R134A conversion question

[90coupe]

Hi Guys!

It's finally getting warmer here in Minnesota and my R134A conversion kit arrived from Zip. I have a '90 so it has factory R12. Before I start, any tips or suggestions from anyone who has done this? Seems pretty straight forward but time will tell.

Thanks!
Ron

 

[MBDiagMan]

I'm not familiar with the particular "kit" that you mentioned. If it has fittings, and oil, then it won't hurt anything if you follow a lot of other procedures and have the right equipment to do the job.

If it is as many kits with a hose and a can of snake oil and some 134, these are called DEATH KITS! Not your death, but the death of the a/c.

R12 is coming down in price and is ALWAYS your best approach. If you INSIST on converting, you must RECOVER the existing refrigerant, put in Ester oil, thoroughly evacuate and then charge with 134. This is a MINIMUM approach.

To really do it right, you flush the entire system, pour out as much oil as you can from the compressor, replace the accumulator, replace the orifice tube with the correct one, put in Ester oil, thoroughly evacuate and charge.

When you go to 134, you lose about 15% of your a/c's capacity. Some cars won't tolerate this, they just don't have the reserve capacity. In your case, you don't live in a hot climate and the Vette a/c has plenty of capacity anyway.

I converted my '88 a few years back when R12 was still very expensive and it worked out well for me. I did not, however, use a death kit.

Best of luck,

 

[MBDiagMan]

I'm sorry to take issue, but I am vehemently opposed to these alternate refrigerants in motor vehicles for many reasons.

To begin with I have two recovery machines and do not yet have a refrigerant identifier. Every time someone puts this junk in a car a/c they risk some poor guy down the line contaminating a cylinder full of refrigerant and it might be mine.

Secondly most all the alternates are either blends or flammables. The blends are a pain because they leak at different rates and to properly recharge after a leak they must be emptied, evacuated and recharged from scratch.

The con against the flammables is OBVIOUS. They are illegal in 18 states.

I strongly urge that you stick with R12 or PROPERLY convert AND label for 134. Leave the snake oil refrigerants for the less informed.

My $0.02,

 

[drags1998]

Not sure why you want to convert,If its just price,DONT DO IT!!! Its not worth it!!! Search out your problem & fix it. If you have a componant failure,Repair it,and recharge with R-12 Just my .02

 

[MBDiagMan]

I was not referring to 416 as snake oil. I was referring to Hot Shot, Freeze 12, Dura Cool, etc., etc.,

IF everyone properly labeled as you do, I wouldn't have near the problem with this stuff.

In a MOTOR VEHICLE I strongly urge that folks stay with the original refrigerant. If they feel that they MUST save $40 or $50 on refrigerant PLEASE PROPERLY label the system.

The strange thing about the whole phenomenon of alternate refrigerants is that so many people spend SO much money and SO much trouble to save on their refrigerant. I have seen MANY examples of people spending much more money to convert to a different refrigerant, that they could have simply repaired their leak and bought R12 and saved money in the process.

This phenomenon reminds me alot of the seventies when the oil embargos drove up gas prices. People paniced so much that they would go trade in a paid for car for a new car that maybe used 20% less fuel and took on a payment. They would have saved a LOT of money just staying with the car they had and pay the difference in fuel cost.

There are just many things in which so many people can't see the forest for the trees.

If you decide to change to an alternate refrigerant PLEASE properly label. If for no other reason, you are violating Federal law if you don't. Us folks with recovery equipment also thank you for doing so.

The other thing is PLEASE don't use sealants in your a/c. In many cases this junk will completely destroy your a/c system as well as the unsuspecting techs recovery machine.

Have a great day,

 

[MBDiagMan]

Yes, without proper equipment and supplies to work with, finding leaks can be a challenge and often is even WITH all the stuff.

I use UV dye and a black light typically, but also a sniffer. What I want to next is get a nitrogen bottle and regulator to pressurize a small amount of R22 for chasing leaks. R22 shows up easier with a sniffer and using 2 oz. for chasing leaks and then releasing it is acceptable by the EPA. They figure it's better to have 2 oz. of R22 in the atmosphere than a leaking R12 system.

I think for the guy chasing a leak at home, UV dye is their best bet.

