Should Corvette Become its Own Brand?

[ROCKETBLOCK]

I think his point was that we shouldn't be required to move to England to buy it.

With some redesigning of the front end and a HP kick, I could see this platform as a Corvette "Boxter"-beater.

I agree... This could be a Chevy, just not a Corvette.

 

[LongTimer]

I agree... This could be a Chevy, just not a Corvette.

Rocket,

YES, I agree this car would help rebuild the Chevy performance image and (IMO) help justify the continuation of Corvette as a Chevy. However, I would bet a paycheck that if it does come to the US, it will be as a Pontiac (possibly a draw car for Saturn).

Pontiac has been designated as the Performance Division. No "freindly" inter-GM competion seems to be authorized - witness my earlier comments about the Monte's 240 HP vs. the GP's 260HP. Pontiac has ram air models for the grand am, the gran prix and the bonneville is getting a 275HP small-star (a beefed version of the Olds version of the Northstar). I HOPE GM does NOT decide to move the Vette to the performance division!!! I would much prefer the vette as it's own line vs. being a Pontiac!!!!!

 

[bluecoupe]

England's Vauxhall Vectra a sign of things to come at Chevrolet Chevy is hoping import buyers will eat up next fall's Vectra-based Malibu


http://www.jsonline.com/wheels/test/nov02/99728.asp?format=print

Hey Chevy, you're bringing us the wrong model Vauxall!

 

[Mart]

What is going on Here

OK OK enough is enough.

Do any of you Vette owners really want to see a mid engined Corvette?

If so, go buy a girly mid engined Miata.....

The Corvette is in itself a legend, a piece of automotive history. 50 years of constanty improving and pleasing artwork. The above mentioned cars just do not have the passion that the Vette invokes.

I'll bet every Vette owner has things the like about every era of the Corvette, even saying VETTE makes me feel good and proud of the American workmanship and pride that goes into every Vette. I have a friend that owned a Lotus Esprit S4S and the damn clock on the thing was always broken and every time it went in for service it was another 1000 bucks and that was a 140G car (Canadian).

OK I vented enough.

Thanks
Mart

 

[bluecoupe]

Yes! I want a mid-engined Vette if it is going to be like this:

 

[LongTimer]

Re: What is going on Here

OK OK enough is enough.

Do any of you Vette owners really want to see a mid engined Corvette?

I, for one, was NOT advocating that the Vauxall / Opel replace today's vette. It would, however, make a creditable "little brother" whether named Camaro, Baby Vette, or Entry Hot Handling Car. If the Chevy division gets some tasty performance cars this could fill a nice marketing niche.

If so, go buy a girly mid engined Miata.....

I'm no fan of rice-burners, but even I know that the Miata is front engine / RWD. The MR2 is the little middy from Japan. This Vaux / Opel is said to handle more like the Lotus Elise (sp?) which is highly touted by the Euro motor press.

The Corvette is in itself a legend, a piece of automotive history. 50 years of constanty improving and pleasing artwork. The above mentioned cars just do not have the passion that the Vette invokes.

I have loved vettes since I was 8 years old. I think the vette has deserves more than to be the top model in a division of economy cars and suvs, requardless of how good or bad those other cars are. I think an additional GOOD model of a Corvette would have a chance to EARN the passion of its owners and strengthen and secure the perpetuity of the Corvette.

OK I vented enough.
Thanks
Mart

Yeah, me too.

 

[Mart]

Oops

You are quite right Longtimer, my mistake I actually meant the MR2

They are still both kind of gurly cars.

Pardon the brainfart.

Did the camero not start putting 6s in the mid 80's with the 2.8 v6 that was the same engine as the Z24's


Mart

 

[LongTimer]

Re: Oops

Did the camero not start putting 6s in the mid 80's with the 2.8 v6 that was the same engine as the Z24's

Mart

I'm not sure I get your point.

The Camaro has offered a 6 Cyl since 1967 (so did Mustang, Novas, Chevelles, etc). In the beginning few Camaros were sold along side of the higher performing 327, 350, and 396 CI V8s. More V6's were being sold in recent years given the cost of gas, insurance and the economy in gerneral. In it's final years of production, the 200HP 3800 (buick) was the offering.

 

[Mart]

Quite true Longtimer, but then I'm not a Camaro buff I just remember all the Z28's or RS's or something like that with the 2.8 in the 80's.

We are getting away from the original thread, should Corvette be it's own brand.

No, it has a history of being Chevrolet and to take that away would not make it a Chevy Corvette, it seems everybody is always wanting to change things they like to make them better, but think about why you liked those things in the first place.

