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Proximity alarm question

gcmlear

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
70
Location
EDMONTON CANADA
Corvette
2004 WHITE CONVERT
My previous ride a BMW convert had a aftermarket motion alarm which I thought was a great idea ( at least a warning there was an active alarm as a deterent)
The installers tell me that I cannot hook up to the existing alarm (add a motion sensor) and must install a complete new system, which I am reluctant to do as I am sure any future electrical problems under warranty would be pointed at the aftermarket alarm ( went through that with BMW) Any thoughts? Appreciate any input. An afterthought, I just read that corvettes are one of the most stolen cars. Are they being just towed away, my car is in heated underground condo most of the winter. Thanks in advance for any advise
 
HI there,
Corvette is very difficult to steal.
You HAVE to tow the car, in order to steal it, unless you have a set of keys.
3 security back ups within the vehicle prevent overriding of the ignition lock cylinder, so it you dont have the key, it is pretty useless.
Honestly, I would not install any aftermarket device.
Allthebest, c4c5:hb
 
gcmlear said:
My previous ride a BMW convert had a aftermarket motion alarm which I thought was a great idea ( at least a warning there was an active alarm as a deterent)
The installers tell me that I cannot hook up to the existing alarm (add a motion sensor) and must install a complete new system, which I am reluctant to do as I am sure any future electrical problems under warranty would be pointed at the aftermarket alarm ( went through that with BMW) Any thoughts? Appreciate any input. An afterthought, I just read that corvettes are one of the most stolen cars. Are they being just towed away, my car is in heated underground condo most of the winter. Thanks in advance for any advise

I used to be a factory rep in the car electronics industry, selling car audio and car security systems so I like to think I do know at least a little about this subject. It's been a number of years since i've been in that field and many things have changed, but the basic stay the same.

first off, installing a security system in the car will NOT void your warranty. Dealers and service writers at dealers will try to tell you that if they see one installed just so they can try to "pass off the blame" of anything wrong with the car. Have them show you where it's specifically written in the warranty saying you can't install a security system or the warranty is void and they can't. After being a factory rep I managed a few car audio shops and we went through this a lot with customers and dealers and NOT ONCE did the installation ever end up voiding the warranty on a car of any brand. In fact, we did a LOT of work for the dealers themselves who offered security systemsfor sale on their cars and we sold and installed the systems for them. If doing this it would have voided the general car warranty the dealerships would not have done it.
Having gotten THAT point out of the way, I'm going to agree with C4C5specialist and tell you my recommendation is not to bother installing an alarm on the car. The biggest "well-known secret" in the car security industry is that they don't do anything to truely protect your car! Yes, it will proably deter an amateur such as a kid just looking for a car to go on a joy ride but if a professional really wants your car NOTHING will prevent him from getting it.
If you were really, really concerned about securing your car from anyone short of a professional car theif, the proper method would be a mutli-layer system approach putting numerous barriers in the way so that it would just take too much time to get your car and they would give up and go onto something easier.
Since you already mentioned you didn't want a full system installed that wouldn't work for you anyway. .
without or without a full security system installed I would strongly advise to avoid the proximity sensors. Of all the various types of sensors that can be installed as part of a security package, this is the most unreliable and most annoying. i found that a large percentage of people that had them installed had them disconnected within a short time later. The way these sensors work is that they transmit a field around the vehicle typically in an egg-shaped pattern and anything that disrupts this field will trigger the sensor and therefore the alarm. Usually it's a 2-stage type warning. the first stage will emit a warning chirp or seies of chirps and the next stage sets the full arlarm off. The sensor has a sensitivity adjustment to adjust the size of the field for how far outside the car you want it to expand. you could adjust it low so it only goes off if someone would reach instead an open window or roof panel or set higher so if someone would come within a certain range such as maybe 3 feet to the car.
There are many problems with this type of sensor and they tend to cause more false alarms than any other type of sensor (therefore the reason a lot of people end up having them disconnected). As air teperature causes from cold to hot or hot to cold it can cause the sensor to react, something as simple as a fly or insect flying through the field can cause it to react, people walking close to the car without meaning harm can cause it to react (such as someone innocently parked next to you).
When it's set too high it goes off too often and people turn it down. When it's turned down too far it useless so why bother having it? getting just the right sensitivity can be an exercise in futility simply because as i mentioned earlier the ambiant air temperature will affect it and at one temperature it the sensitivity is at a certain level but it will change as the air temperature changes.
Since I sold security systems I did have one of these sensors installed on my car 9 I had pretty much a top-of-the-line system with everything so i could demo it to customers, but the proximity sensor was such a PITA that i ended up wiring in a simple toggle switch on it. for everyday use it was completely turned off and non-functioning but when I needed to demo the unit for customers that insisted on it I could flip the switch to power it up and demo it.
As far as the rest of my top-end security system, I never once from day one ever depended on it to actually protect my car from someone serious about wanting to steal it. I only had it on there for two reasons; first, so I could demo a system for customers, and second, for the convience items. these systems ARE cool to be able to wire them up so the keychain remores would loack/unlock my doors, roll my windows up or down, open or close my sunroof, pop open my gas cap door, even one push on the button could lock the doors, roll up the windows, close the sunroof, and turn on the alarm. A lot of times we also wired the systems in so the extra buttons on the remore could control custom applications on the custom audio systems, etc but that's another story.
 
