shorty plugs?

[rrubel]

You'd think I'd have had my share of problems, right? Last 1% of the project, I run into another issue. The combination of the Pro Topline heads (straight plug), the stock exhaust manifolds, and the AC Delco RapidFire plug creates a collision. I just CANNOT have the plugs and manifolds in place at the same time - the plug hits the top of the manifold heat shield (but looks like it'd hit the pipe itself as well) before the manifold reaches its mounting holes.

I looked through the archives, searching for shorty plugs. Found lots of people asking about them, but only Ken showed a picture (of Accel ones) and even they don't look much shorter.

Anyone have any suggestions? I do have a set of headers that need some repair (which is why they're not on) but I've no guarantee they'd fit either.

Help! I'm so close I can TASTE it. Or is that just oil?
[RICHR]

 

[Ken]

:L You too, eh Rich? I know what you'll be going through - good luck!

Shorty plugs are not available for the aluminum heads yet. Believe me, I've checked.

 

[Moonunit 451]

How is it you guys end up with these straight plug heads, instead of the L98 angled ones :confused

 

[Ken]

My builder wanted to use the Edelbrock E-Tec 200 cylinder heads, which have:

... 200cc rectangular intake ports and 78cc exhaust ports. They outflow other similar aluminum heads by 10% on the intake and 17% on the exhaust, making power up to 6500 rpm.

I initially had chosen the Victor 23° heads, which have the angled plug holes; the E-Tec's are straight-plug heads. I also had to modify the TPiS MiniRam III intake when we switched head choices. What's a fella to do?

 

[rrubel]

I was told when I bought them that stock heads were straight plug and you only needed angled ones if you were going with headers (which I wasn't at the time). Guess I was told wrong. Wouldn't be the first time...

Anyway, ACCEL does apparently make shorty plugs for AL heads. At least, they're sold as fitting a 91 Vette with stock heads. Sold in a box of 10 (!) for about $34, and my receipt says PN 8199. Not sure if that's an ACCEL number or their part number. They've been ordered and should be here Wednesday. We'll see if they fit. Don't need anything spectacular right now; it'll be enough to fire up the car and drive it until I can see about getting headers on, or at least getting something done with these manifolds.

Hm. As I look at ACCEL's web site, this might not be the right plug. They list 8198. We use resistor plugs? Anyway, I just called the place I ordered them from (imagine! a local speed shop that's open until 9 pm!) and they're going to order BOTH items for me. Now I just have to determine which is the correct part. And, of course, hope they fit.

[RICHR]

 

[Ken]

If Accel is making shorties for the aluminum heads Rich, then I'll tell ya what - someone's ****ing me around! I talked with someone on the telephone about it and they told me no, they don't have the 14mm 3/4"-reach projected tip plugs for the aluminum heads yet.

 

[rrubel]

Now I'm REALLY confused. The guy at the shop today called ACCEL and asked for header plugs for a 91 with AL heads, and was given a part number. The FIRST time I went to the web site, I found what I posted before. NOW, though, I don't see them listed! WTF??

Anyone tried denting their manifolds to work around the problem?

So what did you wind up doing, Ken? I'm stuck - if I can't find shorter plugs, and my headers don't solve the problem either, I can't think of any other solution but new heads - and that's not happening.

[RICHR]

 

[Ken]

You've seen my mods, haven't you Rich?

 

[Moonunit 451]

Ken, I've read most of your saga, just haven't had much to offer, and it's a LOT of reading. Obviously you (or someone) even custom built your headers. I know you've spared NO expense. I'm sorry to see both you guys (and others) having these kind of trouble, and I sure hope you can find a solution, cause changing heads is Damn EXPEnSIVE.

 

[black_81_vette]

Id try using bosch supers there about 1/4 inch shorter and they work great for me

 

[Ken]

... and it's a LOT of reading.

The saga here (my "engine project" threads) is kinda long and scattered. If you prefer seeing more pictures than text, visit My Engine Project: Phase I and My Engine Project: Phase II pages on my personal web site.

 

[rrubel]

Bosch Supers? Haven't heard of them; will have to investigate... I was hoping to have the car DONE yesterday. ARGH!

Ken, custom headers are about as out-of-the-picture as new heads. I feel like the manager who can only approve purchases up to $50 - so anything large would need to be submitted in $49.99 chunks! I just cannot get the green light for any more expenses in the $50 and up range.

