Super Ram 383 Project not so good !

[billyray]

It seems that everything that could go wrong did. Started the car, the fuel pressure was at 25, I moved it to 45, timing was a mess. I had to turn the distributor so far that the cap, where the electronics plug in, hit the manifold, then I moved all the wires over one and spun it back to get to about 6 degrees of timing at idle, it idles like crap at a .54 volt TPS reading, I moved it to the stock .46 volt reading still crap, I moved it to .33 reading runs ok there. can't find the wire for the knock sensor, I never cut it off but can't find it either, where does it originate from under th hood? temp runs hot, fan on at 235 and off at 225 I think. The timing is all over the place when running, not sure why, maybe because the knock sensor is missing, I read in a book somewhere that the knock sensor will start screwing things up over 194 degrees. the trans is another story I bled the hyro clutch 5 times and the trans still will not shift easily, the trans is rotating somewhat at idle with the clutch in. gears 1 through 4 wont go in unless I jamb them and reverse grinds untill i jamb it in gear, then no problems, the car doesnt take off or anything but its like the pressure plate is not disengaging the clutch fully. I am ready to pack it up at take it to a vette shop, I am calling there now, the car has the best of me!

 

[Moonunit 451]

Unless you are made of money, that probably is notthe way to go. Be patient and you will get some help here. Exactly what work did you do yourself? I have never gotten this straight, is the 85 TPI or crossfire?

If someone doesn't chime in soon I'll figure out where the knock sensor wire originates. I don't recall, but if it's the same as my 86 I'll find it. There are several people here, including myself that have 383 SR that we did ourselves.

We will need some more info if you want help. Have you had a chip burned for your mods? Do you have any vacuum leaks? Could you have gotten your distributor in a tooth off, just for a few.

Let's give it a chance before you go off spending big bucks for some thing that, with patience, you can fix, and learn more about your car at the same time.

 

[vetteboy86]

I dont see how the knock sensor could contribute to the idle issue. When I did my motor I replaced it to be safe. It does however control the timing somewhat.


As far as Idle, I would say you have a major vacuum leak. Just go over your steps. I will most likely try to trace that knock sensor wire for you, if you do not get a response soon. The fans are typical operating temps for the 85.

Just what exactly did you all do?

 

[Vettefan87]

85's are TPI's Colin. I am starting to think that a Superram might not be the way to go on an intake setup. Why are there so many problems/challenges with these?

 

[MPoore]

Slow down and fix one problem at a time.

First make sure your timing is correct. To set base timing, you need to disconnect the EST. There is a plug near the master cylinder that you disconnect. I believe both GM and Haynes manuals will show you where to look.

The knock sensor should be right in front of the starter on the engine block. The connector looks exactly like the connector for the fan switch on the right side head. The wire is in or near the harness that runs by the heater box. If the wire is missing, you can splice in a new wire, which I believe runs directly to the EST module above the washer fluid tank. If you disconnect the EST wire described above, you will set a hard code that will cause timing default to the prom settings. This could be good for you because it will remain at a fixed advance while idling, which will allow you to do other troubleshooting.

Once timing is correct, you need to set minumum idle. There is a procedure for that I can lookup, if you don't have the info. Next, there is a procedure to calibrate the IAC. I can find that for you also, if necessary.

Since you may be flowing a lot more air at idle than the prom can handle, you might want to turn the fuel pressure up to 55 temporarily. You may also need to dust off your vacuum gauge to check for assembly problems.

Once you have made adjustments and the engine will idle decently, clear the trouble codes and see if it saves any new codes.

MAF systems are very adaptable to modifications and you should be able to get a good idle and decent performance without changing the prom. To maximize performance, you will need a new prom.

 

[MPoore]

the trans is another story I bled the hyro clutch 5 times and the trans still will not shift easily, the trans is rotating somewhat at idle with the clutch in. gears 1 through 4 wont go in unless I jamb them and reverse grinds untill i jamb it in gear, then no problems, the car doesnt take off or anything but its like the pressure plate is not disengaging the clutch fully.

I think you may have installed the clutch fork incorrectly. Sounds like the clutch isn't moving far enough. Did you put it in that grove on the throw out bearing?

 

[vetteboy86]

My only concern was that he went to a new intake setup, which may lead me to believe he has a major vacuum leak that will inhibit idle. I know when I swapped out a plenum, I coudln't ge thte gaskets to seat right, and the car wouldn't idle at all.

 

[MPoore]

You may be right about the vacuum leak. Intakes are tricky to seal.

Since we know the knock sensor is unplugged and timing is probably wrong, he needs to get the timing issues and EST fixed first. Not that a vacuum leak isn't important, but it would help diagnosis to first fix the stuff you know is wrong.

I have a feeling the intake is coming off along with the transmission.

 

[Moonunit 451]

You may be right about the vacuum leak. Intakes are tricky to seal.

Since we know the knock sensor is unplugged and timing is probably wrong, he needs to get the timing issues and EST fixed first. Not that a vacuum leak isn't important, but it would help diagnosis to first fix the stuff you know is wrong.

