Street cars of the '60's

[ro.co2]

I'm reading all of your posts and it brings back alot of memories. I spent my teen years in the sixtys in Ft. Lauderdale. What a great place to be , A1A on any weekend was a cruise fest of any kind of street rod you could imagine. Yea we had a couple of cobras around but never saw one race. They were like a good looking woman with there hair all done up, more show than go. Anyway it was all there and yes plenty of vettes. At the time I had a couple of rich budies with vettes but they were way out of my reach. I remember being on the strip down by the elbo room sometimes watching the old guys going by in there vettes thinking what a waste of a good car. Now I'm one of those old guys and I'm loving it. By the way at the drag stripe on amateur night the old mopars with those push button autos were hard to beat .In the mid sisties I had an austin healy 3000 and beleave it or not that thing in a red light to red light run was hard to beat,alot of low end torque in that straight 6. Then I got a 66 goat ,let the games begin, alot of fun and tickets there. I wouldn't trade those times for anything thanks to everyone for jogging the memories.

 

[atmmac]

too bad i didnt live in the 60's. I have a 66 impala rag top but it only has a 283 =(

-Andy

 

[1KULC7]

I will give you the prespective from New England. I grew up in LYNN, Mass., near the GE which made Jet Engines, as you can guess all the machinists who worked for GE had Muscle cars. First they raced on the LYNN MARSH ROAD, long straight road between Lynn and Revere, then everying by 1966 shifted to the "Carwash" located on the Lynnway and the Nahaunt Causeway at night. I was very much around during the hayday of the true muscle cars and loved every minuite of it, thus today I still am a motorhead wishing for those simpler days to return...ok ok I know I am a throughback.

Cobras were more of a track car until the Ford Shelby Cobras came out first with the GT350, then the GT500KR. There was a mafia dealer named Al Grillo in Lynn who had several on the lot (62 Cobras) and many many of the Mustang Cobras....in the early 70's Al Grillo lost his dealership and was found dead, ironically on the Lynn Marsh Road. Well if it was not for his dealership in the Boston area, I don't think we would have seen any of these cars. Al Grillo was the King of Fords in the mid 60s. Those Fords were more common to see then the small two seat Cobra of 1962, very rarely did you see those. The Ford Mustang GT with a 390 were great cars and you would see many of those, for some reason most were a cooperish color or dark green. Of coarse the Torino, with its Cobra Jet was present, but really not much of a threat in the 1/4 mile, they were considered to big and heavy.... In reality the Mercury was really not a big player in this area, sure it had the Cougar XR7, with a 390, but it really did not sell for the price they wanted in my area of the country.

Mopar and Chevrolet were most popular. In the begining it was all Plymouth Fury and a car call Chrysler 300 with hemi and dual quads...and the occasional Hemi...in the Plymouth Fury, but alot more Hemis were in the large New Yorkers and Imperials. Again the Fury was considered a Police Car, but still Dodge and Plymouth had a great run of Hemis, especially for track cars only, but very few on the street until the late 60s. Chevy had the 409 impala SS, and just started with Chevy II SS (283), then the Nova started up. The Covair Spyder was a quick car, although people who seemed to like British Sports cars seemed to like the Corvair. Then as the mid sixties approached, the 64 GTO start to catch on, but it was the 65-66 that really started to make things turn, around the same time Chevelle and Malibu started to run, and very quietly as if in the background the Buick GS400 was running and beating a lot of cars, but because it was a Buick was not popular. But Buick did make a big mark in 1970 with the GSX, again very expensive but VERY VERY fast, remember Buick had a special engine that produced an enormous amount of torque, those Buick Heads were straight up... Then Mopar or better known as the Dodge Boys (Y'all come back know...hear) started its big push, with all its Chrysler products, the Road Runners, Dart GTS (not common), Barracuda 340's, Dart Swingers (VERY popular) up to the top end Hemi Cornets and Chargers....Charger came out as a fastback with mild engine set up a 383....until it totally changed in 68. This time is when the Hemi made its mark on the street. However not to be ignored by the big three, ...RAMBLER now AMC, had the AMX with the GO PACK, which I thought was the most underated car of all, it was the only other car that could claim to be a sports car (two seats) other then the Corvette produced in American, AMC went on to produce the Rambler Scrabbler, which took the drag racing community by surprise,,,that thing screamed and nobody talks about it today. It was red white and blue...meanwhile GM continued to put larger engines in smaller cars as whell as big cars...by 1967 the Impala could be purchased with a 427 tripower engine pushing well over 390 HP, far superior then the heavy torques 409. The Corvette was the car considered to be the king and in many corners far superior to the Mustang Cobra or even the Hemi Cuda....Corvettes, Chevelles, Malibus, and Camaros were winning, along with there cousins the GTO, OLDS 442, Grand Prix 455, Impala 427, BUICK GS455, Buick Riveaira 430 with dual quards it screamed, and the Firebird. Then Mopar with its line including the Demon, Super Bee, Super Bird, Road Runner, Dodge Dart, Dodge Swinger, Cornet, GTX, Challenger T/A, Cuda, and the list continues.
Muscle cars were the family sedan or hardtop with a hudge engine, Pony cars were built specifically for sport, speed and daily driving (Mustang, Camaro and Firebird) and the Corvette remained in a class by itself, expect for the AMX...it was the only true AMERICAN Sports car (not counting the Avanti, Excaliber, or AMX)....