BarryK said:
Having gotten THAT point out of the way, I'm going to agree with C4C5specialist and tell you my recommendation is not to bother installing an alarm on the car. The biggest "well-known secret" in the car security industry is that they don't do anything to truely protect your car! Yes, it will proably deter an amateur such as a kid just looking for a car to go on a joy ride but if a professional really wants your car NOTHING will prevent him from getting it.

If you were really, really concerned about securing your car from anyone short of a professional car theif, the proper method would be a mutli-layer system approach putting numerous barriers in the way so that it would just take too much time to get your car and they would give up and go onto something easier.
GCMLear,
I agree completely with Barry's sentiments above. Aftermarket alarms may give you a sense of "peace of mind," but ultimately, you can't full faith in their ability to prevent a car from being stolen. If a thief really wants a car, and has staked it out, nothing is going to prevent them from getting it, even if they have to tow it as C4C5Specialist indicates.

The goal of any theft deterrant system is not to prevent theft of the car, but to make the theft of a particular car a less desirable option than the theft of a less protected car.

And I agree that a motion sensor, while a cool feature, can be more of a headache than a boon. Walk down any downtown street, where cars are parked at meters, and you'll see car alarms sometimes going off for no apparent reason at all. Nothing is more annoying than innocently walking down the street and having, for example, a motion sensor detect your movement because you've strayed into its protective plane around a vehicle and chirp at you, or worse, have some automated voice that tells you "this vehicle is protected, please move along."

These things have become so commonplace that I believe people have started to ignore the alarms when they go off.

Tactically, my personal bias when it comes to car security is a two-fold approach. One, do something visible to protect the car. I know this sounds corny, but if you get and use "The Club," its an easily seen sign that stealing the car is going to involve some work. Second, do something to make your car easily retriveable if it is stolen- something like LoJack or a GPS locator is ideal, and if it comes with a remote engine kill option, so much the better. (Some of these can actually call your cell phone or pager to alert you they are being stolen.)

This won't prevent a vandal from keying your car or breaking a window, but it will give you the ability to show your insurance company that you have made the car visibly more difficult to take, and more likely to be recovered if stolen. And that is probably the better use of any kind of theft deterrant system- the insurance cost benefits.

Just my $0.02.

:w
-Patrick
 
many thanks for the informative replys. I thought the motion detectors would only probably deter vandels from slashing your top etc, but agree with all your statements. I thought the club was pretty much a waste of time as they would just cut your steering wheel.
 
gcmlear said:
many thanks for the informative replys. I thought the motion detectors would only probably deter vandels from slashing your top etc, but agree with all your statements. I thought the club was pretty much a waste of time as they would just cut your steering wheel.

stop vandals from slashing your top? for the ime it takes to run a knife thru the top and down it's length is all of about 3 seconds. nothing will really stop vandals or a professional thief.

As Patrick said, the most an alarm does is give you peace of mind - although a false one at that.

as for the club - yes, if someone wants your car bad enough they will cut your steering whee - but then why should they. It goes back to the issue of whehter it's a professional or an amateur. A professional just has to tow it anyway so the club means nothing to him.

sorry this is all so negative, but really this is the reality of car security systems and vandalism and thief.
 
BarryK said:
as for the club - yes, if someone wants your car bad enough they will cut your steering whee - but then why should they. It goes back to the issue of whehter it's a professional or an amateur. A professional just has to tow it anyway so the club means nothing to him.
I saw a program about this on TLC once.

Think about this from the thief's perspective: if you're an amateur, time is a factor. Why should you spend your time hacking through a Club or a steering wheel when you have a parking lot full of other cars that may not have a Club? The longer the job of stealing takes, the more likely you are to be seen and get caught.

If you are a professional, you won't be simply wondering into a parking lot looking for a joy ride. You have a specific type of vehicle you're looking for, probably for "chop shop" purposes. And staking out a specific vehicle and owner to determine a routine daily pattern of use is merely part of the work. I read a statistic somewhere that the average American car sits (in a garage, in a parking lot, on the street- just "sits" parked) for 20 to 22 hours per day. Determine the routine of when a car sits, generally vulnerable, for the longest undisturbed part of the day, and bring along your tow truck.

Short of having some mobile, impenetrible fortress you can park a car inside of, the only way you can be truly sure that car won't be stolen or vandalized is to not own one. Ownership just assumes certain risks, and after market theft deterrant systems fiddle around at the margins of that risk at best.

-Patrick
 

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