I have a feeling the intake is coming off along with the transmission.

I would agree, Justin, the problem with the SR is that it is very complicated and time consuming to install and and seal. One mistake can take you all the way back down to the intake again.

It's a PITA. I was most fortunate that a felow forum member who had done it many times volunteered to come to my home to guide and assist me. I've never had a lick of trouble, but I'd have been a nightmare story going on for days without him.

I hope billyray pops back in for help

 

[billyray]

answers to your helpful questions.

I have not had a chip burned yet as the set up I used was from the internet, one that was done before by a guy, so I followed his directions and part numbers. He said a chip would help but not needed to get the car running great.IT is an 85 TPI. I cannot find the knock snesor wire but thought I had disconnected it, I guess not. I dis find 2 wires coming out underneat the heaterbox area. Not sure what they are for yet. would having the distributor off a tooth make any difference as long as I was able to turn the cap to the proper position? It is idleing about 4 degrees advanced right now. You should be able to put the distributor in anywhere as long as the cap is lined up right. correct? here is the site where I got all my info. http://www.corvettefever.com/techarticles/18459/
How can I effectively and easily check for vacuume leaks? I am also not sure if all the vacuum connections on the throttle body are correct? I have one on the bottom, a small one going to the vacuum cannister in the drivers front fender. on the passenger side I have the small lower one going to the PCV valve on the drivers sdie and the upper larger one going to a breather on the passenger side valve cover.

Unless you are made of money, that probably is notthe way to go. Be patient and you will get some help here. Exactly what work did you do yourself? I have never gotten this straight, is the 85 TPI or crossfire?

If someone doesn't chime in soon I'll figure out where the knock sensor wire originates. I don't recall, but if it's the same as my 86 I'll find it. There are several people here, including myself that have 383 SR that we did ourselves.

We will need some more info if you want help. Have you had a chip burned for your mods? Do you have any vacuum leaks? Could you have gotten your distributor in a tooth off, just for a few.

Let's give it a chance before you go off spending big bucks for some thing that, with patience, you can fix, and learn more about your car at the same time.

 

[billyray]

Answers to all your helpful questions.

How do I easily check for vacuum leaks effectively. I read somewhere that the knock sensor will affect the timing after the water temp is above 194 degrees.
http://www.corvettefever.com/techarticles/18459/ is the site where I got all my information, wish I would have come here first, there is no way I can take that manifold off and reset it any better that I did already. Speed-O-Motive in West Covina Cal did the motor and the manifold and the runners. I would think that they would do a good job on that since they have been in the business for 100s of years. all I did was the plenum box and the cover, which was a real pain in the Ass. but it felt like it went on right.

I dont see how the knock sensor could contribute to the idle issue. When I did my motor I replaced it to be safe. It does however control the timing somewhat.


As far as Idle, I would say you have a major vacuum leak. Just go over your steps. I will most likely try to trace that knock sensor wire for you, if you do not get a response soon. The fans are typical operating temps for the 85.

Just what exactly did you all do?

 

[billyray]

answers to your helpful questions.

I will find out what and where the EST is and does. I will try to find the procedure to set the IAC calibration. I beleive the minimum idkle procedure was to go about .54volts on the TPS which I did and no go, then I wnt to factory spec .46 volts and no go, accidentally went to .33 and it runs. How do you test for vacuum leaks effectively and accurately? What is the best code reader for this application reading and resetting codes? part numbers and where to buy it. Also I am not sure if the engine shop set all the rocker arms, I beleive that they did when I was turning the engine over by hand I was checking them.

Slow down and fix one problem at a time.

First make sure your timing is correct. To set base timing, you need to disconnect the EST. There is a plug near the master cylinder that you disconnect. I believe both GM and Haynes manuals will show you where to look.

The knock sensor should be right in front of the starter on the engine block. The connector looks exactly like the connector for the fan switch on the right side head. The wire is in or near the harness that runs by the heater box. If the wire is missing, you can splice in a new wire, which I believe runs directly to the EST module above the washer fluid tank. If you disconnect the EST wire described above, you will set a hard code that will cause timing default to the prom settings. This could be good for you because it will remain at a fixed advance while idling, which will allow you to do other troubleshooting.

Once timing is correct, you need to set minumum idle. There is a procedure for that I can lookup, if you don't have the info. Next, there is a procedure to calibrate the IAC. I can find that for you also, if necessary.

Since you may be flowing a lot more air at idle than the prom can handle, you might want to turn the fuel pressure up to 55 temporarily. You may also need to dust off your vacuum gauge to check for assembly problems.

Once you have made adjustments and the engine will idle decently, clear the trouble codes and see if it saves any new codes.

MAF systems are very adaptable to modifications and you should be able to get a good idle and decent performance without changing the prom. To maximize performance, you will need a new prom.

 

[billyray]

The clutch problem

Yes the fork is locked into the groove on the throwout bearing with the small spring clips.

I think you may have installed the clutch fork incorrectly. Sounds like the clutch isn't moving far enough. Did you put it in that grove on the throw out bearing?