I personally owned a Buick GS400 1968 Stage I (yes a Stage I three were produced in 68), a 1969 Yenko Camaro SS 427, and a 62 Corvette fuel injected never got that on the road bad accident damage, but I sold it to buy the Buick. I did race at NE Dragway, and did see all the major race cars and drivers.

I do remember this, cars then had no air, no power steering, no fancy radio systems, no electric windows or power locks...everybody tried to get the stripped down version (less weight), with the biggest engine. Firestone Wide Oval Red Line tires were the shoes with Cheetha Slicks, many used shackles to raise the car forward, lifting the back, traction of hop bars were used, headers could be installed in an afternoon, aluminum manifolds were the choice if you had money, and almost everybody had an STP sticker that graced the rear window. Sunoco 260 gas was the rage (highest octane I think it was 111 for the street), racing stripes were used by some, but most stuck to factory stripes or paint. The 396 then 454 Chevy engine was the most popular while Mopar most popular was the 383 and the 440 Magnum Wedge. Very few Hemis roamed the street, but they were there, and the car most faired was the 427 Corvette or Camaro. Nobody new much about COPO's or other factory type race cars, most were interested in just buying a basic car and building it up in the backyard.

It seemed the insurance companies and pollution laws killed the muscle car in 1972, then it was dead in 1973. To me the last good year was 1970, and some of 71....after that it wend way down hill fast and has never been the same, its something your read about.

Well thats my take Kinda missed those days, but if you are really objective about it, isn't that what the people with the Hondas, Eclipes and Accura's are doing today...just what we did

Unless you lived it you will never never experience what we did from reading about it or hearing the stories.

 

[prepass]

My dad tells a story. He was driving home one night in his 64 1/2 mustang that he put a 289/271 with 2x4's and 4sp into. Driving home one night at a high rate of speed, headlights appeared in his rear view. He got on the mustang and gave it all it had for a couple of miles but was run down and passed by a cobra. The 64 1/2 had no torque and didn't run the light to light very well, so he traded it on a 67 GTA 390. In 68, he went chevy with a 68 corvette 327/350 which saw many iterations. My brother has it now and he tries to keep up with my Chevelle. I wish it was safe to do it on the street today.

 

[Viking427]

Can't say about 60's but the 1970-80's performance drought meant those same fabled 61-72 muscle cars were still alive and kicking WELL into the 80's with one advantage. By 1980-85 your average 15-20 year old kid buying his first $300 dream project could actually afford those same fabled cars first time out. Lemme see; 68 Z28, 67 Camaro, 68 Chevelle conv, 69 Chevelle 396, 72 Chevelle 402 conv, 71 Z28, 72 GS conv, 69 442 conv, and my list goes on. Plus SB and BB parts cars were plentiful and cheap in the bone yards by then. If I had the foresight to hang onto those cars and buy 100 more at 80's prices...oh my lord ! My buddy was into Mopars and I remember looking at 6 different 69-71 Barracuda convertibles (all nice drivers, all < $2000) with him and him not buying any of them because they were all 318/340/360 motors & he wanted a 383/440. I'd buy all in split second today. Street racing those same cars was also our climax to our Saturday night cruise as well; 30-40 cars pull over on the shoulder of the hwy, everyone piles out onto the hood/fender...arm drops...Boss 429 & AMX 401 scream by, everyone back into their cars and tear out before the cops arrive 2 minutes later. God help you if your car didn't start and you were the poor sap left behind to answer questions/drop names to the police, much less have your girl with you while doing so (Don't ask how I know this). No doubt, the 60's were legendary times, we as teenagers in the 80's paid homage to this fact even then. But from a young adult's perspective, the 80's were the days for buying/building cheap, fast legandary muscle cars. BTW, there was only one Cobra around town in the 80's and we never once saw it on the road then either.

