Question for those who built their own engines...

[Edmond]

I'm going to rebuild my motor at the end of the year and I have some questions:

How long did it take for you to build your engine? What did you build it to?

Did you slowly accumulate the parts or did you wait just until work time and get the parts?

I'm going to rebuild my old L98 and the only things I'm sure of are 383 cubic inches with a ported TPI intake.

Reason I'm asking is because I won't start work until the car goes into the garage for the winter and I'm seeing some stuff being put out on eBay that looks quite reasonable.

PS. Are there any worries with buying a used camshaft or is that something that is strictly bought new?

 

[sleepyhead]

Well, I can't offer any answers but I'll be watching this thread for possible future reference. Just out of curiosity, Edmond, how many miles do you have on the engine? Are you rebuilding it out of necessity or are you building out of a 'need for speed'?

-J.

 

[Edmond]

Well, I can't offer any answers but I'll be watching this thread for possible future reference. Just out of curiosity, Edmond, how many miles do you have on the engine? Are you rebuilding it out of necessity or are you building out of a 'need for speed'?

-J.

J.,

I have 101K on the clock. Ever since I took a ride in that Z, I've had a need for speed. I was just going to do the intake, heads and cam thing. But I figured that since I was pulling the motor for the cam, I may as well rebuild for another 16 years of driving. I didn't think the stock motor would stand up long to being run hard with the new intake, heads and cam.

I figured I may as well not half-@$$ is and do it right the first time. And if I pull the motor out to rebuild it, may as well punch it .030 over!

 

[78SilvAnniv]

As we speak...

...Kenny is in the garage adjusting the valves on my engine.

This past weekend we had two CAC memebers (JRMaroon & bobchad) drive out and assist us with assembly. I think Jeff just liked getting into an engine again and Bob was interested because I think he wants to build one for his '77.

Anyhow...we first did this project this past winter, and it took 6 months due to various factors, one of which being Kenny had some broken ribs due to a fall.
At that time, we replaced the heads and #4 piston. Turns out the new piston had deep groove oil ring while the original engine had shallow groove, so the rings we used on #4 were not working.
We also found that the intake manifold gasket had shifted (probably when we placed the manifold) and cyclinders were 'sharing' functions.

We lost a lot of oil and I parked it again after only a few weeks of driving. We just pulled the engine out last weekend; block, crank and pistons/rods were at the shop this past week and we picked everything up Friday to begin assembly.
New #4 GM piston is arriving tomorrow and we are hoping to have everything together for this weekend, but it will be close.

Anyhow, as to purchasing a used cam...I wouldn't. When we pulled my engine the second time, we took everything apart and found that my cam was bent slightly. If you are going to do a rebuild, I'd rebuild everything you can. A new cam is not very expensive considering the cost of time/labor/monies if the used cam is no good.
I had a good experience calling Crane Cams and the tech gave me great advice. I'll let you know how everything runs when we're back on the road!

We were sort of forced into making the repairs now. If I had winters like yours, we would have planned and known exactly what parts we needed and budgeted the monies for purchases every month to spread the cost out.
Buy your parts ahead of time...but KNOW what you want to build, don't change halfway through and have parts you don't need lying around.
Heidi

 

[Edmond]

Heidi,

That was enough to sway me away from a used cam. I will definitely buy new. How did you guys come to the decision on that cam?

I've got 2 choices on the heads:

buy a new pair or have the stock ones ported. I guess I won't have to make that choice until I pull them and see what kind of condition they're in. Am I thinking right?

I'm sure that I want to go with TPIS's Big Mouth, large tube runners and a ported plenum. I want to keep the TPI system because of it's ease of installation and maintenance. I've read things about the Super Ram but the installation was a pain though they do get good power.

What I desire is low end torque for everyday driving.

 

[grumpyvette]

first and BY FAR the most common mistake people make is over camming the combo for the rear gear and stall speed of the engine.

