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Please help - What's the main difference from the 71 270 HP and LT1 330 HP

Whiplash

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
276
Location
New Jersey
Corvette
71 Kandy Burple Conv / 02 MY Z06
Please help. I'm planning on rebuilding my base 350 270HP 71 this fall. I know the LT1 had solid lifters but I'm not sure what other differences there were. I've got a numbers matching engine but wouldn't mind making some internal changes for a little boost. If anyone knows the differences I'd appreciate it particularly:

Carb - 270 Qjet
Intake -
Heads -
Compression -
Cam - Overlap and Duration 270 vs 330
Lifters - 270 Hydraulic 330 Solid

What cam would you put in to get in the 350 range? What compression?

I'm not looking for a 400 HP motor 350 would be plenty.

Thanks

Whiplash
 
The LT1 used an alumn high rise with Holley, base used iron intake with q-jet, LT1 had higher compression, bigger valves, 4-bolt mains and stronger internals. Also had 2 1/2" exhaust, base had 2". So the power came from the intake, the big valves, much wilder cam with solid lifters, higher compression, and bigger exhaust pipes.

tom...
 
Tom73 said:
The LT1 used an alumn high rise with Holley, base used iron intake with q-jet, LT1 had higher compression, bigger valves, 4-bolt mains and stronger internals. Also had 2 1/2" exhaust, base had 2". So the power came from the intake, the big valves, much wilder cam with solid lifters, higher compression, and bigger exhaust pipes.

tom...

Tom,

Thanks. That's what I was looking for. I'm debating upon an intake swap, cam swap, and head swap versus leaving it bone stock on the outside. I keep kidding myself that I might go the whole NCRS path but I don't think that's what I want in this car. When I bought it it was a 1 owner car unmolested but showing it's age. I'm not cutting anything or doing irreversible changes just want a little more out of it.

Thanks for your help. You wouldn't happen to know the cam specs would you?

Cheers

Jon
 
You can find all the cam specs here:

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/3000/cmspec.html

What I would be tempted to do is to pull you complete engine and put it back in safe storage in case you or a future owner wants to go the NCRS route. Then I would just drop in a good GMPP crate engine. Great HP and they come with a factory warranty :)

tom...
 
The base engine cam had a .390 , .410 lift with 196 , 206 dur. @ .050 Hyd. lifter.
Lt-1 was .460 , .480 with 242 ,254 dur. @ .050 Solid lifter.
These numbers are real close. Different publications will read a little different.
 
Hi guys, I had an LT-1 72 that I had to rebuild. The blocks are the same up to 73 I think,3970010 casting # which is a 4 bolt block(HD truck block) The stock 71 heads were the same except for the valves I 2.02 exh 1.60 stock had 1.9? I, and exh 1.58. Guide plates, springs, screw in studs, pushrods and Mech cam on LT-1. The L48 crank was Iron, LT-1 was non-Twist forged steel, cross-drilled, chamfered,full fillet radii,Tufrided to .50"(hardening) depth on rod and main journals, counter weights were lightened by knife edging( more attention was paid to Factory balancing), 'pink' Rods, TRW forged alum. -8 dome pistons(If I remember right),Steel timing gears w/ dbl roller chain(cam & crank gears) More gph fuel pump, 780 cfm d-feed single pump Vac sec holley. I don't remember the stock cam #'s, I used a perfect circle mech cam I think the #'s were 108 degrees of overlap, 314 degrees duration In & exh, .458 In lift & .468 Exh lift(those #'s are from memory from 1978). The important difference is the CC volume, 70's had 64cc heads and 71 & 72 used 76cc heads. The 70 cam was way more radical than the 71 or 72 cam, but all yielded only about 15 inches of vacume at idle, 900 rpm. All of that is old tech by today's stds. Oh, forgot Exh. Manifolds on LT-1's were said to flow better even though they looked the same as L48's and L49's and exhaust pipes were 2.5" vs 2.0". Ignition sys on 70 & 71 were TI, 72 used std dist., and 70 had different mech advance and Vac advance #'s. Oh forgot all LT-1's had high volume oil pumpsTRW I think and the early production 70 LT-1's had a racing oil pan(5qts in pan + 1 in filter) hence no P/S, 71 & 72 had stock 4 qt pans, all had windage trays, but the 5 qt pan had trap door baffles front to back and a spiral baffle for side to side oil control. It was a well built S/B for the day, but now it is just nostalgic- but powerful and it sounds nice especially through factory side pipes! I'm sure I forgot a few things I did this from memory, as I sold the car a long time ago. You can make an LT-1 motor out of any 3970010 block though with enough $, modern technology has made the LT-1's obsolete(but I still want one). tt72
 
