Suspension Improvment

[inferno-vette]

Guys, now I want to put on something better for the suspension, the bushings work like wonders but they only give more feeling and sturdiness. Now I've herd good and bad about vettebrakes, and mid america suspension kits, now what do you think about these kits, and what else is out there? I'm looking for extreme performance, not confort, I don't drive my vette every day so I don't care about confort. Also what do you have to say about coilovers? I'm really considering coilovers, what do you think?
Thanks, Paul

 

[400hp_76]

Inferno,

The kit that mid america is by VBP(vettebrakes). Coilovers are really good, but i think that the monospring must be doing something right if it is in all the new vettes(and the new vettes are puttin out some #'s). I also dont care about ride quality. I just want my vette to handle like a freak. For our year vettes the vette brakes performance plus suspension system looks to be the route to take. Now that is just my opinion. there may be some other suspension kit out there , but I havnt seen it.

 

[tacoed]

I told you so

Hey didn't I suggest this several post ago?? You really do play ball at south..

 

[inferno-vette]

Re: I told you so

Hey didn't I suggest this several post ago?? You really do play ball at south..

???????????:confused What did you posted????

 

[400hp_76]

HEY TACOED

Yeah you told me about vbp so i looked into it. much appreciated info. and yep i do play ball at south.

 

[inferno-vette]

The mono might be a good "thing" but I can't see any race car with it! And it's too expensive compared to a coilover conversion!

 

[tacoed]

Glad to help

No worry's mate

now please drive down to Judges( judge roy beans ) pet the goat feed the fat cat, and drink a Guinness for me!! I plan to order my MONO kit in a few weeks also.

 

[jsimpson]

I didn't like the poly bushings. They rattled my teeth and split within a year. I put new rubber bushings in and it rides great.

 

[Hijinx]

Lots of great info already on this post, I can only add one thing. I just had (about a month ago) the VPB Grand Touring Plus package and poly bushings (front end rebuild kit) installed on my '72. The setup is very stiff, but handles like a dream. The thing that stiffened it up so substantially were the Bilstein shocks. Major difference between them and the KYB's I had been running. I know, because I had already put in the 330lb rear fiber spring and KYB shocks. Therefore, I had VBP pull that out of the package ahe only changes the VBP package makes to the rear is the spring, the shocks and the adjuster rods. The back end is where I noticed the roughness. The stiffer front springs I only notice over major bumps.

I like the package, but you have to take one very important thing into consideration that Chris touched on. Stiffening your Vette up a bunch can cause some body stress fractures. More importantly, it can stress the frame to the point of cracking as well in an older car. Your taking a 20+ year old rusted frame and asking it to handle a brand new, state of the art suspension that it was not designed to handle. So, I know this is something that I plan on keeping an eye on. At least until I rebuild the frame (if that ever happens).

I can tell you this. The thing carves the road now. Interestingly enough, straight line highway, high speed driving is a bit more unsetteling. You get very accurate direct feedback that the old suspension masked. However, corrections are much easier and not nearly as scary.

Food for thought

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Guys, now I want to put on something better for the suspension, the bushings work like wonders but they only give more feeling and sturdiness. Now I've herd good and bad about vettebrakes, and mid america suspension kits, now what do you think about these kits, and what else is out there? I'm looking for extreme performance, not confort, I don't drive my vette every day so I don't care about confort. Also what do you have to say about coilovers? I'm really considering coilovers, what do you think?
Thanks, Paul

Now I'm confused... on that other forum (can I name it here??) you were all over me because you said I was wrong about the steering and handling of the C3 and now you're here looking to improve it.. I'm at a loss here!

I do have an idea for you (I'm doing the same thing)

Get your hands on a C4 (super)Dana44. The dane w/ the carrier will bolt on to your frame (80-82 only!). You will only have to fabricate a mounting ear for the lower mounting point to the frame (or use a torque arm to your ZF, I have a ZF6 too!)

