the car to wander, track in ruts, and require continual steering correction (especially at freeway speeds).

From a previous thread posting it sounded like you brewed up your own components for the rack & pinion install?
Is that correct, or did you actually install the Steeroids steering system??
Craig

FOR IT'S TIME, the C3's were fine handling machines, but you gotta remember they had at best, early radial tires, and were designed in the late 50's, the chassis coming out in '63, and no significant changes but disc brakes throughout that run....
but tire tech has progressed a LOT since the bias ply crap they had back then, and if you bother to significantly update the tires/wheels to something more modern, you will find the shortcomings showing up even in a fresh rebuilt front end.....you leave those old style sloppy tall 70-78080 series tires on there, and you won't feel a damn thing from a stock to a rack conversion, except the faster ratio steering....
put on a set of like my conversion I did immediately and lived with for over 5 years, that's '92 vette wheels/tires adapted to the old steering/shark...'72.....the car allways was a freeway handful....front end was all new....thing was ...up in Maryland whre the subsoil was more clay based, and therefore more solid, the rutting and crap from trucks was not so prevalent in the freeways at high speed, so the car didn't have the severe reactions except in spots, so that older steering was not so much an issue, but when I moved to florida here, I noticed that on asphault freeways, the rutting made the car a handful, but on say concrete bridges, everything smoothed out....this all with the 40-50- series tires on 17 inch rims.....
about 3 years ago I put on the rack, and all those sort of complaint went away, .....

all I can say is what happened, and now that my install is all dialed in design wise, I would not be without it...period....keep that olde tyme booster/controll valve system for the olde tyme tyres.....

you going to improve the car, the first thing is the tires/wheels, then the steering, then more HP to the ground, and lastly a reliable overdrive, meaning a 200 tranny, another issue....

GENE

 

[mrvette]

Craig, sometime in later 2001, after the disaster in NYC, I took the vette down for a long planned overhaul, the car was needing a whole lot of crap, among them a complete custom of the driver's position, to make it fit ME better, and a complete rewire of the electricals, as some of the years old patch work and other problems inherant with the original harness, (read too many damn interlocks and Nader oriented crap) were causing problems....so with the need to reroute the computer DPFI harness, and the combo of other basic electrical problems mounting, I decided to just chuck the repair/maintance towel, and go for an entire rebuild.... but hearing that a rack and pinion was possible from the forum, and early indications of the steeroids being out, I decided to explore a bit more off the original fellow in Europe that did a rack install from a Saab 900, well that Saab 900 rack price here is just silly, come to find out eventually, it's the SAME rack as a '92 Grand Am....so eventually after trying various combo's, I found out about this CTO rack and have seen it's the same as the Steeroids setup.....but in the meantime I fabbed up my own brackets, and input linkage, and tie rod combo....and then a year or so later with Pete79L82's help I changed the inner tie rod location for better bounce toe changes....relocated the height of the inner tie rods...

so yes, I did my own install, but a buddy did the welding....

GENE

 

[Vette-4-Life]

I'm considering the Steeroids Rack & Pinion replacement steering set-up for my 1979.
I've done a threads search and read some of the old comments about the Steeroids set-up, and rack & pinions in general.
Does anyone have first hand experience with the results obtained from installing a Steeroids system on their own C-3 Vette??
The Steeroids system is not cheap - but if it offer a substantial improvement it may be worth the cost.
I'm looking for feedback from owners actually driving the Steeriods set-up.

-driving comparison to original stock steering set-up
-driving comparison to original stock steering set-up

Much better response, goes where you point it

-any bump steer with Steeroids set-up

I believe this is not eliminated based on reading thru other posts. Doesn't seem to be enough to cause me problems.

-any problems with binding of steering U-joints

Yes. This takes some finessing to get all the binding out.

-any other first-hand commments.

I had replaced the tie rod ends, slave cylinder, and control valve on my 80. It helped some but it still wasn't tight, there is also an adjustment on the steering box which i did also.
After a year both the slave cylinder and control valve were leaking again. Decided to go with the steeroids and picked it up during a group purchase earlier this year. Took about 2 hours to remove the old and 6.5 hours to install. The hardest part of the install for me was getting the power steering hose to slip onto the power steering pump. The hose has no give, i used a hair dryer and lube to slide it on, others have used a drill to make it slightly larger. I did have binding in the u-joints, this was eliminated by trial and error.

Steering is much tighter now and there are no leaks, expect to take full advantage of steeroids when the new 17" wheels arrive this week.

Biggest drawback for me is the reduced turning radius which is significant. Used to be able to turn like i had zero radius turning, it now turns like my s10 truck

 

[lone73]

Rebuilt front ends...

I completely rebuilt my front end and replaced just about EVERYTHING a few years back. I have always had serious rut-following problems and finally decided to just live with it. I have 255-60-15 Dunlop's on all 4 wheels.

I was seriously considering the Steeroids setup, Heard there was significant bump steer issue with it and had u-joint binding prob's. Now you say that it significantly increases the turning radius too?

Hmmm.... don't know if this is such a good idea or not.
.
.
.

