Service Manuals and/or OBDII reader?

[C64EVER]

Folks...I have a overheating problem with my 2009 Callaway modified Corvette. 5,300 miles since new, no other problems since it was delivered to my driveway in early 2010. The engine fan stopped running, under any operating condition. Overheats quickly at idle, cools when moving at speed. Checked previous threads...yes, I've checked the fuse block, that's not it. Thermostat? Relay? Wiring?

Two general recommendations seem to be: 1) follow a flowchart in the service manual and/or 2) connect a OBDII reader to diagnose the problem.

Question about the manuals, I checked online, the manuals seem to be in the $200+ range for a set of four. Is that the only option? Has anyone scanned them and offer them on CD?

Question about the OBDII reader, what is considered to be the best reader...good for more than this one problem?

Thanks in advance for your assistance...

Looking forward...Chris

 

[Hib Halverson]

Let me get this straight, Chris...you can afford to own an '09 Callaway and plan on DIY maintenance but, yet, you don't want to spend the money for a set of 2009 Factory Service Manuals?

Seriously?!
Dude...maybe you're in the wrong hobby.



The cooling fan on your car is a pulse-width modulated system and doesn't use a relay or an external thermostat for control.

There are no pirated FSMs for 2009 "on CD"...if such a thing even exists. The FSMs are 4000 pages or so and I can't imagine anyone scanning 4000 pages then selling them for a price at which anyone would see as a good value. There are subscription services which make quasi-factory service information available on-line.

The Factory manuals have comprehensive troubleshooting information for the cooling system and the cooling fan system.

As for scan testers powerful enough to help you diagnose a problem with the cooling fan, take a look at the higher-end Actron tools. Actron makes about the best consumer-grade, hardware-based scan testers on the market. You need to get a tester which not only supports global OBD2 but also supports GM specific PIDs because the commanded cooling fan percentage is likely not a global OBD2 parameter.

As for software based testers, where are several...some even run on iPhones and Android phones. I've never used any of them so I cannot suggest any specifics.

 

[LLC5]

Folks...I have a overheating problem with my 2009 Callaway modified Corvette. 5,300 miles since new, no other problems since it was delivered to my driveway in early 2010. The engine fan stopped running, under any operating condition. Overheats quickly at idle, cools when moving at speed. Checked previous threads...yes, I've checked the fuse block, that's not it. Thermostat? Relay? Wiring?

Two general recommendations seem to be: 1) follow a flowchart in the service manual and/or 2) connect a OBDII reader to diagnose the problem.

Question about the manuals, I checked online, the manuals seem to be in the $200+ range for a set of four. Is that the only option? Has anyone scanned them and offer them on CD?

Question about the OBDII reader, what is considered to be the best reader...good for more than this one problem?

Thanks in advance for your assistance...

Looking forward...Chris

Hib has you covered on OBD 2 scan tools and shop manuals, and having both is a good idea if you are going to do it yourself.

What temperature reading are you getting on your overheating condition? Has the coolant ever boiled over from the surge tank?

 

[C64EVER]

Service Manual/OBDII (overheating)

Let me get this straight, Chris...you can afford to own an '09 Callaway and plan on DIY maintenance but, yet, you don't want to spend the money for a set of 2009 Factory Service Manuals?

Seriously?!
Dude...maybe you're in the wrong hobby.



The cooling fan on your car is a pulse-width modulated system and doesn't use a relay or an external thermostat for control.

There are no pirated FSMs for 2009 "on CD"...if such a thing even exists. The FSMs are 4000 pages or so and I can't imagine anyone scanning 4000 pages then selling them for a price at which anyone would see as a good value. There are subscription services which make quasi-factory service information available on-line.

The Factory manuals have comprehensive troubleshooting information for the cooling system and the cooling fan system.

As for scan testers powerful enough to help you diagnose a problem with the cooling fan, take a look at the higher-end Actron tools. Actron makes about the best consumer-grade, hardware-based scan testers on the market. You need to get a tester which not only supports global OBD2 but also supports GM specific PIDs because the commanded cooling fan percentage is likely not a global OBD2 parameter.

As for software based testers, where are several...some even run on iPhones and Android phones. I've never used any of them so I cannot suggest any specifics.

Hib...thanks for the response and feedback. Although I have built and raced four first generation Ford Mustangs, and a number of imports, doing shop work beyond fluids, plugs or other simple tasks is not what I want to spend my time on. Thanks to the complexity of the engine wiring and plumbing in 90s and beyond, along with a significant car accident in 2000 that left me with herniated and ruptured discs in my lower back, working under the hood is not a pleasant pastime.

My goal is to understand the problem so I don't end up blindly spending $$$ at a shop for them to experiment. Dealerships in the PDX metro area have never seen a Callaway modified Corvette, letting them experiment with me is very low on my list. I have a trusted mechanic but he is not a Corvette specialist so I thought I'd seen what sort of solutions might be presented here. Again, thanks...