NEVER BUY A USED CAM OR LIFTERS it SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASES THE CHANCE OF PROBLEMS

AFTERMARKET CYLINDER HEADS OFFER SIGNIFICANT improvement over even ported stock heads, while the choices available are almost endless the heads in the 175-200cc range will more than likely fit your goals better than larger heads, the TRICKFLOW 23 deg and AFR195cc heads offer good value

even a PORTED TPI intake will limit air flow over 5000rpm, so match you cam to the compression and rpm range of 5000rpm and below, that generally will keep the effective duration below about 220 @.050 lift if your useing nearly stock components and intend to have good low rpm torque matching the stock gearing

pay close attention to matching your DYNAMIC COMPRESSION RATIO to the cams rpm range and the intakes effective flow range, and remember what goes in needs to go out, a LOW RESTRICTION EXHAUST AND HEADERS IS MANDATORY for good results

Id suggest you BUY AND READ books 3, 4, and 5 on the list as an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM before lifting a tool

you really should get these books and read them before going any further, it will help a good deal, while only the basic info is presented it still makes for a good knowledge base, and referance :grin:
DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR
buy these books, FIRST it will be the best money you ever spent, read them, and you will be miles ahead of the average guy. youll save thousands of dollars and thousands of hours once youve got a good basic understanding of what your trying to do!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...g=UTF8&v=glance

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books

HOW TO BUILD THE SMALL BLOCK CHEVEROLET by LARRY ATHERTON&LARRY SCHREIB
.
HOW TO BUILD MAX PERFORMANCE CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS ON A BUDGET by DAVID VIZARD

.
JOHN LINGENFELTER on modifying small-block chevy engines

how to build & modify CHEVROLET small-block V-8 CAMSHAFTS & VALVTRAINS BY DAVID VIZARD
SMOKEY YUNICK,S POWER SECRETS

SMALL BLOCK CHEVY ENGINE BUILDUPS

[
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/155...1234339-0571324

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books

 

[78SilvAnniv]

When I bought my heads, I went to a well respected and accomplished race shop in my hometown and spoke with the owner/builder about what I wanted.

He asked about my driving habits, what I liked best about driving my car and what my ultimate goal was. He also needed to know about my current engine, tranny and rear gears. From the answers I gave, he recommended a specific head. When it was installed I was very happy with the performance.

Same with the cam. Most cam companies have a tech line and they'll ask similar questions and recommend a cam that should work for your set up.

The books Grumpy listed all look to be top notch for education. We may have to check them out!
Heidi

 

[Robin7TFour]

when i rebuilt my 327 for my 68 camaro, i took the specs for a specfic motor. in that case the 327/350. i bought all my parts except the crankshaft bearings before starting. then i had the machine shop size the journals with the correct bearings.
after waiting for the engine machine work. valves done,cam bearings installed,block surface and freeze plugs installed. the actual building only took about 2 days ,doing it after work.

robin

 

[grumpyvette]

theres a HUGE DIFFERANCE BETWEEN BOLTING SOME PARTS TOGEATHER ON A BLOCK AND CORRECTLY ASSEMBLING AN ENGINE

heres a few things that should always be checked on an engine build

heads
are the pushrods perfectly strait?
do the pushrods flow oil?
rocker studs/guides torqued correctly?
do the head bolts have washers under the bolt heads? are they the correct length for the cylinder heads in use?
have the heads been pocket ported?
combustion chambers unshrouded?
intake ports gasket matched"
are the valve guides cut to the correct length?
are the heads pocket ported?
is the retainer to valve guide clearance correct?
are the valve guide oil seals installed?
is there valve spring seats installed?
inner damper springs installed?
spring bind height checked? (to exceed max valve lift by .050 min.)
oil return holes cleaned of casting flash?
were steam holes in heads necessary?
were the spark plug threads of a installed spark plug extending into the combustion chamber?
rocker slot to rocker stud clearances ?
retainer to valve guide clearances?
spring bind height checked for the correct spring pressure?
valve lash/preload ?
are the valve springs the correct tension,height?dia.
keeper the correct angle? style? size?
valve seats the correct angles?
valves back cut?
valves the correct length, stemsthe correct diam.
strait?
rockers the correct ratio?
were the valve to valve guide clearances checked?
were the heads milled?
did the head gasket overlap the bore?
what are your valve train clearances?
is the rocker arm geometry correct!
chambers CC,ed

port work..(some steps optional)