Have a great day,

 

[84Stock]

I did a 134 conversion on my '84 and found it to be a relatively uneventful and painless experience. A new compressor and kit cost about $140 and flushing etc. was no big deal. What is the controversy?

Regards,
GFD

 

[BigRed]

When I do the "full meal deal" conversion I like to pull everything apart throughly clean it out with a quick dry cleaner.

Then I replace the drier. The sponges in there are nearly impossible to "flush" out and you really are better off replacing it.

Then I yank the compressor and clean it the same way. Your going to get all the old oil out plus debris from wear and tear.

Third and SO many people don't do this why I don't know is CLEAN the evaporator and condensor. I'd say about 20 percent of poor A/C is the result of one of these being plugged. Either its not cold enough because air is not cooling the freeon (bringing the gas to liquid) or the fan motor is working over time to push air through a plugged screen

Next ya the orfice tube...If its not being converted to gas it ain't working.

Part of a A/C kit should include the full assortment of "O-rings" to complete this procedure.

It can be done yourself!!!! To many people are scared of A/C if it is empty just do it if its not have it evacuated then pull it apart and YOU can be the judge on how clean everything is (Im my own worst critic). After you've installed everything with lubricated rings just have a shop vaccum and charge the system.

Should not take more than a day on the average car. I don't think Vette is any different. Im doing mine this year as well but unfortunatly Im having to replace nearly everything. If you follow steps like these R-134 will work awsome. My temp average with it is 36-41 degrees.

Good luck

 

[84Stock]

Agree:134 Conversion is cool

I agree with Bigred. The conversion on my '84 was NOT a big deal, if you are handy and ready to tackle the job. Don't get in a hurry, but why would you want to afterall, this is a Corvette. New dryer, orifice tube, lubricant etc. but be gentle with those hoses because they have soft fittings and are just dying to gall if mis-threaded!

Vaccuming down and recharging did highlight one thing though: My '84 has only the single electric radiator fan, which would not activate until around 215 degF. Without good airflow in idle, the ac would not cool and balance the freon input/output gages during charging. A box fan in the garage proved to be the secret to properly charging and testing the system. later, I installed a simple relay from Radio Shack to activate the fan whenever the ac was turned on, which keeps the cabin cool all the time, even in Houston!

Secondary fans available as aftermarket items do this as well I understand, an these fans are standard on later years?

Regards,
GFD

 

[BigRed]

I kicked it up a notch on my wifes truck LOL

I hooked up my RobinAir recycler/recharger to the truck and pulled out about a half a pound. So its not leaking TO bad Im thinking and can pbly get away with just a recharge.

So I pulled out her freeon then vaccumed to 30 inches of mercury then read the sticker for freeon amounts...

Says 26 Oz's

Im metric now so Im thinking go ask someone they say its like 1.75 pounds....

That sucks and on a 318 Grand Cherokee that REALLY sucks considering the size of the unit.

So I dumped in 2 even

Hhehehhehe

35 degrees!!! It holds and I didn't blow the compressor the output line is frosty but thats cool. I tested it a great deal and no problems what so ever.

Guess I can get away pushing the limits on my OWN cars hehe.

 

[Robertwav1]

Do be careful with the 134a. Although 12 is not enviorment friendly...it's not dangerous unless it's exposed to flame. 134a is toxic....do not breathe it in! I got a small dose of it once...not a good thing. Also...if it aint refrigerant and it aint oil, it don't belong. Use the oil in the refrigerant as a leak detector...it's the same as dye. The guy that puts his gauges on your car will appreciate it.

 

[vettin1]

Some have posted the opinion that R-12 is best to stay with if you can. My question is where to get R-12. The only reason why I am thinking about converting is because I can't find any R-12. I am in NYC which probably makes this harder. Anyone know where to get R-12???

 

[Tom73]

My question is where to get R-12.

You have to have an EPA license/permit to buy R-12. With that you should be able to get the R-12 from most any auto supply house. But you may have to buy a 30 lb cylinder. The license can be had on line for about $20-$25, on-line open book test.

tom...

 

[grapeknutz]

The biggest problem I see is that the compressor oils are NOT compatible and will turn any moisture in the system into acid and cause all kinds of havoc. To remove ALL of the oil and convert to 134a you need to remove all the componets in the system and remove any trace of oil from the old system.