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Question re: lowering

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Gman

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I did a search but couldn't find a good answer to my question. I want to lower the rear of my LT4 about an inch w/longer spring bolts. Will lowering the rear only cause the front to raise? I lowered my previous C4 but did front and rear. I don't want to lower the front on this car because I prefer the clearance. Thanks in advance!
 
If you only lower the rear, it will not raise the front; the front will remain as it was. I tried it but didn't like the look.

071404_01.JPG

I put mine back to stock height.
 
Gman said:
I want to lower the rear of my LT4 about an inch w/longer spring bolts. Will lowering the rear only cause the front to raise?
No, as Ken stated, but an inch might be more than you like the appearance of. The good news is that you can adjust it to suit.

My car is down about 3/4" all around, and looks great; as it should.
 
Before (stock):

08_crop_320.JPG

After (lowered 1"):
02_crop.JPG

After (stock - current):
DSCF0007_4in.JPG
My headers (longtubes) aren't this issue for me that prevents me from lowering it - my Lakewood bellhousing hangs lower than the headers. That's my major concern; I've bumped it a few times and I don't like that feeling. :(
 
Thanks for the responses and thanks for the pics, Ken! I do like the look of your car lowered. Gives it a more aggressive look, IMO. I'll probably only bring it down 3/4" as a full inch looks like a bit too much.
 
Just lowering the rear will 'upset' the aero balance some. Can't say just how much but it will reduce rear down force and may create lift at the rear. Take care when making top speed runs with the rear lowered.
 
Tuna said:
Just lowering the rear will 'upset' the aero balance some. Can't say just how much but it will reduce rear down force and may create lift at the rear. Take care when making top speed runs with the rear lowered.

This doesn't make any sense to me. First of all, you'd have to be driving three hundred miles an hour to cause enough lift to lose control of the car. I always laugh whenever I'm behind a crossfire or a porsche or some other car that has a speed-sensitive spoiler on the back that pops up at forty miles per hour to keep the car from losing control and hitting a tree. The effect of lift is greatly exaggerated by car companies, I suspect so that they can sell more optional rear spoilers. The myth of controllable lift is akin to the myth of additional horsepower from a K&N air filter. If lift were really a problem, and if it could be controlled simply by not lowering the car or installing spoilers, then every car would already come with a spoiler to ensure that the car stays on the road instead of hitting a tree. If lift were really a problem, then all of the ungainly and unaerodynamic Volkswagen Things from decades ago would have left the road and hit trees due to wind buffeting and lift (instead, they have happily rusted into oblivion). Cars are heavy enough that lift isn't a problem unless you're driving three hundred miles an hour, I'd say the bigger issues are adequate suspension components and the car's ability to deal with lateral forces.
 
i do agree with you somewhat, of course its gonna take some crazy speed to completely lose control of a car. but it doesn't take 4000 lbs of "lift" to cause your vehicle to lose traction. the car will behave differently at higher speeds, there's simply less downforce. straight line you'll probably be ok but taking 100 mph+ curves would only logically result in directly varying oversteer.
 
You guys pay any attention to Nascar ???? They talk about aero at 125mph. Tell you anything?
 
In drag racing as well, they talk about the tremedous downforce exerted by the rear wing, even at very low speeds. Of course, that's a helluva wing, but even the front wing exerts a lot of pressure.

You guys ever see the one where, who was it - Cory Mac, lost a wing at launch, so he couldn't have been going more than fifty feet or so, meaning he wasn't traveling more than a hundred miles an hour or so (Top Fuel remember ;)). He lost all control of the dragster and crashed big time.

Look at the Outlaw Sprint cars too. Huge billboards!

Wings, and their design, have a great effect of a car's handling. ;)
 
Ken, you know I am not much into drags and stuff. But I like the looks of a higher rear than the stock. If I look at the car from the side, rear and front of the car looks the same height. I like the looks of a car that is sort of mean, sort of "ready to charge"... A higher rear gives me that impression. How much higher can a C4 rear go up (from stock measurement) without hurting anything else, and is that a simple thing to do?

Cheers,

Selim
 
Just to give an insight into how much affect a wing has...

An aircraft carrier launches a fighter at approx 160-170 mph, and this vehicle weighs about 45,000 lbs, hmmmm alot of lift at not much speed for a heavy obect.

Think of sticking your hand out the car window at 60mph and how much you can change the lifting or downforce affect, then try it at slower speeds.

Now use something that is built for aerodynamics.... Kind of makes ya think eh Tyrel.

Those wings you mention have an effect, hey NASCAR just stiffened the rear spoiler to slow things down yet again, and all they did was make the spoiler stiffer by making it less forgiving therefore adding more downforce and drag and slowing things down.

What's the piont of a race if they keep slowing them down anyway (Just my little NASCAR rant)
 
I have similar experience with Mart. I have travelled both with wide body Airbus and also Boeing 777 a lot of times. I always watch the on-board displays showing altitude, temperature, air speed, etc. In average I read 270- 280 kmh during take off (now that would be slightly over 150 - 160 mph for a fully loaded passanger aircraft) with some 400 people and full fuel tanks; I am assuming this is like 250 - 300 tons... So, does anyone have any comments on aerodynamic effect of a wing?

