Sea Foam Review

[TODD L GRIFFITH]

Do you really have to change the oil after the treatment?

I figured you dont need to if the stuff is already getting burned anyways? :confused

True Vettepirate. The Sea Foam used in the crankcase reduces the moisture in the oil. Sea Foam in the crank case works great if you store your car for the winter. I do a treatment every two oil changes as scheduled maintenence.

 

[TODD L GRIFFITH]

hnoes If not they should send him a paycheck!

I personally have never tried the stuff. Yet.:confused

Just a great product cj5. I introduce Sea Foam to alot of people, because it works great. A friend of mine has a Mercedes SUV. We decarbed his and went for a ride. He nailed the throttle and almost caused an accident behind us with all the smoke out the back. Make sure you find a remote location, lesson learned :L

 

[c4c5specialist]

HI there,
Anybody ever wonder why there is noone reseting fuel trim tables because the seafoam causes the tables to go full lean, so that the PCM compensates over time by ADDING fuel?
When any decarb is done, there is an automatic jump in the fuel tables.
This is one reason why there is such a perceived 'power increase'.
When any cleaning and decarbonization is done, the fuel trims MUST be reset to avoid the massive changes in fuel tables and INCREASED fuel input.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[AColbe01]

Reset The Tables?



Do we disconnect the battery for a period of time, some hidden option in DIC or will the table be updated with driving?

Thanks,

Andy

 

[c4c5specialist]

Normally, Tech 2 is the only option.
I have heard, although I have never confirmed it, that other scan tools and monitors can do it.
Also, yes, as you drive, the PCM will compensate and it does take a little time.
And the solution must SIT at least 8 hours in the cylinders to do ANY carbon breakdown. Then, after running the vehicle, the excessive smoke creates the fuel trim issues and the seepage contaminates/dilutes the OIL, so you must do an oil change.
The 3 reasons why you should need to do an engine decarbonization are as follows. Engine detonation or spark knock, excessive oxides of nitrogen emissions or in the case of Gen 3 small block from 1997 -2001, cold start piston slap.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[Hib Halverson]

HI there,
Anybody ever wonder why there is noone reseting fuel trim tables because the seafoam causes the tables to go full lean, so that the PCM compensates over time by ADDING fuel?
When any decarb is done, there is an automatic jump in the fuel tables.
This is one reason why there is such a perceived 'power increase'.
When any cleaning and decarbonization is done, the fuel trims MUST be reset to avoid the massive changes in fuel tables and INCREASED fuel input.
Allthebest, c4c5

First, I'm giving c4c5 Specialist a Beacon of Reality Award.

In a short graph, he's explained why you can "Sea Foam" an engine then feel a performance increase. Understand that Sea Foam is most likely formulated to do exactly that.

What would be interesting is to bore scope a motor that has just been "Sea Foamed" to see if it actually "decarbonizes" the chambers.

Secondly, c4c5 Specialist is correct. The only way to force reset of the fuel trims is with a high-end, hardware-based tester capable of bidirectional communication, such at the T2 or the MasterTech. Also, the software-based, EASE scan test package for PCs is said to be able to reset fuel trim values.

 

[AColbe01]

Had noticed on a few other sites about having an assistant turn off the engine just as the last bit of SF is being sucked into the manifold , then allowing the vehicle to sit overnite and that another round may be needed for heavily carbonized engines. Not sure if they were implying, nightly till no smoke.


Will be doing the SF thing soon, currently have a P0327 / #1 Knock Sensor code. Want to have as idling as smooth as possible, have yet to find the KS sensors to check the ohms. Debating whether or not to replace the Oil Pressure Sensor at the same time.

Thanks For The "World Class" Help.