 

[studiog]

I was around in the sixties too. Don't ever remember seeing any Cobras on the street. I had an uncle who would take me to Englishtown (Drag strip in NJ) and I think Watkins Glen NY?? He had a 62 Vette, it was only a year or two old at the time. It was at the road racing events (Watkins Glen I think) that I really fell in love with the 63-64 Stingrays. I was quite young at the time maybe 8-9 but I remember Cobras, XKEs & Vettes. I remember a 63 Coupe passing a Cobra on a straight away- on the shoulder, as the traffic was heavy, dust and gravel flying everywhere, that did it for me and my smoldering interest in Vettes burst into flames. But honestly I remember the Cobras usually beating the Vettes in road racing events at this time.

 

[Boogieman]

In the early to mid 60's, a friend's DAD had a 289 COBRA that we used to cruise in. Great car. In the mid 60's, another guy from high-school, ordered a 427 COBRA(rich DADDY) for street use. After waiting several months the car arrived. He refused to accept the car because it didn't have a radio, and no side windows, only snap in curtains. He promptly went to the Chevy dealer and purchased a '67 435HP-427 Vette Roadster, 4-speed, Green/Tan, beautiful car. Needless to say , he was "THE MAN" with the local gear-heads.
Another friend from high-school, and his hot sister, were from a famile that owned an import car dealership. Coming back to school after the Christmas break in '65 they came into the parking lot in their opposite matching AVANTI'S. His was RED/White, R-3 supercharged, hers was WHITE/RED R-1 carburated . Both fully loaded They created quite a spectacle.
In '64 another high-school buddy whose Dad owned a salvage yard, was lucky enough to purchase a '63 SWC, FI, 4-speed, Silver/black, etc. We used to cruise the area on Saturday nights. He was never beeten in a street race when I was with him. The next year, while cruising, a lady bumped into us on the street, hitting the R/R corner. The bumper was pushed into the body.The fiberglass cracked over to the center of the car, and up the rear window split to the roof . Another crack went forward over the wheel opening to the door opening. He had the repairs done, couldn't afford the increased insurance rates and sold the car.
I could go on for hours as I grew-up in the era of factoty muscle cars. Most of my friends owned one brand or another, so I got to be around most of the best the factories had to offer.
Thanks for the opportunity to re-live some of those good times.

 

[Ol Blue]

Well, a very interesting thread that does indeed bring back the "ol days" I too grew up with street racing in the 50's and 60's, uhhhh, and 70's.

In Monticello Indiana, home of Indiana Beach, there were always new guys coming to town for the resort, and that always led to drag racing out on highway 39. A straight, but hilly road for miles and miles. Like mentioned earlier, as soon as a couple of cars left the drive-in's, (Log Cabin or Spot) everyone would head out to watch the drags. This was in mid to late 50's and no police EVER came to bother anyone. Sometime there would be several rows of cars lined up one after another to drag. After the first two would get out aways, then the next two would take off, then the next two. Unsafe? You bet, but never any wrecks, oh well, except for a couple of brothers.

One was racing his 61 Chevy 348 convert against a 64 Chevy 348 Biscayne and after a couple of runs they were sitting in the road getting ready to race again when the second brother came over the hill in his 63 340hp Vette at high speed. He sideswiped his brothers car, but luckily no one was injured, but it sure was hard for them to explain it to their insurance company.

All that easy draggin came to a close when the State Cops started using Plymouths in 1960. They were dead fast on top end and not easy to outrun, especially when there were so many easy targets. The drag racing continued, but not as outragously open and blatant.