I live in a city of under a 100,000 and it seems to be kind of small town like, where you can't go anywhere without seeing someone you know. And that is what I like about it. But the people running the city want growth, population, business and with those things you lose that small town feel.

To chanke the Branding of Corvette would make it ....Well..... Not Corvette, not Morevette, but just plain starting a tradition all over again.

And the end of a legend.

Mart

 

[LongTimer]

No, it has a history of being Chevrolet and to take that away would not make it a Chevy Corvette, it seems everybody is always wanting to change things they like to make them better, but think about why you liked those things in the first place.

You are making my point. Today's Chevy offerings are NOT of the same performance caliber or even aimed at the same market as the Chevy lineups offered during Corvette's formative years. As for wanting change ... the world changes. In the 50's, 60's and 70's, who would have thought that the number of cars sold in the USA produced overseas would be as great as it is today? Certainly no one at Oldsmobile or Plymouth.

To chanke the Branding of Corvette would make it ....Well..... Not Corvette, not Morevette, but just plain starting a tradition all over again.

And the end of a legend.

Mart

People and corporations and divisions grow. GM, apparently has "grown" chevy into a high value economy division, with SUVs and pickups. This apparent master plan is part of the same plan that focuses on having no crossover competion between the divisions and included the elimination of Oldsmobile for this reason. I'm not crazy about change. I would love to go down to my Chevy dealer today and buy my son a V8 Nova SS, but the fact that I can't is not my fault. Change has been thrust upon me.

I am concerned for the future of Corvette as a $45-58k sports car sold at a dealer whose next most expensive CAR is typically less than half that base price. A division whose focus is on whether or not power windows should be included on an economy car and has made no effort, nor is talking about making any effort, to offer anything with a performormance edge except Corvette. The elimination of the Camaro and the subsequent lack of plans for its replacement are MAJOR messages to me and catalists for my position.

It is not change for the sake of change that I endorse, but rather changes that assure the ongoing success of Corvette. I think GM should make a division out of Corvette and offer two, maybe three separate vehicles that would be world class leaders in performance and value such that the Europeans and Japanese would start importing vettes in reasonable numbers.

 

[Mart]

Yeah, that's exectly what all vette owners want high production volume vette's.......NOT..

The Corvette is a Chevy, take that away and you do not have a vette anymore, at least in my eyes.

open it up to more readers, c'mon people chev or not??

BTW - In Canada an 03 Vert will run you 80- 85g's

 

[LongTimer]

Yeah, that's exectly what all vette owners want high production volume vette's.......NOT..

The Corvette is a Chevy, take that away and you do not have a vette anymore, at least in my eyes.

open it up to more readers, c'mon people chev or not??

BTW - In Canada an 03 Vert will run you 80- 85g's

I never said anything about a high volume production vette. If another 10k vettes were produced and sent overseas, that would hardly make the vette a volume car. It might be fun to hear from some Europeans about how their vettes walked away form some Porshe, or other on the Autobahn.

If this is your only rebuttal to the issues I have raised, I assume you can find no fault them. Therefore, you must be ojecting based on pure emotion.

By the way, as I've said before, I think there is no way GM will tear the Vette away from Chevy. I am simply pointing out:
1. ... how illogical it is for GM to leave it with Chevy, IF Chevy is barred from producing other performance cars.
2. ... what a shame it is that a pure performance division does not exist at GM, and if one should ever exist, it should be a Corvette division ... NOT Pontiac, Not Cadillac.

 

[Edmond]

2. ... what a shame it is that a pure performance division does not exist at GM, and if one should ever exist, it should be a Corvette division ... NOT Pontiac, Not Cadillac.

Why is that so? Ford has their SVT line and Dodge has their SRT line. Why doesn't Chevy have a high performance line? The imports have their type S's, STI's, etc...

GM is really missing out on a lot, money and popularity wise. It's things like these that doomed the F-bodies.

 

[LongTimer]

Why is that so? Ford has their SVT line and Dodge has their SRT line. Why doesn't Chevy have a high performance line? The imports have their type S's, STI's, etc...

GM is really missing out on a lot, money and popularity wise. It's things like these that doomed the F-bodies.

If Chevy still was offering a line of SS variants, I would not be touting the need for a Corvette Division. But they aren't, so I am.

In fact, they have told us they will NOT produce the juicy SS concept and then for a replacement for the heavy Camaro, they offer a great looking (serious here I love the look), 4,764 lb powered by a small 300 HP V8 - at least it's not a V6!! Oh yeah, the Bel Aire concept tribute car to the mid-fifties Chevies featured a FIVE cylendar. Where's the Chevy I loved as a kid????

 

[Mart]

Is emotion not what creates the passion alot of corvette owners have for thier cars?

And if I am emotional about it, so be it.