Looking forward...Chris

 

[C64EVER]

Overheating temperatures

Hib has you covered on OBD 2 scan tools and shop manuals, and having both is a good idea if you are going to do it yourself.

What temperature reading are you getting on your overheating condition? Has the coolant ever boiled over from the surge tank?

Thanks for the response...engine temps having been staying in the 220 to 240 F range this year. Last weekend I was doing some "spirited" driving on the street and the engine hit 260 F...Danger!!! Stopped, killed the engine and popped the hood. It was then I realized the fan was not running. May not have been running all year. Yes, the overflow tank spewed. Let it cool, drove it home and garaged it until this weekend.

This is a special "toy", has never been in the rain or on a wet street. I am rather surprised at a failure with ~5,300 miles, the main reason I stopped buying American cars in the 80s. Racing Honda's and Mitsubishi's, while costly when broken at the drags or on the open track, has never resulted in "simple" failures like this. Unfortunate, but true. Right now, recovering fan operation is my goal so I can race the car without being concerned about overheating.

Looking forward...Chris

 

[LLC5]

Thanks for the response...engine temps having been staying in the 220 to 240 F range this year. Last weekend I was doing some "spirited" driving on the street and the engine hit 260 F...Danger!!! Stopped, killed the engine and popped the hood. It was then I realized the fan was not running. May not have been running all year. Yes, the overflow tank spewed. Let it cool, drove it home and garaged it until this weekend.

This is a special "toy", has never been in the rain or on a wet street. I am rather surprised at a failure with ~5,300 miles, the main reason I stopped buying American cars in the 80s. Racing Honda's and Mitsubishi's, while costly when broken at the drags or on the open track, has never resulted in "simple" failures like this. Unfortunate, but true. Right now, recovering fan operation is my goal so I can race the car without being concerned about overheating.

Looking forward...Chris

Do the fans and a/c compressor engage with the a/c turned on?

 

[C64EVER]

Service Manual and/or OBDII reader

Do the fans and a/c compressor engage with the a/c turned on?

LLC5...hmmm, there is cool air from the AC, not the cold air I am used to with this car. I can hear a relay clicking, the fans are not running. I see you are in WA, whereabouts? Looking forward...Chris

 

[LLC5]

LLC5...hmmm, there is cool air from the AC, not the cold air I am used to with this car. I can hear a relay clicking, the fans are not running. I see you are in WA, whereabouts? Looking forward...Chris

If the radiator fans are not coming on with the a/c turned on then I would start checking all the fuses (make sure none are missing, and check your owners manual for location of all the fuse blocks) with a known good test light (not just a visual) and check the harness from both of the radiator fans. Start at the fans and check the connectors to make sure they are good and tight, then follow the harness back as far as you can looking for any abrasion or loose connectors. Basically check where ever the Callaway tech's were to modify your vehicle to make sure that nothing is loose or frayed. If all that looks good then it is diagnosis time with a scan tester that can check inputs and outputs to and from the PCM. Good luck with it.

 

[C64EVER]

If the radiator fans are not coming on with the a/c turned on then I would start checking all the fuses (make sure none are missing, and check your owners manual for location of all the fuse blocks) with a known good test light (not just a visual) and check the harness from both of the radiator fans. Start at the fans and check the connectors to make sure they are good and tight, then follow the harness back as far as you can looking for any abrasion or loose connectors. Basically check where ever the Callaway tech's were to modify your vehicle to make sure that nothing is loose or frayed. If all that looks good then it is diagnosis time with a scan tester that can check inputs and outputs to and from the PCM. Good luck with it.

LLC5...

Thanks for the suggestions/directions. I have a decent digital volt meter, checked continuity on the fan circuit and the fuse itself. I did not check any of the rest of the fuse block. A project for next weekend perhaps, the vette is back in it's bay with cover and trickle charger on. As you might guess, this car is (and 30+ years of race cars were) not my daily commuting vehicle. I learned, back in the 70s, that racing my daily driver could leave me without the transportation required to get me to and from the office.

Looking forward...Chris

 

[C64EVER]

Service Manual and/or OBDII reader

LLC5...

Thanks for the suggestions/directions. I have a decent digital volt meter, checked continuity on the fan circuit and the fuse itself. I did not check any of the rest of the fuse block. A project for next weekend perhaps, the vette is back in it's bay with cover and trickle charger on. As you might guess, this car is (and 30+ years of race cars were) not my daily commuting vehicle. I learned, back in the 70s, that racing my daily driver could leave me without the transportation required to get me to and from the office.

Looking forward...Chris

LLC5...