Thanks.
[RICHR]

 

[rrubel]

Alright. *Somebody* please answer these questions with authority.

1. Is a "non-projected tip" the same as a "retracted tip?"
2. Do we or do we not use resistor plugs?
3. Why is my life so friggin' DIFFICULT?

I called the place I bought the heads from; they gave me a Champion plug number that was recommended for them. It's for a "standard reach, retracted tip" plug. Standard reach is, according to my research on the 'net, anything from 3/8" to 3/4". What's STANDARD about that???

[RICHR]

 

[Mad-Mic]

well Rich all i can say is i still have 50 on it :L


see ya in a few bud.

 

[Ken]

Alright. *Somebody* please answer these questions with authority.

Is Champion authority enough for you Rich? That page should explain all types of spark plugs for ya.

I'm still dealing with the issue of what gap is best with my ignition. On the one hand, people like Smokey say to use the widest gap possible that your ignition system can handle.

The September issue of CHP states: "The better the ignition, the wider you can go with the gap. Too small of a gap will create a weak spark that won't completely ignite the mixture.".

Then I have people like my TEC3 rep who say I should run the gap closer to 0.028 rather than wider for this setup. You think you want someone with authority to speak up??

 

[sothpaw]

Sorry to hear this, Rich

Help! I'm so close I can TASTE it. Or is that just oil?
[RICHR]

This sucks. I feel for you. I can relate--last year, I missed Nashville, Carslile, and the June 12 Cecil County Drags because the car was in the shop due to "complications" from the mods--like this spark plug/header issue. For me, it was really a lot simpler--needed studs, guideplates, pushrods, and roller rockers all compatible (had NOT intended to replace any of this and that made it worse). Then the brand new Opti went south. Then another ignition module...

...all I can say is, when it's done, it really is worth it. You have a car that will spank a STOCK C5 coupe/vert at least in a straight line. Z06 might almost be within reach.


...My .02, run the car w/o headers and make sure it runs good and enjoy for a few weeks. After that, yeah, maybe you are look'in at having a machine shop modify your stock headers to fit. That's assuming of course that none of those plugs works for you.

 

[rrubel]

Sothpaw, it'd be great to run it at all, with or without headers. The problem is that the stock manifolds conflict with the spark plugs. The headers, which aren't installed, had a hole in them (which Mad Mic is going to try and get welded on Wednesday). They hopefully will make the clearance difference. Now all I need to do is find the head-manufacturer-recommended spark plug. And that in itself is a nightmare of a different kind, as their web page seems to contradict what the reseller said they said, which according to NGK is wrong because I have a tapered seat and not a flat seat, apparently unusual for AL heads.

Ken, thanks for that page. It'll give me something to read tonight...

[RICHR]

 

[Moonunit 451]

Rich, Ken, and others, I feel for ya. I know a lot of folks thought I was nuts buying a 383 w/some miles on it, but it was exactly what I was looking for! I was fortunate enough to find someone on this forum, who is unfortunately no longer active to drive several hours to go and check it out, running for me.

I bought it on his recomendation, and couldn't be happier. I changed a lot of stuff, but the basics + were all in place. I feel really fortunate when I see the trouble you guys are having. It's really not my luck, so I'm sure something will go sideways any day now, but I'm sure enjoying it for the time being.

Your time will come Rich. My car was down for over 8 mos. Don't get discouraged. You're lucky to be living close to someone like Mic who I'm sure is becoming a valued resource and freind

 

[Ken]

You're lucky to be living close to someone like Mic who I'm sure is becoming a valued resource and friend

Those guys back east seem to get together more for things like this than we do out here, eh Colin? It makes it so much easier when you have another head to put together with your own.

Rich ain't far behind me in getting it sorted out. I had mine out today and it was running great! Hang in there Rich. :cool

 

[black_81_vette]

I know that auto zone sells bosch supers and since you need a taper seat plug ask the counter person to cross reference a AC r44ts or r43ts wich is colder plug.most plugs will be a non projected nose desighn, meaning the center electrode will not be above the threaded area of the plug.I do not know what type of pistion or deck hight your at but with your ignition set up .50 or so on the gap should be close to ideal.