Hi guys, I forgot something which I think is important. The LT-1's had bigger drive train parts. The drive shaft and half-shafts and u-joints were same as the 427 and 454 corvettes and the maintenence intervals listed in the owners manual for rear end and tranny fluids change intervals were every 6 mos./3000 miles. Again, if I remember correctly. I know for sure the change intervals were half of what was listed for a 72 L-48( my friend had a 4spd L-48 ). Sorry to be so long winded about this. Oh yea the front sway bar I think was different also, not sure about the springs, because I used the parts from the F41 package when I rebuilt my car's mechanicals. Oh, I forgot LT-1's had no fuel return line, and I think they used a unique copper radiator(bigger than L48-49's???) and had no overflow tank. Oh yea, a different(bigger??) harmonic balancer and the M22 equipped cars used a bigger fly wheel/clutch/pressure plate set up than the M20 or M21 cars( auto trans N/A), also I think the water pump might have been different but I'm really not sure. I think I'll shut up now, It's just that I did all this work to mine with learning as I went and had to exchange quite a few parts cause the LT-1's had unique stuff. I eventually learned to say "special high performance application 350 LT-1" at the NAPA store and the chevy dealership, heck even the 72 LT-1 coil was different than an L48's!!!
 
Whiplash:
There's a lot more to it than just a cam & intake. So ... like Tom73 suggests, why not buy (or build) another motor ... and store your original numbers matching?

Many very good weekend mechanics don't have the time, place, tooling and expertise to produce a reliable hi-po motor ... not without ending up requiring a lot of hands-on expert ($) help. For those, a hi-po crate is probably the best solution and the GMPP HT383 and ZZ4 crates are ones you might consider. The HT383 makes more manifold vacuum than the ZZ4 ... C3 lights-wipers are vacuum hungry. G'luck.
JACK:gap
 
Jack said:
Whiplash:
There's a lot more to it than just a cam & intake. So ... like Tom73 suggests, why not buy (or build) another motor ... and store your original numbers matching?

Many very good weekend mechanics don't have the time, place, tooling and expertise to produce a reliable hi-po motor ... not without ending up requiring a lot of hands-on expert ($) help. For those, a hi-po crate is probably the best solution and the GMPP HT383 and ZZ4 crates are ones you might consider. The HT383 makes more manifold vacuum than the ZZ4 ... C3 lights-wipers are vacuum hungry. G'luck.
JACK:gap
Guys,

Thanks for all the information. Yes a crate motor has been a consideration. It's an extremely good idea and I've gone back and forth on it since November.

Here's where I am in my head (I'm open for opinions)...

I rebuilt a motor when I was a teenager (Buick 455) and I've helped many friends with their SBC 350's. I'm very comfortable assembling a motor. As far as machining I know what needs to be done all I need is a good machine shop. I've read David Vizard's "How to rebuild your Small Block Chevy" and I think it's great for stock rebuild. I'm now reading his performance book and think I can squeak more performance out of the motor I have without replacing it. The question is how much mod can be done internally and will I get as much out of it as I would with a crate for the same money spent.

I realize there's more to it than just cam. I was wondering what cam was in the LT1 so I could get a feel for how much cam the stock heads could handle. After digging into head castings, combustion chamber volumes, valve sizes, and combustion chamber shapes I realize the heads in 71 were large chamber with just o.k. burn pattern. A set of 70 heads would have been better. With the stock heads my guess is 330 is going to be the upper end for HP if I keep stock block and heads.

So now I'm back to potential crate motor or just an excellent rebuild of the stock motor and be happy. A great deal of the decision has more to do with being able to say I did it myself than how much HP comes out of the build. I don't know if this point makes sense to anyone but it nags at me personally.

So please keep the thoughts coming. I'm eager for your opinions. I'm not pulling the motor until December so I've got time. Maybe I'll do the bone yard hunt and build a little monster motor myself and satisfy both needs.

Thanks again everyone.