 

[billyray]

removing the intake an trans

I could do it again but I was very very cautious about what I was doing in there for fear of having to do it again. I don't think I would do anything differently if I were to do it again so I would hope a corvette shop could do it for me. The engine seemed to run good for a while before it really got up to full temp, then it was a mess. I though several times I heard a popping sound inside the manifold like many pops in a row at the same time, like all the intake valves were open during the firing process. But only at certain times.

You may be right about the vacuum leak. Intakes are tricky to seal.

Since we know the knock sensor is unplugged and timing is probably wrong, he needs to get the timing issues and EST fixed first. Not that a vacuum leak isn't important, but it would help diagnosis to first fix the stuff you know is wrong.

I have a feeling the intake is coming off along with the transmission.

 

[billyray]

By the way all my EGR equipment

has been pulled off.

 

[vetteboy86]

OKay, listen very closely. I replaced the plenum on my 86, with one I ported. I put new gaskets on, and was very careful about what I was doing. This is a stock plenum mind you.

I put the ported one on, and I could hear a hissing noise. The car would not idle at all. I am not kidding, it wouldn't run under 1500 RPM's. I took that plenum off, and put the old one back on the same way. The problem was gone, and everything went back to normal.

The only reason I suggested the vacuum leak, is because your car runs, so the timing could be off, but not way off I wouldn't think. To check for a vacuum leak, take some starting fluid. Not to much, but just spray a little around some gasket areas. DONT GO CRAZY THOUGH :cry because you dont want a fire and cry. If you spray short bursts at areas, and if the idle changes then you have a vacuum leak.

Are you throwing any codes like the EST CODE. I think the base timing to get the car running is around 8 degrees or so. That is what we initially set mine to.

 

[Vettefan87]

I would agree, Justin, the problem with the SR is that it is very complicated and time consuming to install and and seal. One mistake can take you all the way back down to the intake again.

It's a PITA. I was most fortunate that a felow forum member who had done it many times volunteered to come to my home to guide and assist me. I've never had a lick of trouble, but I'd have been a nightmare story going on for days without him.

I hope billyray pops back in for help

So when I get ready to do mine can I get ya a plane ticket out here??? :L

 

[MPoore]

The ESC module is located on the RH side of the heater blower motor. Terminal "D" runs directly to the knock sensor. It is a blue wire. Trace it from the ESC module and see what happened to it. The ESC module and knock sensor are about 24" apart, so this shouldn't be difficult.

Vetteboy's vacuum leak advice sounds good, but I would use propane. It's not nearly as explosive.

The vacuum gauge is an invaluable tool to troubleshoot mechanical problems. If you don't have one, go buy it. They usually come with an instruction book that will explain what various readings mean.

Don't be overly confident in the engine work because a "Corvette Shop" did it. A lot can go wrong in engine assembly and Super Rams are not something they see every day. As Ronald Reagan said, "Trust, but verify."

You can access stored trouble codes with a paper clip. It is a very easy procedure on an 85. I am going to assume that since you didn't know this you probably don't have a shop manual. You really need a manual. I highly recommend the GM manual, which can still be purchased through a third party publisher. The GM manual gives far greater detail than Haynes. You have no business working on your car without one. In the mean time, do a google search on "ALDL trouble codes" and you should find instructions and a chart to tell you what the codes mean. Autozone used to have a free book with the same info.

Lastly, if the EGR is removed, you will have to get a new prom to prevent trouble codes.

 

[vetteboy86]

As odd as this may sound, I removed the EGR on my car, and I have not thrown the EGR code yet.

The vacuum guage is also a good idea. You can get very good information just by how the needle reacts when the engine is running.

 

[billyray]

I will follow up on this help asap

I will try ebay for a manual first and will do the search on google for the ALDL trouble codes. Thanks much

The ESC module is located on the RH side of the heater blower motor. Terminal "D" runs directly to the knock sensor. It is a blue wire. Trace it from the ESC module and see what happened to it. The ESC module and knock sensor are about 24" apart, so this shouldn't be difficult.

Vetteboy's vacuum leak advice sounds good, but I would use propane. It's not nearly as explosive.

The vacuum gauge is an invaluable tool to troubleshoot mechanical problems. If you don't have one, go buy it. They usually come with an instruction book that will explain what various readings mean.

Don't be overly confident in the engine work because a "Corvette Shop" did it. A lot can go wrong in engine assembly and Super Rams are not something they see every day. As Ronald Reagan said, "Trust, but verify."

You can access stored trouble codes with a paper clip. It is a very easy procedure on an 85. I am going to assume that since you didn't know this you probably don't have a shop manual. You really need a manual. I highly recommend the GM manual, which can still be purchased through a third party publisher. The GM manual gives far greater detail than Haynes. You have no business working on your car without one. In the mean time, do a google search on "ALDL trouble codes" and you should find instructions and a chart to tell you what the codes mean. Autozone used to have a free book with the same info.

Lastly, if the EGR is removed, you will have to get a new prom to prevent trouble codes.