(1) open throat to 85%-90% of valve size
(2)cut a 4 angle seat with 45 degree angle .065-.075 wide where the valve seats and about .100 at 60 degrees below and a .030 wide 30 degree cut above and a 20 degree cut above that rolled and blended into the combustion chamber
(3)blend the spark plug boss slightly and lay back the combustion chamber walls near the valves
(4)narrow but dont shorten the valve guide
(5) open and straiten and blend the upper two port corner edges along the port roof
(6) gasket match to/with intake and raise the port roof slightly
(7) back cut valves at 30 degrees
( polish valve face and round outer edges slightly
(9)polish combustion chamber surface and blend edges slightly
(10) remove and smooth away all casting flash , keep the floor of the port slightly rough but the roof and walls smoothed but not polished.
(11) use a head gasket to see the max you can open the combustion chamber walls
(12) blend but don,t grind away the short side radias


block
is the oil pump pick-up mounted 3/8"-1/2" from the oil pan floor/
is the windage screen mounted about 1/8" from the rotateing assembly/
is the pick-up brazed to the pump body?
has the oil pump relief piston in the oil pump been checked for free ,easy movement? clearance? spring tension?
is the oil pump pick-up tube inserted too far into the oil pump body,(binding the gears)
has the block been clearanced for the rotating assembly?
has the block been aline honed?
is the crank strait?
are the damper install keyway and threads ok?
counter weights clearanced?
MAGNAFLUXED?
OIL PASSAGES CLEANED?
GALLERY PLUGS INSTALLED CORRECTLY?
has the cam to rod bolt clearance been checked?
piston to valve clearances checked?
piston to bore clearances?
TRUST BEARING CLEARANCE?
what were the piston ring to slot clearances?
RING GAPS?
were the rings all checked individually for end gap in the cylinders they were used/installed in?
were the rings checked to make sure the correct side faced up, and the correct ring was in each groove?
what were the back clearance on the rings?
were the oil ring expanders carefully fitted for correct drag?
were the oil ring scraper ring rails checked for end gap?
total cam lift and remaining clearanceS?
WAS THE CAM DEGREED IN?
main bearing clearances?
what is the main bearing run-out clearance
piston to head clearance? (QUENCH?)
head gasket to coolent holes checked?
magnets installed?
rod bolt to block clearances?
what tq reading is necessay to spin the crank with no rods attached?
are the rod bolts and main caps torqued correctly? (rod bolts checked with a bolt stretch gauge?)
did you check the block for a strait main cap alignment?
what size journals and what were the bearings edge to filet clearance??
are the journals checked for finish and run-out/tapper?
did you use moly lube to assemble?
correct bearing crush?
did you pre-lube before start-up?
did the distributor gear fit the cam gear precisely?
was the distributor oil flow mod done?
was the correct style distributor gear used?
did you check the piston to piston pin bores for fit and clearance?
did the piston pins to snap ring clearance seem overly tight?
if they are pressed pins were they correctly matched and checked for free movement in the pistons?
was the engine ballanced?
cam button installed?, and lock plate installed?
were the rods resized? checked for parrallel bores/were the rods strait?
piston valve clearance notchs correctly located on the pistons? edges smoothed?
were the rods checked for length?
is there a few thousands clearance on the oil pump drive shaft AFTER the distributors bolted down?
did you install a steel collar on the oil pump drive shaft?
was the rod to piston pin side clearance checked? (at 4 places seperated bye 90 degree spots)
does the oil pump drive shaft mid section clear the block with the pump installed?
whats the starter to flywheel gear clearance?
is the pilot bearing to trans imput shaft clearance ok?
is the front motor mount bolt to fuel pump pushrod clearance ok? did the fuel pump pushrod move easily/
are you possitive the pistons were installed with the correct valve relief in the correct location?(eiieeiie) were the pistons installed with the correct side facing forward/
what torque values were used on all fasteners/ were they the correct length and type bolts?
were the bores honed with a torque plate in place?
was the cylinder finish correct for the type rings used?
was the oil pump itself checked for free spin and clearance AFTER THE PICK-UP WAS INSTALLED?
was the cam drive checked for free rotation and drag/
were the oil passage plugs drilled for extra oil flow?
were the lifter bores checked?
cam to timing cover clearance?
cam journal to cam bearing clearances?
was the cam journal run-out checked?
was the cam degreed in or just lined up useing factiory index marks?
has the rod and windage screen to oilpan clearnce been checked?
does the dipstick & tube clear the windage screen?
was the cam lobes/LSA/LIFT CHECKED?
is the deck square/level?
whats the cross hatch hone angle?
what grit hone was used?
are all the threads clean/clear?
brass freeze plugs installed?
block painted?