Whiplash
 
Hi Whiplash,You might want to consider that the CR in a 70 LT-1 was where the power came from, everything chevy put in there worked with the CR to get max output. Also this power only made itself noticed at 2500rpm, and at3500rpm and up to 6500rpm it really showed itself. All the special parts were used so it would go to 7000 and not break. I would search the LT-1 Reg for threads on gas, cause at 11:1 CR that might be a factor. I know I eventually put back the 71-72 LT-1 heads on my car because I got tired of mixing fuel for the car. I think,save the #'s motor and use the modern approach bigger bore plus bigger stroke plus Aluim. heads with the right CR yield a pump gas happy stump puller. The only thing is $$, how much is enough to buy your HP target and have it be reliable and trouble free. You could always trade off streetability for power and would not loose to much HP, and then for those special situations be on the bottlle. tomtom72
 
tomtom72 said:
Hi Whiplash,You might want to consider that the CR in a 70 LT-1 was where the power came from, everything chevy put in there worked with the CR to get max output. Also this power only made itself noticed at 2500rpm, and at3500rpm and up to 6500rpm it really showed itself. All the special parts were used so it would go to 7000 and not break. I would search the LT-1 Reg for threads on gas, cause at 11:1 CR that might be a factor. I know I eventually put back the 71-72 LT-1 heads on my car because I got tired of mixing fuel for the car. I think,save the #'s motor and use the modern approach bigger bore plus bigger stroke plus Aluim. heads with the right CR yield a pump gas happy stump puller. The only thing is $$, how much is enough to buy your HP target and have it be reliable and trouble free. You could always trade off streetability for power and would not loose to much HP, and then for those special situations be on the bottlle. tomtom72
AMEN!
 
Jack said:
Guys,

Thanks again. 11:1 compression is not going to be practical. I'll only bump it up to what will run on the Exxon 93 I have around here. As far as target horse I'm really just looking to get it into the 350 HP range. I've got a 02 Z06 pushing 357 at the rear wheels (about 420-425 at the crank) so I've got the daily SOP. I just think a Vette should be plus 300HP. With 350 ish at the crank on the 71 I should put around 300 to the rear wheels. (assumes 15% drivetrain loss on a standard)

As far as budget, it's more about buying smart for me. If simple changes gets me to 1969/1970 type performance I'll be happy. I was interested in the LT1 since it still had decent HP even in 71. I don't want to be in a position if I ever decide to sell this car where I put an add in the paper saying 71 Conv asking $27K have over $30 K in receipts if you know what I'm getting at.

By the way. I just bolted a Allen's Chamberred exhaust on the 71 yesterday (the old exhaust was toast). It really sounds mean. Too bad noise doesn't mean HP :)

Thanks again everyone.

Whiplash
 
Hi Whiplash, I was thinking that a stock 270 hp motor would react well to a packaged mod type thing. The small valve heads would probably react well to a matched cam-intake-carb swap out. Those heads are not junk, and in street appa. the smaller valves may yield a big increase in low end power. Only thing is hood clearence on the carb-intake set up is tight! That is the reason for the 427-454 hood on LT-1's. I know the casting marks on 71 & 72 LT-1 heads are the same head casting marks on the L48 of same years. Just a thought, even if the intake ports are smaller(L48 vs. LT-1) you would get great idle to 5500 rpm response if every thing was matched. tt72
 
whiplash, You might try giving comp cams a call on thier tech line. You give the guy your statistics and goals and they tell you what cam and most of the other stuff you need. Very helpfull people there. 1-800-999-9853
 
curtis said:
whiplash, You might try giving comp cams a call on thier tech line. You give the guy your statistics and goals and they tell you what cam and most of the other stuff you need. Very helpfull people there. 1-800-999-9853
Tom tom and Curtis,

Good ideas. I need to call Comp Cams. I was hoping to call them with specs but I think your idea to call them with current motor and goals is a better idea.

Regarding my heads they're the 76cc vs the 64cc of the higher horse motors. Valve size can certainly be adjusted but the flow and chamber size are the big limitations I'm fighting with these heads.

I'll let you know what CC has to say.

Whiplash
 
Whiplash, the 71 and 72 lt-1's used the 76cc heads to get the 9.0cr. Unless you are certain the $$$$ is worth it heads can be expensive to swap out. Comp Cams can give you a cam(with all the matched valve train parts)- intake suggestion- carb suggestion that will wake up that motor for a relatively low $$$ investement. I went to them with a marine application and their system got me great bang for the buck. With stock chevy med. duty truck heads(1988) in a 350/ 2-bolt mator. I mean to tell ya my boat gained almost 20 mph over the factory stuff!! tt72
 

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