Another couple pieces of data if you have experience with failures like this. The AC has not been running at idle, it seems to come on when the car is moving. Very strange, and not observed empirically, just an observation. Also, the digital readout for the AC seems to take 15+ minutes before I detects actual ambient air temperature and adjusts the climate control accordingly. Doesn't seem like that was the case last year. A reply would be great if you have other thoughts, I will do a thorough check of the fuses next weekend. I am fortuante enough to have a lift in the 3rd bay of my garage, I can get it up in the air and see if there is any damaged wiring. Thanks again.

Looking forward...Chris

 

[LLC5]

LLC5...

Another couple pieces of data if you have experience with failures like this. The AC has not been running at idle, it seems to come on when the car is moving. Very strange, and not observed empirically, just an observation. Also, the digital readout for the AC seems to take 15+ minutes before I detects actual ambient air temperature and adjusts the climate control accordingly. Doesn't seem like that was the case last year. A reply would be great if you have other thoughts, I will do a thorough check of the fuses next weekend. I am fortuante enough to have a lift in the 3rd bay of my garage, I can get it up in the air and see if there is any damaged wiring. Thanks again.

Looking forward...Chris

The a/c will compressor will cycle off and on based on your climate control settings and ambient temps. The digital readout does take some time to adjust temp readings, this is normal so that you will not get false reading. Put the a/c in manual mode with the fan settings on high and temp at it's lowest setting and wait for the compressor to kick on, when it does see if the radiator fans come on at the same time as the compressor, they should. You can rev the engine to 1500-2000 rpm's to help engage the compressor, but it should cycle off and on (along with the radiator fans) at idle also.

 

[C64EVER]

Service Manual/OBDII (overheating)

The a/c will compressor will cycle off and on based on your climate control settings and ambient temps. The digital readout does take some time to adjust temp readings, this is normal so that you will not get false reading. Put the a/c in manual mode with the fan settings on high and temp at it's lowest setting and wait for the compressor to kick on, when it does see if the radiator fans come on at the same time as the compressor, they should. You can rev the engine to 1500-2000 rpm's to help engage the compressor, but it should cycle off and on (along with the radiator fans) at idle also.

LLC5...tried your suggested approach, the fan is not running. AC seems to blow "cold" above 2,000 rpm intermittently and I can hear a relay clicking but it is basically blowing ambient air. So, no AC and no fan. Fuse is fine as are other related ones I checked. Next steps? Thanks in advance...Chris

 

[LLC5]

LLC5...tried your suggested approach, the fan is not running. AC seems to blow "cold" above 2,000 rpm intermittently and I can hear a relay clicking but it is basically blowing ambient air. So, no AC and no fan. Fuse is fine as are other related ones I checked. Next steps? Thanks in advance...Chris

Do you know if your a/c compressor is engaging with the a/c on full cold and blower on high, even though the fans do not come on?

About the only thing you can do without a tablet or expensive scan tool that can read sensor inputs and PCM/BCM output signals, is to double check all the areas that Callaway techs have been to modify your vehicle and look for loose or disconnected harness plug connectors and possibly chafed harnesses and makes sure that all the fuses and relays are good and installed properly. I have seen missing fuses and relays on new vehicles. If any recent accessories have been installed or services have been performed look in those areas also.

 

[C64EVER]

Do you know if your a/c compressor is engaging with the a/c on full cold and blower on high, even though the fans do not come on?

About the only thing you can do without a tablet or expensive scan tool that can read sensor inputs and PCM/BCM output signals, is to double check all the areas that Callaway techs have been to modify your vehicle and look for loose or disconnected harness plug connectors and possibly chafed harnesses and makes sure that all the fuses and relays are good and installed properly. I have seen missing fuses and relays on new vehicles. If any recent accessories have been installed or services have been performed look in those areas also.

LLC5...when the AC is on manual and the fan is on high it seems like ambient air to me and we've had warm weather this year. Once in a while, parking but holding the engine at 2,500 rpm, some cold air comes out but the AC is certainly not working as it has since new. I used to hear the fan running but have had my wife hold the rpm's up when it's at 220+ degrees engine temp while I watch. No movement from the engine fan.

Also, no one has been in the engine compartment except me in these 5+ years. I have changed the oil once a year and replaced the battery. Aside from that, there is no reason anything should be different than as it was delivered to me in early 2010. I have a mechanic I've used for other cars, he works mostly on imports but likely has the diagnostic equipment to check for failures. Thanks again for your support...Chris

 

[Hib Halverson]

I've been reading along for the duration of this thread.

My belief is it's going to be tough for you to service the cooling fan system without, first, diagnosing it per the Service Manual and using a scan tester, but that said, if you want to continue to guess, if the fuse(s) are good, the wiring appears in good condition but the ECT is very high and the fan is not running, you could try replacing the fan controller.

Once you get it fixed, get someone who knows calibration to lower the fan strategy in the ECM cal. Anyone with EFI Live can easily do it once you license the ECM.