 

[fc3]

Photovette,
The front end is freshly rebuilt(complete rebuild with VanSteel-poly bushings), KYB shocks, PS cyl. It still has some slack in the steering... the front end is MUCH improved, but the steering slack is annoying. Fred.

 

[crash1mac]

Eric who owns the company www.Speeddirect.com and i believe he is the owner of steeroids He is local to the dfw Texas area and i have seen the set up on his car and it looks great .He made the trip to bowing green with us in may with his c3 and also autcrosssed in it while he was their and did quite well /,He is aa great guy to deal with.

 

[applevette]

I'm not sure, but isn't the old gear box steering used in NASCAR. As far as the slack in the steering... has anybody tried replacing the rag joint?

 

[Craig1979]

Thanks guys for all the input to date!

Sounds like more than a few are unhappy with the C-3 steering. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the problem is not the fault of any one component, but likely a "stacking" of tolerances within the many components that make up the C-3 steering system (steering box, control valve, ram, etc).
I've driven other GM performance car with manual & internal power steering boxes, with ratios similiar to the Corvette, and have not found them to make the car a task to steer precisely.
I've already gone the route of a complete front suspension rebuild (tie rods, bushings, ball joints, idle arm, etc), adjusted the steering box play, reduced the front wheel bearing play to minimums, double checked alignments - but the problems continues to some degree.
If anyone has any further first hand experience with the Steeriods Rack & Pinion please post it here for others to read.
Thanks much.

(Yes - NASCAR does use blue-printed steering boxes - but not of the C3 corvette style - maybe there's a reason??????)

I'm not sure, but isn't the old gear box steering used in NASCAR. As far as the slack in the steering... has anybody tried replacing the rag joint?

 

[mrvette]

Allthough I was all over the rag joint, it was proven good condition, with no slop, easy to see when car was still, and someone cranked on the wheel with key on....points of max force on shaft.....

that was never the issue, I"m convinced that modern wider rubber, even with 60 series, is more road sensitive than that old steering input controll valve allows for, meaning that when the tires grab the road, they create more input from the valve, and so wheel is even MORE unstable..., either under or over reacting, I"m not sure, but the problems are exascerbated I"m sure....
but with a rack, all that disappears....
now another thing ....steering radius....

I can say my steering snuber blocks on the lower rear of the lower A arms are built out about 3/4 inches, so to limit tire rubbing with 255/50/17 on front, and also was needed but not so much with 275/40/17 on front, the old original tire for a '92 vette.....

BUT, it's still a tighter turning car than my'87 vette was....by a fair shot too...

GENE

 

[photovette]

If all those things were changed, I wonder where the slack is. I've had 2 C3's--a 1981 I bought when it was a year old, and my current '77. The handling was great on the '81 and now is back to great in the '77. I have no slack in the steering at all--the wheel moves a fraction and the tires move a fraction. I had it out last night in Tropical Storm Gaston's rain and she tracked straight and true. My last car was a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 which I bought new--it handled much better than my '77 of course, but only when the tires were fairly new--and those tires cost $$$$$ so I didn't change them until the last minute. The C3's are more consistant handling throughtout the life of the tire--and TA radials are cheap too.

As for modern rubber, TA's were available and common in the 70's--I think they're still the best all around tire for a C3.

 

[Chris Kennedy]

My basic problem with the Steeroids system is strength/safety related. Being an aftermarket re-engineering, I am concerned about its durability. Also, I think ground clearance of some of the brackets may be an issue. For now, I am sticking with the stock system. I have adjusted the box periodically, which improves things a great deal. I would also suggest running maximum toe "in" on the front suspension. It appears that when you adjust the lash screw on the box, it must somehow push the pitman rod and its serrations (which I believe are beveled) up against the worm nut serrations. Is this true? Looking at the steering box diagrams, this is the only thing I can think of as to what happens. Of course, this also wears the screw and the pitman arm serrations, so you have to do periodic adjustments. At this point, I will probably get a remanufactured box in the near future when I do a general overhaul of the front end. I REALLY wish someone would come out with an improved box---based on the effect of the adjustments I have made, that is where the real problem is.

--Chris Kennedy
Houston, Texas

 

[applevette]

Could something like this be adapted to our cars?

 

[mrvette]

Well, you know these damn olde tyme original steering boxes with God kows how many miles on them, for sure anyway....well they plainly wear out, the lower bearing on the sector gear, the gears themselves, and what not all have wear on them, so just plainly adjusting alone will not allways do it....too boot you have to make damn sure it's not binding anywhaere in the travel, or you take a chance the steering will not come back and straighten out for you when needed... the problem is AFAIK, no one makes new gears for these old boxes anymore, if they do, look out on price....so the 'rebuilt' boxes are compromised right there....

as for the safety issue, I agree the steeroids design leaves a bit to be desired on the height of the pass side bracket, as they use the original clamp/bushing there, and so it needs the lower tab straightened out, and a bolt put in vertically, so to take an inch off the length downward...more ground clearance, NOW it's behind the lower controll arm.......
ok, steeroids used an extra joint and pivot stabilizer for that extra linkage on the input shaft.....I did not want to go that route.....I used just two universal joints...but still had to change headers to clear the input shaft setup....

GENE