 

[warren s]

Great post Grumpyvette !!!

Have to print and keep that. The last engines I built were Pontiac 455s. Way fewer choices on all parts but the basics still apply.

 

[SPANISHVETTS]

Well Grumpy said it all and it looks like He and I are sharing the same bookshelf.



With all of the parts in stock, the machine work finished and the rotating mass balanced you could build a SBC in a day but why would you want to? The enjoyment of installing each component, double checking the tolerances, yet another pass around every bolt with the torque wrench, triple checking the ring gap, etc., etc. should be spread over at least a week! From the day you pull the first nut out of the engine compartment until you start the beast up with the new 383 will probably take 2 months. Remember double all of you time estimates and triple your cost estimate.



Find a machine shop that is well known for its 383 blocks. Even though it is a fairly simple process the difference between boring the cylinders .030 and machining a proper 383 block are worlds apart. I have yet to find a machine shop in Spain that knows what a torqueplate is, much less use one. That is why we send the blocks to Germany for machine work.



I got the BigMouth base and tubes on eBay for less than ½ price. You will need a 52mm throttle body as well. Start shopping now you will save big $.

 

[Edmond]

I do plan on having the shop assemble the short block for me. I'm going to ask my neighbor what shop he uses. He buys and rebuilds 68-69 Camaro's and has a killer 69 in his garage right now.


He suggested that I buy a low mileage engine, swap out the cam and heads and be done with it. He said that would be an easy way.

There is almost no time limit to when I have to finish. I'll start in late December and finish whenever I do. The cost of the parts can be spread out from now until the completion of the project.

SPANISHVETTS,

That is my plan, to buy parts now. I have ideas on what I want to do and a few things are certain. I haven't bought anything yet so I'm still open to many ideas.

The car has to pass Illinois emissions so I can't be too radical. I would like 3.73 gears and I'll be using the stock sized 275 40ZR 17 wheels all the way around. I'm definitely getting headers, thought I haven't decided on which brand.

 

[clasvette]

Never, Never use a used camshaft..Always buy new.

 

[MaineShark]

But I figured that since I was pulling the motor for the cam...

Just a side-question for the C4 people: is it necessary to pull whole block out to change the cam, in your cars? In the C3, all you need to do is remove the radiator and hood.

Joe

 

[SPANISHVETTS]

Just a side-question for the C4 people: is it necessary to pull whole block out to change the cam, in your cars? In the C3, all you need to do is remove the radiator and hood.

Joe

No Joe, You can do everything except the bottom end and boring with the block in place.

 

[grumpyvette]

one of the best hp per dollar cams I can suggest for a mild 350 or 383 build using the STOCK rear gearing, TPI intake and stall speed is the CRANE 114132

it requires no mods to the ECU or sensors, passes emission testing and adds about 35 hp over the stock TPI cam in a similar engine

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=114132&lvl=2&prt=5

AND NO! you DON,T NEED THE 3.73 rear gear!, yeah it helps but it runs fine with stock gearing