Then you can weld the dog bone brackets to the frame and you're done. I'm also chopping up the front of my frame and am going to weld in the front section of a C4 frame. That will solve most of your problems (use heim joints on all the tie rods instead of the rubber bushings!)

Marck

 

[Hijinx]

Hey, Twinnie, are you actually driving that exotic cross ram, dual turbo setup yet? I've seen pictures of it on an engine stand, but have not heard about how streetable the setup is. Seems like all those little carbs would be a real pain to get setup.

 

[Twin_Turbo]

No it's still on the stand.. the car to put it in is in pieces.

It will be very far from streetable but who cares

The carbs are a major pain to synch but I have flowmeters, O2 sensors, pyrometers and such to aid in tuning that thing.

Marck

 

[69MyWay]

pyrometers

Marck

Say this with your best Beavis and Butthead voice!

Fire, fire, fire, he,he,he......


I need a pyrometer!

 

[Hijinx]

You gotta have that Chris, cause you know its gonna be one fire breathin beast when it in. I get scared just lookin at the pictures!
:j

 

[inferno-vette]

Now I'm confused... on that other forum (can I name it here??) you were all over me because you said I was wrong about the steering and handling of the C3 and now you're here looking to improve it.. I'm at a loss here!
Marck

No no, the car handles great! I just want to improve it even more! I want to race it, so I want the best I can get. If you read the 1st post I said that I had lost in handling with a 99' Cobra!!!
The car still handles very good, no point in saying so, but I just want better.

I remember that you said that your steering wasn't good, mine wasn't either when I got it, what I did was to put in a C4 rack and pinion type, it has much better control and feeling.

Paul

 

[Twin_Turbo]

Well, on the other forum I meant for racing too! That's all i do w/ my car.

My steering is actually pretty sharp for a recirculating ball system. I rebuilt it some time ago and it worked good but not for racing.

What R&P do you have? The steeroids one? You say C4 rack & pinion type and the C4 uses front steer, the steeroids thing rear steer. I don't really like the steeroids system but that's just me.

I've been wondering how easy it'd be to just mount the steering brackets on the spindles in such a way that they stick out to the front instead of the rear (swap left & right, it fits!) Then you could mount the C4 front steer rack.

Do you have pics?

I'm just wondering, I think I'm gonna do the C4 susp. all the way but maybe I could do it for a buddy.. if it works it sure would be a nice solution. The steering is what makes the handling a little poor, w/ coil overs the stock susp. can actually be made to perform remarkably well (I've seen cars w/ stock setups & coil overs in the spring pockets!) The only drawback is that yoú'll still have a lot of unsprung weight. Each 10lbs of unsprung weight reduction equals about 140lbs in sprung weight loss (in handling).. this is a bit of a rough rule of thumb but it gives the general idea why the C4 susp is desireable.

Marck

 

[inferno-vette]

Mark, my R&P came off a salvaged 87 convert, and it's easy to install.
About the unsprung weight I don't knew that it was that much.
Paul

 

[Twin_Turbo]

INTESTING!

I have access to a lot of C4 racks.. so how did you install it? by switching the 2 steering brackets?? (like described above)???

I'm very interested in this.. do you have pics?

Thanks,

Marck

 

[inferno-vette]

Yep, I can take a few pics. Dont have any pics from the instalation though. There is also a kit available to change to a R&P I think VBP??? or Corvette Central??? can't remember! It costs around $1K...

 

[sandman]

going it deeper in the turns....

try going to SCCA Autocrosses.... pick up some pointers from the guys that are fastest in their class.... B-stock and A-stock... would be the one you would want to talk to the most.

I just can not believe that a mustang corbra could get you that badly in the turns... it really is alot about bieng smooth... and knowing how the car (your vette) feels as you wear it...

I find that if I over break just a little before I get to the turn I can squeeze on the throttle as I pass thur the apex and hold much more speed as I exit...

done this in the 1990 ZR1 and the 1993 40th anv.
I have a nice 75 right 65 left 65 right switch back on ramp on the way to work every morning... the last turn is off camber to make it even more fun... ( I see too many SUVs' and pickup off-road there when it rains...)