How many corvette fans were upset about the lack of originality put into the 50th anniversary edition, paint, colour matching interior and rims....woo hoo.

That was done rember 78, 88, 93.

But after all is said and done, the 2003 is still one sweet chevy, as is your 87 and my 86 and as well as the C3's 2's and least we forget the mother of them all.

THE 1953 CHEVROLET Corvette

Let the others have thier lines SVT SRT S' and well the imports just don't get thier mention, I'm 6'2 260lb's and I don't fit into any of those especially the Subaru's.

When out on the street people look and stare at my vette (Yes even an 86 and I still get lots of comments as well as offers)while the WRX makes a farting noise as it wiz's by.

There are already 3 lines of corvette, Vert, Coupe and Z06 as well as other combo's, a corvette with a line that had a V6 or maybe 4 seats would, well just be F#@$$% stupid. (That's emotion)

I love this banter, Let me have it Longtimer.

Mart

 

[LongTimer]

When it comes to choosing and driving a car - especially a sports car, and especially a Corvette, emotion about the cars' performance and looks may be the greatest buying influence. However, the organization and management of a multi-billion $$$ manufacturing organization like GM cannot depend on emotion alone, any more than it could be successful without some emotion. Nor can this organization hope to continue if it waddles along in status quo as the world around them changes.

Studebaker, Hudson, American Motors, etc. These companies stuck their heads in the production and design sand box and lost the ability to compete. In the 80's Chrysler very nearly did the same thing. Change for the sake of change is foolish and wasteful. Refusal or inability to change, when the environment requires it, results in extinction.

Today's marketplace is one of specialization and focus - mission statement in today's venacular. BMW makes sporty lux cars. MB makes lux cars that are sometimes sporty. Hundai makes econo cars that appear to be good value with questionable quality. Honda makes high quality, high content econo cars. Cad's mission is to become a world class leader again (remember when we used to say, "that's the Cadillac of..." TV sets, or blenders or whatever?). Buick's goal is to be not quite as good as Cad for less $$$. Olds goal is to join Stude. Pontiac's mission is performance - an american BMW? Chevy's goal does not appear to be that of the division that I loved (emotion) in my youth. Chevy's goal appears to be to build very good trucks & SUVs and, also, to sell some economy cars ... oh yeah, also a $45-58k sports car. Of the GM Divisions, which one's goal looks most muddled and out of focus?

Note: Because of fewer divisions om FOMCO and the current GM mission trend, the Chevy / Ford performance rival may someday become the Pontiac / Ford rival unless you think that a 240HP Monte C is a match for the new Mustang - the new GTO is a closer matchup.

 

[Mart]

That's it? Nice rebutal.

Do you work for GM executive?

I do beleive that GM did not adequitly deal with the demise of the F-Body, but let's not take that out on the Corvette.

I'm not the happiest about GM's relationship with certain foreign car makers (DaeWoo) but I do beleive those initiatives are what enable them to keep the Corvette lineup alive. Let's face it the Corvette production #'s do not add up to a large % of the automobiles they sell on a yearly basis.

Next thing we will hear in hear is someone wanting the worlds first EV corvette.

Mart

 

[LongTimer]

That's it? Nice rebutal.

Thanks

Do you work for GM executive?

No, but I wish I did.

I do beleive that GM did not adequitly deal with the demise of the F-Body, but let's not take that out on the Corvette.

The cancellation of the F bodies was the final step in the removal of performance at Chevrolet. I feel that the establishement of a Corvette Division would be the opposite of "taking it out on the Corvette." It would be a step to assure its future. How about this: Assume Corvette's days as a Chevy are numbered (small assumption IMO). Do you want to see it as a Pontiac, or in its own, expanded model Division?

I'm not the happiest about GM's relationship with certain foreign car makers (DaeWoo) but I do beleive those initiatives are what enable them to keep the Corvette lineup alive. Let's face it the Corvette production #'s do not add up to a large % of the automobiles they sell on a yearly basis.

I am very concerned about the migration of so much US manufacturing to Asia, but I see no alternative today. For the past 11 years I have worked for a Hi-Tech Manufacturer based in So.Cal. with plants all around the world. Today we have closed all 3 US plants and 3 others around the world. Nearly all of our manufacturing is now being done in Asia. We did not make these moves for greed. In fact, we were too slow to adapt and it cost us very dearly. Our customers would only place orders for pricing based on Asia costs regardless of where the product was manufactured. As I have said before, a corporations choices are clear: Adaptation (evolution), or extinction.