It's hard to say what the fastest car was, because on the street it was cheat, cheat off the line. The king of the Bunker Hill drag strip for awhile was a Dodge 426 pushbutton, but then a guy from Lafayette In. had a 63 Sebring Silver convert Vette with 4.56 gears that took over and held the King of Bunker Hill for a long time. I don't remember their times, but my cousins 63 Vette with 340hp and 4.56 gears and Atlas Bucron tires turned a 12.87, and they were faster than him.

My car at last drag race in Bowling Green KY turned 13.7 and 104mph and I had to shift at 4700rpm due to a bad miss. Not too bad for an old car, but nowhere as fast as my Son's ZR-1 or Z06, both of which turn in the low 12's. Darn I HATE that!!!

Back to the original question about how fast Cobras were compared to Vettes. There was an article in one of the ZR-1 newsletters that a guy from Calif. that wrote that he had two Corvettes that were never beaten by a Cobra on the drag strips, even the 427. His cars won A sport class in 63,64 and 65. His 63 FI car turned 12.22 at 115mph, and in 1965 his 65 turned 11.53 at 122.36. It was bored out to 332 cubic inches. I never tried to verify that, but that's very FASSST back in those days. Heck, thats fast these days.
Like others, I've gotta million stories. Thanks for reminding me of them.
Ol Blue
And all the Jag could see.......http://www.hayco.ca/images/usa1.jpg

 

[1KULC7]

Somebody should capture these stories and do a book of the muscle cars from the owners perspective...getting these stories is like recording history.

 

[srthom13]

No power steering, no air, no power brakes, AM radio, 8 track under the dash, wide oval red line tires, STP sticker in window, Sunoco 260 , posi rear, marlboro cigarettes are we all the same or what. The one and only original muscle car era -- The Sixites. My first ride was a 1966 red with black vinyl top GTO. It had a 389 and 3 two barrel carbs. I believe it had 335 hp, a two speed powerglide trans and a 4:33 posi rear. It smoked those 14 inch wide oval tires. Had good 1/8 mile times and was hard to beat at the light. Never did see any cobras , the BB vettes were also few and far between. Picked up my current ride ( 66 427-425 ) in 1974. Been through alot with it , kicked alot ass and will probably be buried in it. Anybody remember the Hi Karate cologne? Steve

 

[1KULC7]

Hi Karate...heck English Leather and Canoe....remember 007 Calone.

 

[Boogieman]

I still wear English Leather and Canoe!
Had some additional thoughts on the '60's, '70's cars. I owned, among others, a '62 Plymouth Sport Fury HT, several big block '63-'64-'65 Plymouth and Dodge full size tire smokers, '67-'68-'69 Camaro Rally Sports(one each), a 350 horse '56 Chevy 210 2-door sedan- 4 speed, A '65 4-4-2 4 speed HT (very fast car), a '68 R/T Charger (the first of 2), a '68 Coronet R/T, a '67 Buick Gran Sport 400 HT,a '70 Cuda 383 auto., a '69-1/2 6-Pack Superbee, and a new (the first of 2) '70 Olds Rally 350 HT. My friends owned a '67 Black/Black Hemi 4 speed Charger, another had a '70 Hemi 4 speed Superbee, another a '68 383 4 speed Road Runner, another had a '68 396-375 HP 4 speed El Camino , and yet another had a '61 Pontiac Super Duty Catalina Sedan 2 door with a built 421 and 4 speed. He flipped the pontiac in the alley behind my house one Saturday night while running from the police after getting caught street racing. He power slid around the turn-in, clipped a telephone pole guide wire with the right front wheel, ran up the wire about 8', which dumped the car upside down between the pole and our 6' wooden fence. I could go on, but I guess I've rambled on enough for now.

 

[srthom13]

Boogieman, You were quite fortunate to enjoy all those muscle car rides,I bet you wish you had them now. A close friend had a 426 hemi charger, what a beast. I won $5. when I beat a 421 2+2 Catilina with my GTO. I use to listen to Randy and the Rainbows sing " Little GTO " over and over. ( still have the 45 ) The green bottle of Brute cologne was another. Those were the days, cubic inches, Boone's Farm Apple wine, drive in movies and of course beer. Let's not forget the Beach Boys. Damn , were we lucky. Steve

 

[Boogieman]