Andy

 

[TODD L GRIFFITH]

Thanks c4c5 for bringing up the fuel trims. I never noticed a performance increase, although I have noticed a better sounding idle in terms of clarity and engine running smoothness. The fuel trims issue is interesting and I never realized that they were affected. Thanks for the insight. Do you mean the fuel trims reset by driving 50-200 miles? It will take some time to reset, or change the fuel tables?? Let me know. Anyone displaying a DIC code should not be using Sea Foam hoping to clear a code. All DIC codes should be addressed with a replacement of the sensors as needed depending on the code as they normally would be. Sea Foam does not perform that kind of magic. We got lucky the other day for a little while with my friends daughters car long enough to get it to pass inspection, but the check engine came back on soon after and we replaced the O2 and IAT sensors based on the codes that were displayed. I imagine we had enough key strokes without a misfire to shut the light off for alittle while. If it was running lean after the treatment, the O2 may have been putting out alot less than .450mv to shut the light off also I assume. Who knows, it was surprising to me just the same.

 

[c4c5specialist]

Thanks c4c5 for bringing up the fuel trims. I never noticed a performance increase, although I have noticed a better sounding idle in terms of clarity and engine running smoothness. The fuel trims issue is interesting and I never realized that they were affected. Thanks for the insight. Do you mean the fuel trims reset by driving 50-200 miles? It will take some time to reset, or change the fuel tables?? Let me know. Anyone displaying a DIC code should not be using Sea Foam hoping to clear a code. All DIC codes should be addressed with a replacement of the sensors as needed depending on the code as they normally would be. Sea Foam does not perform that kind of magic. We got lucky the other day for a little while with my friends daughters car long enough to get it to pass inspection, but the check engine came back on soon after and we replaced the O2 and IAT sensors based on the codes that were displayed. I imagine we had enough key strokes without a misfire to shut the light off for alittle while. If it was running lean after the treatment, the O2 may have been putting out alot less than .450mv to shut the light off also I assume. Who knows, it was surprising to me just the same.

Hi Todd,
Plainly, this applies to ALL decarbonization treatments, NOT only Seafoam.
So lets be clear from the beginning.
Any decarbonizing treatments, meaning substances flushed into a running engine, will change fuel trims.
Even GM 1050002, which is what we use in the dealership, creates massive fuel trim changes. This is because your introducing, in most cases, EXTREMELY COMPLEX HYDROCARBONS and alcohols. In truth, these chemicals are showing up in the o2 sensor readings by changing the oxygen content after burning from what would normally be in the exhaust stream when burning only fuel alone.
Normally, because of the changes in the exhaust gases, your fuel trims will negative to the point of exteme lean so that the PCM, AFTER the decarb, is introducing so much fuel, you get the 'perceived power increase or idle smoothness.'
After driving for a while, and there is NO actual timeline because fuel formulations and driving styles differ, the PCM will start to correct and compensate ACCURATELY for actual engine running conditions.
There is NOT 2 vehicles of the same model, that run equally. So many variables exist that theory on results is moot.
But, fact remains, you introduce hydrocarbons and the PCM see it and tried to compensate.
When we decarb at the dealership, we do NOT flush it through the PCV, we feed 3 oz into each cylinder through the spark plug hole and let it sit.
Turn over the vehicle the next day with the plugs out to flush out the excess, then reinstall the plugs and start the engine.
Run for 2 minutes OUTSIDE, then change the oil and take for road test and only AFTER we return, do we reset fuel trims to baseline.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[TODD L GRIFFITH]

Thanks for the information. Basically my problem with the older LS6's has been the PCV valve and oil in the intake issue. My reason for adding through the PCV and break booster vacuum line to keep the intake, heads and chambers clean. The PCV's seems to have been modified quite a bit through the years until I heard that they have been eliminated all together. I've never checked some of the 04's to see what was actually done. You may be able to shed some light on the differences. What do you think about using the oil catch cans to resolve this problem and what disadvantages do you see if any? Thanks.