The Corvette is a tremendous asset to GM. Seldom does one think of it as the "Chevrolet Corvette", just the "Corvette." despite the lower production numbers the Corvette can stand on its own and be impervious to the activities in other divisions, IMO. Spread the marketing risk to include another 10k or so of vettes sold abroad to reduce sole dependancy upon the US economic fluctuations and offer another model or two. This would NOT preclude your current Chevy Dealer from selling vettes. They could, if they qualify, offer the Vette Division cars.

Next thing we will hear in hear is someone wanting the worlds first EV corvette.

FYI: Rumors have the Acura NSX replacement being a HYBRID!

Rob, I bet you wish you never brought this up, huh?

 

[LongTimer]

It IS long. But mostly because I'm so long winded and fight harder for my loosing position.

 

[Rob]

Yeah, that's exectly what all vette owners want high production volume vette's.......NOT..

The Corvette is a Chevy, take that away and you do not have a vette anymore, at least in my eyes.

open it up to more readers, c'mon people chev or not??

BTW - In Canada an 03 Vert will run you 80- 85g's

I don't see where we're talking about making the Corvette a high volume production car. In fact, I think most of us would agree that we would not want to see that.

Personally, I don't see how pulling the Corvette out from underneath the Chevrolet badge and making it into its own brand would turn it into some kind of high volume car. A certain model maybe - yes it would probably be a higher production, but I'm looking at it in terms of a three tiered structure similar to Porsche.

The Boxster is probably their highest production Porsche model. It's well known that it's not a high performance Porsche, however, it continues to get rave reviews in it's limited performance, handling and fun factor. On the other side of the spectrum, the Porsche 911 Twin Turbo model is by no means, a high production model. You certainly do not see those around every corner like you do a Boxster.

Yes, Corvette has always been a Chevrolet, but Chevrolet is much more than just the Corvette. The Corvette is one hell of a car for the money - there's no doubt. However, I think the Corvette has potential to be much more than what it is and has been if the production and marketing of the car was a little different.

I do want to clarify that I am by no means, indicating that GM/Chevrolet is wrong in how they build or market the car now. All I'm saying is, in my unprofessional opinion, there is potential for the marque to be more than what it is.

There is another small problem I see with the car, or at least an observation that has been presented to me. A lot of people feel that the Corvette needs to be marketed to a younger crowd rather than the middle-aged crowd. Some people feel that in the eyes of the younger crowd, the car is practically unobtainable.

In the area that I live in, just outside of DC, I would have to argue with that observation based upon what I've seen. There is a TON of money in this area. There are exotic sports cars all over the place. It's not uncommon to see a couple BMW Z8s roaming around, Ferrari 360 Modenas (hell Ferrari of Washington is practically in my backyard), an occasional Lamborghini Diablo/Murcielago and just last week I saw a genuine Ferrari F40 driving around 3 days in a row.

Of course, there are Corvettes everywhere and most of those Corvettes are C5s/Z06s. The majority of the owners I see driving these cars are the 30 something crowd. In fact, two mornings ago on my way to work, I was driving side by side with two black C5s, one behind the other being driven by two very attractive, young blonde women. In fact, a fair percentage of C5 owners I see are relatively young women in their late 30s, early 40s.

Now, when I go to cruise nights or car shows, the majority of C5 owners that I see are the older, middle-aged men. Go figure.

As I previously stated early in this thread, I don't think that a 3-tiered production model would harm the Corvette in any way.

3 Tier Structure

1. "Billy Bob"
Remember the "Billy Bob" concept of the C5 Hardtop? They could resurrect that - making it the low volume Corvette that would have good performance, handling and minimal creature comforts.
Price: ~$35,000 - $40,000

2. Mid-Range Coupe/Convertible
This would be the next step up from the "Billy Bob" model having slightly higher performance and handling capability along with more creature comforts - similar to the current C5 platform now.
Price: ~$50,000 - $60,000

3. Ultra High Performance - Z06
This would be the low-weight, low-production, ultra high performance, high-dollar, semi/exotic Corvette constructed of light weight composite materials, advanced engine and chassis technolgy derived from competitive racing experience from the C5-Rs. It would be a light weight exotic Corvette that could be ordered with either the "Billy Bob" concept in mind (minimal options/creature comforts for lowest weight efficency), or the fully optioned, plush exotic Corvette meant to give the owner the ultimate in comfort and performance.
Price: ~$100,000+

With this pricing structure, you could attract a wider age group than is currently possible while providing all enthusiasts with their desired level of performance and comfort provided that they can afford what they want.

As they say: "how fast you want to go depends upon how much you want to pay".

Again, these are just my own personal thoughts and are in no way indicative of anyone else in the administration of this site.

I don't work in the automotive industry and therefore I do not have experience with automotive focus groups and the proper ways of marketing a car to a certain population.