Oh yeah, I remember it all well. It was a great time to be a gear-head. We used to cruise the local dealer's lots at new car time to see what was available. As a senior in high-school in '66, I went to see the new '67 Corvette. I could sit in it, but not test drive. I almost bought one for about $4,500, but my Dad promised me the '67 Gran Sport 400 if I would go to college. I did and he did.
Almost forgot the local '64 289-271HP 4 speed Falcon HT, '65 Mustang GT 2+2 that my buddy Randy owned, the '66 Formula "S" Barracuda 273 4 speed, and my friend's Dads' '66 Nova SS HT. We were out cruising late one night, driving too fast, hit a railroad crossing too fast, got airborn, landed nose first, and bent the subframe which pushed the hood and fenders into the cowl and doors. We had to drive it back to his house to get out of the car. We caught much grief over that. Insurance repaired the car but we were never allowed to "borrow" it again. In the fall of '68 he ordered a Z-28. What a great car that was. I could write a book, but I doubt many would be interested in my ramblings-on. This forum however is a semi-captive audience!

 

[wiscane]

There seem to be some people here who were around back in the "day". Back then, in real life, how did the 427's fair against the cobra's? Were there any other cars that would give the vette a run for it's money? Most would agree, as do I, that the vette was the best all around package, but I'm talking light to light and bragging rights. Let's drive down memory lane. Classic

I lived in the Northwest suburbs of Chicago. I saw one Cobra in Barrington Illinois. He wouldn't race me or anyone else! He kept telling everyone how fast he was and we weren't worth his time... and the little money we had. At the time I had a 440 Dart from Mr. Norm. I think it would have been an interesting race. Oh well!

 

[sherry_ridgeway]

Hiee all
most of the cars I've seen "back in the day" "wink" were mostly challengers and 340 dusters with a few gto's and firebirds "rockford files cars"..the cuda's had a nice run as far as popularity and style but ..HEY the corvette ALWAYS ROCKED AND STILL DOES...
sherry

 

[drags1998]

We had a couple of cobra's around,I was quite young at the time,but I do remember seeing them around once or twice. Some of my older friends tell me that the big block was BLOWED UP more than it was running!! One of my fastest (and quickest) rides was in a 66 L79 Chevy II 327-365HP 4sp.3.55 WHAT A FUN & FAST LITTLE RIDE!!!!! NEVER should of sold THAT ONE!!!!!! :cry

 

[BruceBed]

I lived in the Northwest suburbs of Chicago. I saw one Cobra in Barrington Illinois. He wouldn't race me or anyone else! He kept telling everyone how fast he was and we weren't worth his time... and the little money we had. At the time I had a 440 Dart from Mr. Norm. I think it would have been an interesting race. Oh well!

My neighbor had a 66 GT mustang and one day were cruising in it and he pointed out a Cobra to me. I thougt it looked like a bathtub with a skunk stripe. He told me that was one of the badest cars around. I've never seen a real one since. That was 36 years ago.

 

[Verle]

Racing days of the 60's! Tulsa, Oklahoma

I had a 55 Chevy 2 dr HT painted black, almost like "American Grafitti".

301 (283 bored .125), 202 heads, Fuel Injection, roller cam, custom long tube fender well headers, close ratio 4-speed, 4.88 positrac. Shifted at 7500 if I was really serious. My only transportation so it was driven daily on the street. I was never beaten in a street race. Of course I knew most of the local cars so I knew when to pass. I did beat 427 Fords, 383 and 440 Mopars, all small block Fords, most Big Block Chevelles. I did get my doors blown off by a 65 Z16 Chevelle. It disappeared like a dropped rock.

A friend had a 55 Ford with a 427 Crate Motor. It was fast. You didn't want to be beside him when he took off, It would not go straight.

Another friend had a 64 Corvette FI Coupe. The engine had been reworked. I never saw it beaten and he would race anything, BB Chevys, BB Mopars, anything.

I never saw a Cobra on the street. There were a couple around but they never played in our back yard.

Someone asked about a Cheetah. I had the good fortune to work on a real Cheetah a few years ago. A real "barn find". Only about 30 or so built in 62, 63 and 64 so were very rare even then.

I bought a 65 Chevelle new, L79, bench seat 4 speed. It was a nice car, pretty fast and, with a few mods, handled quite well. Still have the car.

Lots of good memories.

Verle

 

[Verle]

Better pictures I hope.