 

[c4c5specialist]

HI there,
I recently did a 2 week experiment, by which I monitored PCV/crankcase pressures over rpm ranges from 1000-5000 rpm. Now, I covered L83, L98, LT1, LT4, LS1, LS6 and LS2.
In every single case, when the engines were above 3000 rpm, pressures of .5 to .75 psi were seen at the PCV valve, depending on the engine.
This shows the theory that the PCV valve is creating a restriction as the higher rpms prevail. This is NORMAL>
When this pressure is achieved, the excess must be pushed through the fresh air intake side of the system. So, based on the actual position of the fresh air intake, will depend on if you SEE the oil vapor condense and a film inside your air intake/throttle body.
Modified PCV systems are done to accomodate a variety of driving conditions, including fixed orifice like you see now in LS2/3.
It is STILL a PCV system, only now, changes are made to assist in oil vapor control at higher rpm usage.
A simple way to keep excess oil vapor from becoming a condition is to add a bottle of Techron plus at every oil change or more frequently if needed.
BG44K may be used if Techron is NOT as effective as you would like. 44K is a better decarbonization additive that is put in the fuel tank.
Modifications of the PCV system are not recommended because in some instances, they simply increase the crankcase pressures and create other issues.
As the engines in todays cars live higher and higher in the RPM range, more and more PCV conditions arise.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[Hib Halverson]

HI there,
I recently did a 2 week experiment, by which I monitored PCV/crankcase pressures over rpm ranges from 1000-5000 rpm. Now, I covered L83, L98, LT1, LT4, LS1, LS6 and LS2.
In every single case, when the engines were above 3000 rpm, pressures of .5 to .75 psi were seen at the PCV valve, depending on the engine.
This shows the theory that the PCV valve is creating a restriction as the higher rpms prevail. This is NORMAL>
When this pressure is achieved, the excess must be pushed through the fresh air intake side of the system. So, based on the actual position of the fresh air intake, will depend on if you SEE the oil vapor condense and a film inside your air intake/throttle body.
Modified PCV systems are done to accomodate a variety of driving conditions, including fixed orifice like you see now in LS2/3.
It is STILL a PCV system, only now, changes are made to assist in oil vapor control at higher rpm usage.
A simple way to keep excess oil vapor from becoming a condition is to add a bottle of Techron plus at every oil change or more frequently if needed.
BG44K may be used if Techron is NOT as effective as you would like. 44K is a better decarbonization additive that is put in the fuel tank.
Modifications of the PCV system are not recommended because in some instances, they simply increase the crankcase pressures and create other issues.
As the engines in todays cars live higher and higher in the RPM range, more and more PCV conditions arise.
Allthebest, c4c5

It's generally accepted, at least among engineers who design and develop the crankcase ventilation systems on modern engines, that airflow though the PCV at high rpm and low MAP reverses. That's why, even with an engine in excellent condition, you get a little oil film present in the intake and the throttle body. That's also why, for MY05 and the Gen 4s introduction, GM made significant changes to the air/oil separation. That's also why Gen 4s have less of a problem with this than the Gen 3s.

There is additional information on this in an article here on the CAC at:
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c6/2005/sequel6.html

Another good fuel additive which may help reduce intake oil residue is Red Line Complete Fuel System Cleaner which is very similar to "Techron" in both formulation and results.

 

[TODD L GRIFFITH]

HI there,
I recently did a 2 week experiment, by which I monitored PCV/crankcase pressures over rpm ranges from 1000-5000 rpm. Now, I covered L83, L98, LT1, LT4, LS1, LS6 and LS2.
In every single case, when the engines were above 3000 rpm, pressures of .5 to .75 psi were seen at the PCV valve, depending on the engine.
This shows the theory that the PCV valve is creating a restriction as the higher rpms prevail. This is NORMAL>
When this pressure is achieved, the excess must be pushed through the fresh air intake side of the system. So, based on the actual position of the fresh air intake, will depend on if you SEE the oil vapor condense and a film inside your air intake/throttle body.

Allthebest, c4c5

I just wanted to comment on something additional I've noticed. I purchased an oil catch can with clear inlet and outlet tubes. It wasn't on purpose, just the way it came as luck would have it. At cold engine start up, I can see oil being drawn into the catch can from the valley tube to the inlet of the catch can at idle when vacuum is highest. I was hoping that you may experiment with some clear tubing to confirm these results and on the other engines as well. This would be very interesting and greatly appreciated. Also, a mix of oil and fuel will reduce the octane content of the fuel, adding an additional twist to the situation even though it may be residual at higher rpm's and may cause a negetive effect, especially if you are running higher compression. It makes an interesting article in my opinion depending on your results. I was hoping to catch you at Carlisle, because Heavy Duty and I were interested in talking to you about this very subject and value your opinion.