Remember folks if it were only to the jet engines, the aircraft would move only forward like a missile. It is the wings that make it take off into the sky.

Well lets be more scientific about this. Assume two particles of air, one moving from above the air foil (cross section of the wing in an airplane) towards rear of the wing, and one moving from below. Since speed of the airplane is a constant both particles will move across the wing at the same amount of time. Above the airfoil is curved, particle moving above the wing will have to move faster than the moving below. Now what does that do??? A higher pressure is caused below the wing with respect to above (relationship between speed & pressure is analogous to speed & torque). It is this air pressure differential between the wing upper & lower surfaces that causes the air planes to take off. Although I have not been close to an automotive rear wing, I can easily comment that lower portion should be curved and upper portion should be smoother. Car wings should have inverse geometry to airplanes. One makes it fly and the other stops it from flying.

Cheers,

Selim
 
One thing car companies do is compromise on design - down force versus drag is one such area. The C4, C5 and C6 are all about compromise - compromise between drag, gas mileage, and handling. GM does a lot of wind tunnel testing - more now than ever - just to get the lowest drag coefficient and a reasonable amount of downforce. Makes the car better balanced through out its speed range and saves gas. GM and Chevy are big on not paying a gas guzzler charge on the Vette.

All I'm trying to do is to make people think about the consequences of their aero-related mods and how they may affect their driving. It can and does make a difference.

I'm not totally clueless on aero either as I do have a degree in Aero-Engineering from Louisiana Tech University. I take aero stuff pretty seriously.
 
LOL, Tyrel; a guy like me who has dumped on ad claims (myths)! Careful, the myth promoters will get ya!

Assymetric aircraft wings generate lift because of Bernoulli's Principle, the first part stated from our Turkish associate. The upper-wing air moves faster, therefore has less pressure (think of a perfume atomizer 'sucking' the smelly juice up). {That, there, is REAL technical talk.} Actually, the 'juice' is pushed up by the atmosphere's higher pressure, relative to the blowing air's lower pressure. The same pressure differential lifts aircraft at speed. (Sucking, BTW, is related to negative pressure,which has never been demonstrated; therefore must be another myth. LOL)

Sufficient airspeed to lift the craft is dependant upon the lifting characteristics of the wing and the aircraft weight. High lift devices, whether leading edge and/or trailing edge (devices) flaps, allow for slower flight speeds.

The lift produced is a mathematical product of a (test engineering derived) coefficient of lift, the size of the wing, air density, angle of attack, and the airspeed. Near-ground operations involve changing the shape and the size of the wings. High lift devices increase wing area and change the camber of the wing, which increases angle of attack, plus change the coefficient of lift with the 'new' wing shape. All of these increase lift, allowing for slower speeds for any given weight; safer, for many reasons.

How this applies to cars: the dirt guys use HUGE wings, which are effective at the lower speeds. NASCAR is very competitive, and teams must look for every tiny edge, whether the airflow characteristics improve downforce (cornering) or reduce drag, allowing more speed from the same power. Ricers and some others use wings as some kind of statement. I do recall my '63 split and many C-3's getting light 'up front' above 100mph. The balance point is sufficient downforce or the design speed while minimizing drag. ALL lift, whether positive, in the aircraft case, or negative in 'ours', produces drag; it is a byproduct, using the same equation, with a different coefficient (of drag).

The speed where any aero device is effective, relates to its size and shape. Car (and aftermarket product) sellers approach these items with differing levels of scientific support, PLUS looks that sell.

Some race cars looked somewhat like inverted wings. One even used fans to extract air (reduced pressure=more down-lift) from under the car. It was quickly banned. Most manufacturers are smoothing the undersides of cars to reduce drag (better CAFE) at highway speeds.

I can attest to the low pressure behind the windscreen of my BMW R1100RS trying to suck my helmut off, at speeds above 130. I doubt that most of us will feel much difference in lowering (or not) the rear of our Corvette by the amounts discussed unless and until we chase Moon across Nevada on his next race.
:w
 
Well said Whalepirot, as for the whole speed and aerodynamics thing, if it was not a factor until 300+ mph as Tyrel stated, then someone should tell these guys, after all they must be wasting thier time on the whole earo concept.

And these guys travel at an average speed of 50mph.
unveiling03.gif


Does this thing look a little like a wing, Hmmmmmm yup. These guys want the reverse of what we do.

Mart
 
Wow, this really turned into an interesting and informative conversation! :upthumbs

I do have another question regarding lowering. After the install of the new spring bolts, can I adjust ride height with the car on the ground? Thanks!!
 
I don't see why not, as long as you don't take it to extremes and affect the alignment.
 
Gman said:
After the install of the new spring bolts, can I adjust ride height with the car on the ground?
Sure, you should be able to reach the nuts and bolts. Any adjustment will likely affect the alignment to some degree. In any event, you will want to drive the car a short distance to settle the suspension and then look to see if you have your 'look'.

I'd save the alignment expense until after you install the bolts and get the height where you want it.
 

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