 

[Edmond]

Another good fuel additive which may help reduce intake oil residue is Red Line Complete Fuel System Cleaner which is very similar to "Techron" in both formulation and results.

Hib,

Is the Red Line Complete Fuel System Cleaner a "pour contents into a tank of gas" product or is it more involved?

 

[c4c5specialist]

HI there,
Absolutely, you might see a bit of oil actually.
The vapors from a hot running engine will condense, and when you start cold, you may see a little.
Although, normally, maybe less then a quarter of an ounce.
Sorry we missed each other at Carlisle, hopefully next year, I will be able to do a vendor space and do some on site diagnostics.
Allthebest, c4c5

 

[03WhiteConv]

PCV Question?

There is a fuel system cleaner/decarbonizer called Sea Foam. I used it today to clean my intake, valves and combustion chambers. The stuff works awesome. It can be found at your local Autozone. Here are the directions for use. Start the car and wait for it to get up to operating temperature. With the car running at operating temp., remove the tube from the other side of the PCV valve and insert the Sea Foam in the tube, letting vacuum suck the Sea Foam into the cylinders. After 1/3 of a pint has been used, shut the car off and wait 5-10 minutes.

Todd,

I just replaced the PCV last night and was thinking of running some Sea Foam through. Are you drawing the Sea Foam through the PCV itself or just through the tube? I was thinking you're talking about the tube that connects near the throttle body? This is my first vette and I haven't had to touch the car before now. 2003 white convertible, white top, torch interior, bone stock.

 

[TODD L GRIFFITH]

Todd,

I just replaced the PCV last night and was thinking of running some Sea Foam through. Are you drawing the Sea Foam through the PCV itself or just through the tube? I was thinking you're talking about the tube that connects near the throttle body? This is my first vette and I haven't had to touch the car before now. 2003 white convertible, white top, torch interior, bone stock.

Yes, you can administer half of 1/3 of a can at the throttlebody side of the PVC valve, and the other half at the power brake booster vacuum line, just remove and pour in. This gives you good cleaning coverage up front and to the rear of the intake. I like that white on red, very sharp.

 

[03WhiteConv]

Thanks for the quick reply, I'll give it a go this weekend. I love the color too, although I was never a fan of white before. I wanted something that was not too common in '03. Only 214 white tops made that year. I've searched all over the internet and haven't found another 03 like it. Sure would like the Z though, I bet that's a real kick in the pants ride...

 

[TODD L GRIFFITH]

Thanks for the quick reply, I'll give it a go this weekend. I love the color too, although I was never a fan of white before. I wanted something that was not too common in '03. Only 214 white tops made that year. I've searched all over the internet and haven't found another 03 like it. Sure would like the Z though, I bet that's a real kick in the pants ride...

Yes, the Z is alot of fun, but you can easily eclipes the power with what you already have, for basically short money. The problem is your snowball will grow and grow in your quest for power. I should know, seeing I'm addicted, or have been afflicted lol! I hate to see Vette owners waste their money on mods. that don't really work, and focus on what does. It would have saved me alot of money, knowing what I know now.

 

[03WhiteConv]

Right now I think I want to keep it basically stock, I might throw in a K&N in the stock box (mostly so I dont have to buy filters...laziness) and then just keep it running like a top. I'm not really a racer, and it's plenty fun around town. I'd rather be driving it than working on it. Thankfully we dont get snow or much rain here so it's a daily driver. I know many of these cars never see the weather extremes but these things were made to be driven and enjoyed. Also noticed all the vette drivers waving at each other around here, friendly crowd, I like it...

Any thoughts on brakes? Mine are squeeling. trying to decide if I just go with the stock replacement pads or swap out for aftermarket rotor pad combo. Again just normal, aggressive around town driving. I kinda lean to a oem replacement unless I could find a low dust alternative.